Paul Mariner end march

[Oldtimer]

So now the time of the great "tweak" is on the down-stretch, and Paul Mariner has some difficult games ahead:

Columbus (predict tie)
Houston (loss)
Santos Laguna (loss)
Sporting KC (loss)
Chicago (loss)
Philadelphia (win)
LA (loss)

I don't think he will pull off a winning record by the end of this string of games. Other teams have seen his tactics, and adjusted their strategies accordingly. I believe that we are seeing the last games that Paul Mariner will be in charge of this team. The great question is, when will he be fired (or re-assigned)? Just before season ticket renewals? At the end of the season? Some time in the off-season?

[iy12l]

I wonder if Mariner was also to blame for the 0-9 record of Winter. Wasn't he responsible for the signings? If he was then hes the jackass who brought Iro, Aceval, Caicedo, and Griffit. The FO doesn't know shit about signing a proper manager and technical staff. Everyone should boycott one of the home games this season so ML$E will start to get worried for once.

[starter]

I wonder if Bogers/MLSE will engage Klinsmann again?

[iy12l]

Lol type "worst team in the world" in the Google search bar and and 8 out of the first 10 are TFC related.

[jazzy]

I like the idea of boycotting 1 game

[gate7]

I like the idea of boycotting 1 game

easy for me to do since no one that i know wants to attend the games i cant anymore..

[Super]

I like the idea of boycotting 1 game

This is already in effect. Stadium is so empty it sends a massive message to MLSE.

[Shakes McQueen]

Lol type "worst team in the world" in the Google search bar and and 8 out of the first 10 are TFC related.

Well yeah, because all of the stories that comes to the top are about the specific Koevermans quote where he said that.

TFC may be a total managerial mess, and may very well be the worst team in MLS, but the worst team in the world? I highly doubt it. That's just our own local familiarity bias talking.

- Scott

[Dv23]

This is already in effect. Stadium is so empty it sends a massive message to MLSE.

But...But.... they always announce that we have 18,000 per game! Surely they must be telling the truth.

[ag futbol]

Well yeah, because all of the stories that comes to the top are about the specific Koevermans quote where he said that.

TFC may be a total managerial mess, and may very well be the worst team in MLS, but the worst team in the world? I highly doubt it. That's just our own local familiarity bias talking.

- Scott

Also worth noting that google searches can be biased by what you search in the past or by your I.P. address.

This is already in effect. Stadium is so empty it sends a massive message to MLSE.

You never know how that plays out in practice. For the willfully blind, like OTPP, they may very well have the wool pulled over their eyes by management types saying things like "initial hype has run out", "fans to finicky to accept MLS soccer", or statements like Anselmi made at the Mariner presser about being in charge but pleading ignorance for responsibility for the on-field product...

But overall, I do agree with you and hold out hope that Bogers will take a look at the massive turd these guys have served up and realize that some major changes are needed around here. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that we have more problems than simply who the head coach is.

[prizby]

really...so we are going to just keep firing away...when are we going to give a manager the proper amount of time to build the roster and the managers style into a decent MLS team...8 of the 10 managers that are sitting in a playoff spot right now were managing their team in 2010.

[Greatest Ripoff]

when are we going to give a manager the proper amount of time to build the roster and the managers style into a decent MLS team

Is two years not long enough to to build a roster? When Mariner became the head coach he said the roster was good enough and only needed a tweak. That there had been too much change and the roster needed stability. And not look what he has done? Does he get another two years?

[khso11]

im not a fan of switching managers too often, but due to the pressure of some/most of the fans, they might probably fire him or make him some next level director bs with BDK. But idk who they will bring in since our reputation is soooo poor. Maybe Pep Guardiola.....im dreaming.

[ensco]

Lol type "worst team in the world" in the Google search bar and and 8 out of the first 10 are TFC related.

The worst team in world football the last 6 years has to be RC Strasbourg, relegated 4 times in 4 years, from Ligue Un in 2007-2008 right into amateur status. They are the only team with a longer losing streak than the 9 games we started with - they had an 11 gamer the year they went out of Ligue 2. Went bankrupt twice.

Supporters have never given up. But nobody else comes - they draw 2,000-3,000 in a beautiful stadium that seats 29,000. Bounced back to the fourth division this year.

These are sad times for Alsatian football - another former power, Metz, is in the third division. Hassli, in case you didn't know, is Alsatian.

Given no relegation, and the equalizing impact of the draft, we are pretty close second to that Strasbourg record of despair.

[Oldtimer]

That Strasbourg record is pretty appalling.

My own prediction depends on whether Anselmi is still in charge by year end. If he is, I think he will let Mariner go by the end of the year. If he isn't, and the new president of football is a Bogers appointee, then I would expect that a proper review will be taken, which might give Mariner another year. They would assume that his failure to achieve a good enough record may depend on several factors, not all necessarily in his control. They would want to investigate thoroughly.

[Pookie]

That Strasbourg record is pretty appalling.

