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    Default Doesn't it bother you

    That after six years, and four of them not even close to playoff-level soccer, we're still relying on moral victories and "possibly improvements heading into next season" yet again? A draw with Portland is "okay" I guess. But we're still easily the worst team in MLS and that little run we had was just our usual unbeaten stretch surrounded by tons upon tons of froggy shit.

    Vancouver in two years is better than we've ever been at any point. Seattle has been a success from year one. Philly made the playoffs in year two. Montreal has some potential.

    And here we are possibly the worst team in MLS history struggling to compete with even mediocre competition like Portland. We doubled their road goal-scoring total for the season. What the fuck is that shit all about?

    I don't want excuses. I want a winning team. Not moral victories. And I see no sign of hope that it's coming. It really sucks.

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    Don't think a draw against portland is okay. We just tied against the second worst team in the league at home, and quite honestly we really controlled the match for about 20 minutes in the second half and that was it. Something that bothers me is that people still clap at the end of the game, as if to say that the result was good. Don't know about everyone else but i'm tired of the whole not winning thing, it's not much fun. So stop fucking clapping at the end of the matches if it's not a win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benficachop20 View Post
    Don't think a draw against portland is okay. We just tied against the second worst team in the league at home, and quite honestly we really controlled the match for about 20 minutes in the second half and that was it. Something that bothers me is that people still clap at the end of the game, as if to say that the result was good. Don't know about everyone else but i'm tired of the whole not winning thing, it's not much fun. So stop fucking clapping at the end of the matches if it's not a win.
    they are clapping maybe for the effort, the players could play their best, but we don't have the best players to be a winning team at the moment.

    i hate to say this team is like a little kid (no i dont believe mlse bs), it takes time to grow, and of course im annoy from the past 6 years of shit but eventually they will get out of this. Some ppl may back out now, but when they start winning, they will come back, but i consider them as part-time fans (or "bandwagoners"). True fans will not back out from a team; im not saying that not going to games or not buying products are not true fans, but i want to say that at least watch it on tv or follow it and stay positive instead.

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    I just don't know how TFC FO sells the Paul Mariner era to SSH at renewal time.

    Most fans seem to have already given up on this team. They can announce 18,000+ attendances all they want. We aren't stupid though. We know the stadium is half empty.

    The sad thing is that I think it will be more of the same next year if the current management team remains. How does 7 years with no playoffs in MLS sound?

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    Many sports teams in no relegation leagues go through decades of incompetency. Look at the Green Bay Packers of the 70's and 80's, the current Leafs, the Pittsburgh Pirates.


    Yes it bothered fans.


    Doesn't stop you caring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torontofc View Post
    they are clapping maybe for the effort, the players could play their best, but we don't have the best players to be a winning team at the moment.

    i hate to say this team is like a little kid (no i dont believe mlse bs), it takes time to grow, and of course im annoy from the past 6 years of shit but eventually they will get out of this. Some ppl may back out now, but when they start winning, they will come back, but i consider them as part-time fans (or "bandwagoners"). True fans will not back out from a team; im not saying that not going to games or not buying products are not true fans, but i want to say that at least watch it on tv or follow it and stay positive instead.

    If people leave now, I can't say I blame them. But hey, lets be honest, by people dropping their season tickets it at least shows FO that their failures have consequences. Those who drop their season tickets are probably doing more for this club than those of us who are renewing. Anyone who doesn't renew their season seats should NOT be considered "part time supporters."
    Last edited by TFC_905; 08-16-2012 at 06:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC_905 View Post
    If people leave now, I can't say I blame them. But hey, lets be honest, by people dropping their season tickets it at least shows FO that their failures have consequences. Those who drop their season tickets are probably doing more for this club than those of us who are renewing. Anyone who doesn't renew their season seats should NOT be considered "part time supporters."
    For a lot of folks, myself included - not renewing is a financial call. No more, no less. I can't make every game like I used to, and I end up eating the cost of a bunch of tickets. I would have saved a lot of money this year if I'd let them go and just bought below cost secondary market tickets for the games I can make.

    I won't have seasons next year, but it won't really change how often I am at BMO.

    But I agree - giving up seasons is the single most powerful thing that people can do if they want the current execs gone. This is a corporation running a sports team like a corporation. The success of the execs is being judged on financial results, not on the field results. We could languish in last place for the next decade and set futility record after futility record, but as long as long as the tickets are selling, and jerseys are flying off the shelves our current exec team will be deemed successful by their bosses.

