What do you think of our future, in general

[Oldtimer]

I am optimistic that one day in the near future, Terry Dunfield will be wearing a TFC "Greatness Has Been Found" t-shirt.

Maybe he'll be on the wall of honour!!!!!

[Jack]

I believe...that my future as a season seat holder is on the line.

[Derko]

On the bright side.... our bleak future as a team did get rid of a lot of part timers, glory hunters and drunken college kids...

That's a reason to celebrate, isn't it?

Yes, at least supporters who care are starting to be the majority

[Jack]

Yeah. It's great that we were shit and now our stadium is half-empty every game.

[Brooker]

Yeah. It's great that we were shit and now our stadium is half-empty every game.

That's not really fair. We didn't say that at all.

[Huyton]

Yeah. It's great that we were shit and now our stadium is half-empty every game.

I like it! Without a shit team, I wouldn't have season tickets.

So many people have promised not to renew if Mariner is in charge that I may actually be able to make it in to the South Stands at the next Relocation Event!!

[narduch]

Unless the front office structure is changed (purge Anselmi, Cochrane, Beirne and Mariner) I will continue to believe that the future of this club is bleak.

I look at the players on TFC, and I look at what other MLS teams have, and I get this depressed feeling that its going to take a while to fix this mess. And I don't believe that Mariner is the man to fix it, considering that he helped create it. The recent transfer window hasn't changed my mind on that. If we go into 2013 with Mariner in charge, I'm expecting more of the same.

I will always be a fan and follow this team, but I'm saddened to see what the idiots who run this team have done considering all that hope we had in 2007.

Well with new ownership coming in and it seems like we have an actual core of players, the new ownership said that wins will matter so what I'm getting at is do you think well get back some of the lost feeling of a fortress at home the European supportive feeling?

The new owners never said that. That was the theory from a journalist in a poorly written news article recently.

If anything we should expect more of the same from the new ownership structure. Just replace the teachers with Bell/Rogers.

[Jack]

Yes, at least supporters who care are starting to be the majority

The supporters who care are starting to be the majority not because their ranks are growing, but because attendance is going down. That is not a good thing.

That's not really fair. We didn't say that at all.

From a certain point of view, you did. The attitude, which has been around for a long time, that these other attendees to the games are somehow inferior, or a detriment to atmosphere and support, is a dangerous one. The bottom line is, hardcore supporters will always be a vocal minority, which requires us to lead and channel the energy of those who you disparaged in your post.

To this day, one of the most successful stadium-wide chants was "This is Our House". Yet that chant was shit on extensively as a hockey, basketball, fratboy chant. The building blocks were there, but they ended up being knocked down by the attitude of looking down our noses at these people instead of helping and channelling their energy. This is Our House was just a first step. Same with TFC Clap Clap Clap. Same with many other "lame" chants.

15,000 people chanting "This is Our House" is much more impressive for me than 1,000 singing the Bounce. In terms of atmosphere, intimidation and pumping things up. Not that the Bounce is bad, it's awesome, but you won't get the rest of the stadium to evolve to that level without the simple chants first. Things take time to catch on and we supporters have been guilty of deeming a chant "stale" or "overused" when it starts to be chanted by these "party animal fratboys" and "bandwagoneers". Our own impatience with bringing the rest of the stadium on board has ultimately been a factor in the current situation in terms of atmosphere, compounded immensely by the pile of shit that the team continues to foist off on us.

Start with simple, build and be patient. Gave over game, season over season, more people will learn the songs and chants and be more likely to join in. But when it's something they can't begin to fathom, something totally different from what they're used to doing at a sporting event, then it needs to be introduced slowly. We didn't do that.

So I find your statement particularly troublesome because, in the end, that vision of a whole stadium (or even half) getting on board and bringing the atmosphere, is never going to be realized when people are satisfied with losing willing, if misguided, participants in the support of the team.

[trane]

I like it! Without a shit team, I wouldn't have season tickets.

So many people have promised not to renew if Mariner is in charge that I may actually be able to make it in to the South Stands at the next Relocation Event!!

That is realy great for you. The fact that for 7 years, the team that has represented this city has been pretty much an embarasment is no biggie as long as you get to feel like a real supporter. The fact that countless of passionate supporters have been driven out, because of the shit on the field and between supporters, that is no biggie, as long as the few stay MLSE for live. That you feel like talking down to Jack one of the key people responsible for the RPB, and the only success that this club has had ( the success in the stands) tells it all, the fact that countless of key original supporters (roogsy being one of the last) having been marginalized, is all good as long as a bunch of self proclaimed true supporters stay.

[trane]

The supporters who care are starting to be the majority not because their ranks are growing, but because attendance is going down. That is not a good thing.



From a certain point of view, you did. The attitude, which has been around for a long time, that these other attendees to the games are somehow inferior, or a detriment to atmosphere and support, is a dangerous one. The bottom line is, hardcore supporters will always be a vocal minority, which requires us to lead and channel the energy of those who you disparaged in your post.

To this day, one of the most successful stadium-wide chants was "This is Our House". Yet that chant was shit on extensively as a hockey, basketball, fratboy chant. The building blocks were there, but they ended up being knocked down by the attitude of looking down our noses at these people instead of helping and channelling their energy. This is Our House was just a first step. Same with TFC Clap Clap Clap. Same with many other "lame" chants.