My own prediction depends on whether Anselmi is still in charge by year end. If he is, I think he will let Mariner go by the end of the year. If he isn't, and the new president of football is a Bogers appointee, then I would expect that a proper review will be taken, which might give Mariner another year. They would assume that his failure to achieve a good enough record may depend on several factors, not all necessarily in his control. They would want to investigate thoroughly.

If Anselmi stays, I actually think a few wins will ensure that Mariner comes back next year.

For whatever reason, Mariner has well known media folks making excuses for him, singing his praises and spinning his record. Jason de Vos tends to highlight that he is a great coach to play for and that Mariner is inspiring the players in a way that Winter never could (despite CCL and end of 2011 season success... I added the last part).

Rongren (though obviously has a self preservation bias) is over the top with praise for their work ethic and was constantly reminding folks that we were actually "competitive" with SKC and a draw would be a good result.... despite the 3rd highest payroll in the league (I added that last part).

Larson in the Sun seems to be getting his info directly from Mariner and sometimes he was responsible for player acquisition and sometimes not.

A few wins would put the team in that category of "competitive for a playoff spot" that MLSE loves to spin. They could point to an improved record, key injuries that are hard to recover from and pull out the "what if book". I'm not sure that the average fan won't buy it.

Personally, I think it is moot when it comes to season ticket sales. Performance is one thing. Cost is something that I think most are realizing is now out of whack. While attendance is announced at 18,000+, clearly a good number of people ate the cost of their tickets this week and opted to not go or simply couldn't find someone to take them. How many hundreds of dollars are you prepared to throw away?

A price reset needs to be on the table for them to have any hope of salvaging a reasonable fan base.

[__wowza]

Is two years not long enough to to build a roster? When Mariner became the head coach he said the roster was good enough and only needed a tweak. That there had been too much change and the roster needed stability. And not look what he has done? Does he get another two years?

i'm just gonna to put this out there..

mariner was lying.

IE: he knew that he wasn't tell the truth. he was telling everyone what they wanted to hear in front of the press and his boss. could you imagine the questions he would get and the backlash if he said "well.. actually.. i'm not a fan of the 4-3-3, i'd like to do something else entirely. i'd like to do away with the players who don't fit the system, people like soolsma and plata, no need for 2 more forwards to weigh down the salary cap and sit on the bench"

we need to get over what he said. it's obvious that he knew what he was doing and what he said, so let's call a spade a spade.

[Canary10]

Mariner never should have been hired in the first place. I absolutely agree with what Prizby said, but the mistake was throwing out our tactical approach in hiring Mariner, and letting him walk in and blow out some decent pieces of our roster. That's where the reset happened. Correcting a wrong by keeping a guy who can't do the job doesn't correct the wrong, it just compounds it.

We're now down to 1.2 points per game under Mariner with some tough games ahead. We got our slight new manager bump, but just as it was with Plymouth Argyle when he coached there, it was a blip. We're now settling into a points per game that wouldn't make the playoffs. I hope Oldtimer is right, but I'm not so sure they will pull the plug. I hope there are looking around now, because if they do pull the plug a new manager would need to come in right at the end of the offseason to having any hope of success next year.

[Beach_Red]

That Strasbourg record is pretty appalling.

My own prediction depends on whether Anselmi is still in charge by year end. If he is, I think he will let Mariner go by the end of the year. If he isn't, and the new president of football is a Bogers appointee, then I would expect that a proper review will be taken, which might give Mariner another year. They would assume that his failure to achieve a good enough record may depend on several factors, not all necessarily in his control. They would want to investigate thoroughly.

"In charge" is always an open question with TFC. Anselmi admitted he needed board approval to replace Winter - likely because it meant paying out Winter's contract (and wasn't Preki still being paid out?) and there was probably a clause in Mariner's contract that if he took on more duties he got more money. So now firing Mariner would mean paying out the rest of his contract extension and paying a new manager (wow, how much would someone ask for to manage TFC? And what kind of terms and guarantees would they need to come here? Maybe that's why we never get anyone with experience) and didn't Anselmi also give Mo a contract extension that he had to pay out after firing him? How many times can Anselmi go to the board and ask for more money for TFC managers? If they'd put those board meetings on Gol, I might sign up for the channel...

[Canary10]

"In charge" is always an open question with TFC. Anselmi admitted he needed board approval to replace Winter - likely because it meant paying out Winter's contract (and wasn't Preki still being paid out?) and there was probably a clause in Mariner's contract that if he took on more duties he got more money. So now firing Mariner would mean paying out the rest of his contract extension and paying a new manager (wow, how much would someone ask for to manage TFC? And what kind of terms and guarantees would they need to come here? Maybe that's why we never get anyone with experience) and didn't Anselmi also give Mo a contract extension that he had to pay out after firing him? How many times can Anselmi go to the board and ask for more money for TFC managers? If they'd put those board meetings on Gol, I might sign up for the channel...