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    Toronto is now an event city. There are no real fans here. Unless they are fans of "events".

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    I'm not stopping my fucking clapping. I clap the effort and the accountability of the players coming over who acknowledge our support and clearly want to do better for us.


    If one doesn't renew and one doesn't like the term "part-time supporter" we could always use some other term. How about "At home supporter"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart of Stone View Post
    Toronto is now an event city. There are no real fans here. Unless they are fans of "events".


    Sweeping statement much?


    Wait- aren't YOU here? You don't have a location I can see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    I'm not stopping my fucking clapping. I clap the effort and the accountability of the players coming over who acknowledge our support and clearly want to do better for us.


    If one doesn't renew and one doesn't like the term "part-time supporter" we could always use some other term. How about "At home supporter"?
    I'm curious - how do you equate not having seasons with being a part time supporter? You can attend every match without seasons. You can go on away trips without seasons, you could support the team in other ways (with things like painting banners).

    Assuming you do equate having seasons with supporter vs part time supporter.

    There are two sides to the argument. I understand both sides. In my opinion neither is right or wrong. Only different.

    One is attend every game, support the boys on the pitch, focus on the now. Do it with seasons, and support MLSE financially. Enough people do this, the rollercoaster will continue because the only thing that matters to them is financial success.

    The other is give up your seasons, take money out of MLSE's pockets knowing that the only thing that will truly make a long term change is if their profits are hit enough that they deem it time to make the right changes. This is sacrificing the short term of the potential hope of a better future.

    What's happened at United with supporters giving up seasons to protest the Glazers has shaped my view on this issue. Thousands of true reds - folks that have attended matches for years, in many cases decades - folks that used to make the Stretford End one of the most intimidating supporters ends in England - have given their seasons in protest and been replaced by the plastic prawn brigades in droves. By the logic above - those plastics that replaced them are the "full-time supporter

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    Sure, its bothers me.

    They also seem to be quite competitive in CCL matches for the last year or so, I do have value in that.

    I also know that being a supporter isn't always easy and I choose to do it anyway.
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    I'm curious - how do you equate not having seasons with being a part time supporter? You can attend every match without seasons. You can go on away trips without seasons, you could support the team in other ways (with things like painting banners).

    Assuming you do equate having seasons with supporter vs part time supporter.

    There are two sides to the argument. I understand both sides. In my opinion neither is right or wrong. Only different.

    One is attend every game, support the boys on the pitch, focus on the now. Do it with seasons, and support MLSE financially. Enough people do this, the rollercoaster will continue because the only thing that matters to them is financial success.

    The other is give up your seasons, take money out of MLSE's pockets knowing that the only thing that will truly make a long term change is if their profits are hit enough that they deem it time to make the right changes. This is sacrificing the short term of the potential hope of a better future.

    What's happened at United with supporters giving up seasons to protest the Glazers has shaped my view on this issue. Thousands of true reds - folks that have attended matches for years, in many cases decades - folks that used to make the Stretford End one of the most intimidating supporters ends in England - have given their seasons in protest and been replaced by the plastic prawn brigades in droves. By the logic above - those plastics that replaced them are the "full-time supporter
    Seasons tickets are not an indication of supporter or not, you make a very vaild point about contribution coming from all areas regardeless of having that ticket. Your point about dumping them speaks volumes, and it makes finanacial sense for you so no worries Brad.

    I think FYR is moreso reacting to *some* of the people who are jumping off based on all the other reasons and swearing they are never coming back. To each their own on that front, but we all know we will continue doing what we have all choosen to do.
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    I'm curious - how do you equate not having seasons with being a part time supporter? You can attend every match without seasons. You can go on away trips without seasons, you could support the team in other ways (with things like painting banners).

    Assuming you do equate having seasons with supporter vs part time supporter.

    There are two sides to the argument. I understand both sides. In my opinion neither is right or wrong. Only different.

    One is attend every game, support the boys on the pitch, focus on the now. Do it with seasons, and support MLSE financially. Enough people do this, the rollercoaster will continue because the only thing that matters to them is financial success.

    The other is give up your seasons, take money out of MLSE's pockets knowing that the only thing that will truly make a long term change is if their profits are hit enough that they deem it time to make the right changes. This is sacrificing the short term of the potential hope of a better future.

    What's happened at United with supporters giving up seasons to protest the Glazers has shaped my view on this issue. Thousands of true reds - folks that have attended matches for years, in many cases decades - folks that used to make the Stretford End one of the most intimidating supporters ends in England - have given their seasons in protest and been replaced by the plastic prawn brigades in droves. By the logic above - those plastics that replaced them are the "full-time supporter
    brad you're inferring a lot there and helping me make my next point that we're too sensitive about some of these definitions.



    There are all types of support and that's fine. I guess its important to open with that every post that we want to discuss a different aspect. I just think it's funny how someone can not have seasons, not get to every game, not see every game and not be by definition a part time supporter. I don't really care myself. It's not a dick measurement it's just a fact that by definition if you don't see every single game you are NOT full-time, hence you are technically part-time and I have zero implications to go with that.

    I'm poking fun, not at you or people who can't get to every game (especially if it's because of real life getting in the way but not exclusively that reason either) I was poking fun at how serious we all sometimes take ourselves about some of these terms. I'm no different.

    Hope that clears that up a bit.
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 08-16-2012 at 08:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart of Stone View Post
    Toronto is now an event city. There are no real fans here. Unless they are fans of "events".
    This is not new, it's always been like this. In the early days of TFC when the stadium was full there were never more than about 1000 "real" fans of the team, the rest were just there because it was the cool place to be. The proof being that not a whole lot of people other than those in the south-east corner were paying much attention to the game. I remember one time having to run to the washroom during play, and the concourse was absolutely packed with people just hanging around, chatting around the tables or talking on the phone, not giving two craps about what was going on on the pitch. Now that the buzz has passed, all these people are gone and all that's left is that hard core of supporters and a few hangers on who still don't know that TFC isn't "in" anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    I'm curious - how do you equate not having seasons with being a part time supporter? You can attend every match without seasons. You can go on away trips without seasons, you could support the team in other ways (with things like painting banners).
    Just to add to this and kind of a side note:

    You can go to CCL games without season tickets as well.
    Don't be sold otherwise when your renewal package comes in!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Many sports teams in no relegation leagues go through decades of incompetency. Look at the Green Bay Packers of the 70's and 80's, the current Leafs, the Pittsburgh Pirates.


    Yes it bothered fans.


    Doesn't stop you caring.
    There is a big difference here. Before their slumps these teams were around for many decades during which they enjoyed success and built a multi-generational fanbase. This makes it more likely that fans will endure prolonged periods of drought. TFC has sucked from day one. They have never provided us with anything but very small victories (the Canadian Championship, a few individual league or CCL games here and there). TFC have not earned our loyalty. We just gave it to them unconditionally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carefree View Post
    This is not new, it's always been like this. In the early days of TFC when the stadium was full there were never more than about 1000 "real" fans of the team, the rest were just there because it was the cool place to be. The proof being that not a whole lot of people other than those in the south-east corner were paying much attention to the game. I remember one time having to run to the washroom during play, and the concourse was absolutely packed with people just hanging around, chatting around the tables or talking on the phone, not giving two craps about what was going on on the pitch. Now that the buzz has passed, all these people are gone and all that's left is that hard core of supporters and a few hangers on who still don't know that TFC isn't "in" anymore.
    I'd love to know what your definition of "real" fan is.

    I spent more time talking to guys in my section about the EPL yesterday than I did on the actual game being played. It had nothing to do with not caring what was happening on the pitch - It's not rocket science to look at the pitch, take in what's going on, realise it's garbage and continue to speak about something more interesting.

    I actually didn't give two shits about what the team was doing on the field, but I was there to support the boys. If they did something other than kick the ball hopelessly forward or pass to the opposing team, I clapped in appreciation. But that rarely happened yesterday.

    So again I ask, what is your definition of real fan and how should that person act at a match?
    Last edited by jabbronies; 08-16-2012 at 08:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torontofc View Post
    they are clapping maybe for the effort, the players could play their best, but we don't have the best players to be a winning team at the moment.

    i hate to say this team is like a little kid (no i dont believe mlse bs), it takes time to grow, and of course im annoy from the past 6 years of shit but eventually they will get out of this. Some ppl may back out now, but when they start winning, they will come back, but i consider them as part-time fans (or "bandwagoners"). True fans will not back out from a team; im not saying that not going to games or not buying products are not true fans, but i want to say that at least watch it on tv or follow it and stay positive instead.
    I'm sorry but I saw very little effort last night other than a 10-minute spell in the middle of the second half. The first 60 minutes were just brutal to watch, and right before our first goal I had started switching back and forth between this game and the Jays on Sportsnet. I was thinking that the players have just completely given up and don't give a shit anymore. The first goal gave them a bit of hope and then they scored a second, but a few minutes later, as we've seen too often, they just stopped playing and the inevitable happened. I wouldn't say that kind of effort deserved clapping.