Ha! That's a very good question. That's why I tend to think we're going to be stuck with him.

[jaahuuu]

These are sad times for Alsatian football - another former power, Metz, is in the third division. Hassli, in case you didn't know, is Alsatian.

He played for Metz too, when they got relegated to Ligue 2 in 2002, and promoted back to Ligue 1 the next season.

[gate7]

I believe the good streak TFC had in July had nothing to do with Mariner taking over. Things had already turned around with Winter before Euro cup break... The problems here are not
at the coaching level. The coaching change was smoke in the air in order for Anselmi to stay off the radar. IMO!!

[[NBF]]

Im only assuming that when you guys say Bogers you mean Rogers as in Rogers Communications or you are referring to a man-like lizard that is the actual president of the team and pulling all the strings for MLSE. Just a guess.

I find it good to hear that Anselmi has to go to the board of MLSE to discuss why he's firing a head coach. Its good to know that he actually has a boss which means that he does not have immunity in any of this mess. Sadly this team under Tom Anselmi reminds me alot of the Matt Millen saga in Detroit, the only difference is that Millen was directly involved in the player acquisitions/drafts and Anselmi has avoided any blame for player transfers.

Detroit Lions went 0-16 in 2008 before he got the boot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Millen

[SirBobSaget]

Im only assuming that when you guys say Bogers you mean Rogers as in Rogers Communications or you are referring to a man-like lizard that is the actual president of the team and pulling all the strings for MLSE. Just a guess.

I find it good to hear that Anselmi has to go to the board of MLSE to discuss why he's firing a head coach. Its good to know that he actually has a boss which means that he does not have immunity in any of this mess. Sadly this team under Tom Anselmi reminds me alot of the Matt Millen saga in Detroit, the only difference is that Millen was directly involved in the player acquisitions/drafts and Anselmi has avoided any blame for player transfers.

Detroit Lions went 0-16 in 2008 before he got the boot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Millen

Bell + Rogers -> Bogers, the Lizard Man overlord of Canada's Telecom Monopoly and soon to be owner of MLSE

[ensco]

He played for Metz too, when they got relegated to Ligue 2 in 2002, and promoted back to Ligue 1 the next season.

Metz are (or were) the Ajax of French football. Ribery, Pires, Adebayor, Saha, all came through there. But they are a cautionary tale of how it can go wrong - they never reinvested the proceeds from selling players properly, and pissed their fan base off.

But of course everyone wants to talk about Ajax and no one wants to talk about Metz (or Villareal, or a bunch of other clubs that were fairly successful at the player development side of the model, but couldn't figure out the whole enchilada).

Developing youth is no panacea.

[brad]

I believe the good streak TFC had in July had nothing to do with Mariner taking over. Things had already turned around with Winter before Euro cup break... The problems here are not
at the coaching level. The coaching change was smoke in the air in order for Anselmi to stay off the radar. IMO!!

I believe the streak coincides with having a fit and in form Danny K banging goals every game.

[Whoop]

While Ribery played for Metz, he wasn't part of their youth academy.

And Villareal for a team from a city of 50,000 was pretty successful in La Liga. Villareal's problem, which is more of a La Liga issue, is that once it became successful it started overreaching it's boundaries. They had to in order to compete. Call it the Leeds disease. But 5-6 years, Villareal was one of the more successful La Liga teams, outside of the Barca/Real duopoly.

[Whoop]

I believe the streak coincides with having a fit and in form Danny K banging goals every game.

This.

Club's record without Danny Koevermans is 1W, 6L, 1D

[OgtheDim]

I doubt he will be let go during this season. I can see a change occurring in November. But given the past history of this club, I can also see it being January.

[ensco]

While Ribery played for Metz, he wasn't part of their youth academy.

And Villareal for a team from a city of 50,000 was pretty successful in La Liga. Villareal's problem, which is more of a La Liga issue, is that once it became successful it started overreaching it's boundaries. They had to in order to compete. Call it the Leeds disease. But 5-6 years, Villareal was one of the more successful La Liga teams, outside of the Barca/Real duopoly.

I know something about Metz. I really know little about Villareal, so I will leave that out, shouldn't have raised it.

Just because Ribery wasn't an Academy guy there doesn't matter - he went there because of its reputation in producing young players (he had issues and needed help realizing his potential). Metz has at least another 20 name guys that came through the system there. A lot of them left for nothing - I know that Metz screwed up the handling of both Saha and Adebayor and got almost nothing for them. Metz were/are famous for being hardasses with their young players, tons of them complained after leaving (sound familiar?).

They have a great fan base/culture, draw from a very large area. I can tell you for sure that the fan base there became very grumpy about the endless selling/shuffling of players. Attendance plummeted, they had to sell more players .... hello third division. Interestingly one of the major beneficiaries are the Metz basketball team, which is doing very well. Plus more people go to rugby, handball, even hockey. They have (or give themselves) more choices than we do.