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    Anyone who bothered to go to the game yesterday cold be labeled a real fan.
    To actually waste your time in traffic/public transit; over spend on food and beer; sit there for 80 - 90 minutes to watch some of the worst soccer the world has to offer; you have to be a fan of the team in some way, shape or form.

    To ridicule people for clapping for the team after a draw is blind and ignorant. A result is a result at this point. We're not fighting for anything. No playoffs, CCL is a pipe dream IMO. You are there for that one game and one game only. If they get a result, be happy because they are few and far between.

    If you are pissed off at the team and want them to suffer, don't go to the game and don't renew your tickets next season. Don't watch it on TV and don't buy merchandise..as a matter of fact, don't wear any merchandise either. That's the only way to make the team (FO) feel it. Make the team irrelevant by your own actions. Others will follow if they agree with you. Don't jump on others for not doing what you think they should do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I'd love to know what your definition of "real" fan is.
    People who are there first and foremost to watch the game. People who make an effort to know who the players are. People who follow the team's evolution in the league and other competitions. People who care.

    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I spent more time talking to guys in my section about the EPL yesterday than I did on the actual game being played. It had nothing to do with not caring what was happening on the pitch - It's not rocket science to look at the pitch, take in what's going on, realise it's garbage and continue to speak about something more interesting.

    I actually didn't give two shits about what the team was doing on the field, but I was there to support the boys. If they did something other than kick the ball hopelessly forward or pass to the opposing team, I clapped in appreciation. But that rarely happened yesterday.

    So again I ask, what is your definition of real fan and how should that person act at a match?
    I'm not trying to start that whole "I'm a better supporter than you" BS. Supporters can support however they want, and I'm not calling out any particular person with my comments. But you have to admit a lot of the people that were coming to the stadium in years 1 and 2 were simply curious about a sport they knew very little about (and I'm including myself in this) and because of the dreadful quality of the team they just didn't get hooked. People like that were never supporters to begin with, nor would they have defined themselves as such.

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    Ever considered some people are clapping the final whistle? As in, "thank god you blew that whistle, I'm applauding the fact this painful display is over"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carefree View Post
    People who are there first and foremost to watch the game. People who make an effort to know who the players are. People who follow the team's evolution in the league and other competitions. People who care.



    I'm not trying to start that whole "I'm a better supporter than you" BS. Supporters can support however they want, and I'm not calling out any particular person with my comments. But you have to admit a lot of the people that were coming to the stadium in years 1 and 2 were simply curious about a sport they knew very little about (and I'm including myself in this) and because of the dreadful quality of the team they just didn't get hooked. People like that were never supporters to begin with, nor would they have defined themselves as such.
    This isn't about "better supporter than you" BS. We are talking about everyone in the stadium - not just supporters. For the record I don't sit in the south end, so I'd like to think I'm exposed to newbies/tourists/non-real fans more than those in the south end. Sure the loudest mouths in the stadium may be people who don't care about the game, but the other 80% of people are actually watching the game. When majority of the people around me are reacting to all of the small plays on the pitch (not scoring chance, just something simple like a pull down in the middle of the park) that should be enough indication that they are watching the game.

    You said the stadium only had about 1000 real fans in the stadium - which is basically the south end. Another poster pointed out that this city is an event city and people are only there for the event.

    I'm calling BS on both of those comments. Both of which wreak of "better supporter than you". You may not be calling out anyone on the board here, but you sure sound high and mighty to the 15K other people in the stadium you don't consider real fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carefree View Post
    I'm sorry but I saw very little effort last night other than a 10-minute spell in the middle of the second half. The first 60 minutes were just brutal to watch, and right before our first goal I had started switching back and forth between this game and the Jays on Sportsnet. I was thinking that the players have just completely given up and don't give a shit anymore. The first goal gave them a bit of hope and then they scored a second, but a few minutes later, as we've seen too often, they just stopped playing and the inevitable happened. I wouldn't say that kind of effort deserved clapping.
    How do you figure when most of the players on the pitch last night were depth players getting a chance or brand new to the squad? If there was uncreative play ( and at times, there was ) it was down to an irregular squad trying to find out one another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carefree View Post
    People who are there first and foremost to watch the game. People who make an effort to know who the players are. People who follow the team's evolution in the league and other competitions. People who care.
    -So says carefree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    -So says carefree.
    Oh dear! It took me a minute to get this...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    For the record I don't sit in the south end
    Neither do I. And also for the record, I prefer to watch a game sitting down, and my throat rarely hurts at the end of a game. Also, none of this is relevant to what I was talking about in my previous posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    I'm calling BS on both of those comments. Both of which wreak of "better supporter than you". You may not be calling out anyone on the board here, but you sure sound high and mighty to the 15K other people in the stadium you don't consider real fans.
    Sorry you feel that way. That certainly wasn't my intention. I don't think we're communicating very well here so I'm gonna leave this thread for now and get back to work. Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carefree View Post
    Neither do I. And also for the record, I prefer to watch a game sitting down, and my throat rarely hurts at the end of a game. Also, none of this is relevant to what I was talking about in my previous posts.



    Sorry you feel that way. That certainly wasn't my intention. I don't think we're communicating very well here so I'm gonna leave this thread for now and get back to work. Cheers!
    definitely some miscommunication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    I'm not stopping my fucking clapping. I clap the effort and the accountability of the players coming over who acknowledge our support and clearly want to do better for us.


    If one doesn't renew and one doesn't like the term "part-time supporter" we could always use some other term. How about "At home supporter"?
    Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaait. So if someone buys every single ticket to every game from scalpers, screams their fucking lungs out every match and boycotts MLSE at the concession, they're a "part-time" or "at home supporter" to you? What if a person buys after-market tickets to half of the games, but goes to all of those games, as opposed to a SSH who has a ticket for each match but goes to just a few?

    Man, I've heard you spew out some nonsense before, but this has got to take the cake. How you arrived at your conclusion escapes me entirely.

    Edit: and for the record, I had season tickets. Dropped them all after last season. I've been to three matches this year and I probably know more about the dramatic ins and outs of this team than the vast majority of current SSHs.
    Last edited by DangerRed; 08-16-2012 at 10:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerRed View Post
    Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaait. So if someone buys every single ticket to every game from scalpers, screams their fucking lungs out every match and boycotts MLSE at the concession, they're a "part-time" or "at home supporter" to you? What if a person buys after-market tickets to half of the games, but goes to all of those games, as opposed to a SSH who has a ticket for each match but goes to just a few?

    Man, I've heard you spew out some nonsense before, but this has got to take the cake. How you arrived at your conclusion escapes me entirely.

    Edit: and for the record, I had season tickets. Dropped them all after last season. I've been to three matches this year and I probably know more about the dramatic ins and outs of this team than the vast majority of current SSHs.
    And speaking of crazy conclusions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    brad you're inferring a lot there and helping me make my next point that we're too sensitive about some of these definitions.



    There are all types of support and that's fine. I guess its important to open with that every post that we want to discuss a different aspect. I just think it's funny how someone can not have seasons, not get to every game, not see every game and not be by definition a part time supporter. I don't really care myself. It's not a dick measurement it's just a fact that by definition if you don't see every single game you are NOT full-time, hence you are technically part-time and I have zero implications to go with that.

    I'm poking fun, not at you or people who can't get to every game (especially if it's because of real life getting in the way but not exclusively that reason either) I was poking fun at how serious we all sometimes take ourselves about some of these terms. I'm no different.

    Hope that clears that up a bit.
    This is what I posted after what you quoted. Do you still want me to answer your "what-if 's"? Or are we good?
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    What's the purpose of threads like this? The last time I checked, nobody was holding a gun to anyone's head to support the club in any capacity.

    Yes, our brief history has been abysmal for the most part, and it bothers me that the club is on the verge of yet another season without qualifying for the playoffs, but I will continue to support the club and renew my seasons tickets, with the hope that I will soon be rewarded for my loyalty and resilience.

    By the same token, I have stopped buying merchandise and spending excessive amounts at the concessions at BMO Field.

 

 

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