15,000 people chanting "This is Our House" is much more impressive for me than 1,000 singing the Bounce. In terms of atmosphere, intimidation and pumping things up. Not that the Bounce is bad, it's awesome, but you won't get the rest of the stadium to evolve to that level without the simple chants first. Things take time to catch on and we supporters have been guilty of deeming a chant "stale" or "overused" when it starts to be chanted by these "party animal fratboys" and "bandwagoneers". Our own impatience with bringing the rest of the stadium on board has ultimately been a factor in the current situation in terms of atmosphere, compounded immensely by the pile of shit that the team continues to foist off on us.

Start with simple, build and be patient. Gave over game, season over season, more people will learn the songs and chants and be more likely to join in. But when it's something they can't begin to fathom, something totally different from what they're used to doing at a sporting event, then it needs to be introduced slowly. We didn't do that.

So I find your statement particularly troublesome because, in the end, that vision of a whole stadium (or even half) getting on board and bringing the atmosphere, is never going to be realized when people are satisfied with losing willing, if misguided, participants in the support of the team.

100% agreed. The over reality is that support, as in standing and chating has been discourged through out most of the stadium. I almost got kicked out for standing on two occasions, at least.

[trane]

I have to say that this discussion, while I think one that should be had, is one that is not resolved, will kill not only the chore supporters, but the club, as all it ever had is supporters.

Clearly most that think that the club should be held to task for failing to deliver over and over again, have left or have gone to the sidelines, if this continues, even the supporters section will be half empty.

[Gazza]

Maybe he'll be on the wall of honour!!!!!

Oh...now you're just teasing. Dunfield before De Rosario? Maybe they'll have a joint ceremony.

[gate7]

At this pace I think our future will consist of more empty seats.......which speaks for itself.

[tiberius]

I will watch almost all future games, I will attend quite a few games each year (I'm outside GTA), I will continue to think highly of, and support the players on the field. I believe the only hope for salvation is a completely new FO structure, from the top down (and way, way lower ticket prices). I believe the likelihood of this is small (say 20%). Therefore I believe we are headed into a desolate, nuclear winter where only the strong will survive. 50/50 that 5 years down the road we go the way of Toronto Blizzard. Call me a Roogsie if you must, but these are the COLD HARD FACTS IMHO.

[tfcocd]

Folks above have referenced the Academy as producing rock stars.

Every MLS team has one. Unless ours is the number 1 ranked Academy in North America, at best it will produce talent on par with what other Academies are producing. Which means it will promote parity unless it can be the best in the league.

Given that the talent pool and development model in the US is deeper than what we have in Canada through our current OSA pathways and geographic limitations, it will have a hard time producing the best. Many MLS Academies are set up to produce prospects that are more talented than we can.

Further, under MLS roster rules, the players that come out of our Academy have a very difficult time finding jobs in the USA because of MLS' Roster Rules (CDNs count as Internationals). Therefore, we are producing assets that have little to no trade market value.

Until such time as we become serious, through a vision, that roster management in Canada includes a robust scouting network to ensure that we uncover the best American players out there, utilize the Superdraft and stop trading first round picks (we have traded 3 in 5 years), and ensure that our International players are top of the heap... we will continue to muddle around the bottom of the table. I don't mean to piss on anyone's cornflakes here. Reality is what it is though.

Academy rankings would be very interesting and I wonder what the criteria would be? I think it would be valuation of graduating players. I am not sure what the oldest academy is in MLS but it would be interesting to see a list of graduates and there valuation. For TFC we have a handful to measure success and they must have a transfer value so we can sum it up for TFC. I disagree with an earlier post that it would be bad if the academy sells its best players. To me that is a good sign. If the academy is developing players of a quality that can play in a top league than the training is working and the second tier players should add good depth to the first team and ideally a few starters. That kind of success would more breed success.

For what it is worth on 'transfer market' site:
Morgan is 175,000 euros, Henry at 125,000 euros according to the site.... (Stinson 175,000 !?!)

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/do...er_157907.html

[Huyton]

That is realy great for you. The fact that for 7 years, the team that has represented this city has been pretty much an embarasment is no biggie as long as you get to feel like a real supporter. The fact that countless of passionate supporters have been driven out, because of the shit on the field and between supporters, that is no biggie, as long as the few stay MLSE for live. That you feel like talking down to Jack one of the key people responsible for the RPB, and the only success that this club has had ( the success in the stands) tells it all, the fact that countless of key original supporters (roogsy being one of the last) having been marginalized, is all good as long as a bunch of self proclaimed true supporters stay.

Hi, Trane...

Firstly, I was astonished at what I perceived to be Jacks tone in his statment. He sounded really down and depressed...not the more upbeat guy that I have come to respect. What I said was an attempt at trying to point out a silver lining.

Secondly, I'm not that happy with the on-field performance either, but I've been on a waiting list for seasons tickets since before the first game at BMO Field. I had massively under-rated the demand for football in Toronto. Having been to all sorts of games over the years, from Toronto Metros-Croatia, to the Blizzard and the Lynx, with the occasional CMNT game thrown in for good measure, I blew it big time.

So, I went through the torture of the ransom packs, and partial packs. I attended all the Nutralite and CCL games, getting in to the South Stand as often as I could. With the waiting list as long as it was reputed to be, and working for considerably less than before the economic collapse, all I could afford would be seats in a Supporters Section, and there was little hope of that unless the team was shit.

So, for me, finally being able to afford seasons tickets is the silver lining to the dark cloud that is the team being shit.

Was I talking down to Jack? I don't think so, and it certainly wasn't my intent. If it came across that way, then I hope that you, and he, will accept my apologies for my obviously poor communication.

With respect,

Huyton.

[Jack]

I freely admit to being a bit down, Huyton. I had a bit of an extended break, then was at the game last Saturday and was shocked at the apathy. I admit, I am not around as much as I used to be, given time demands from a growing family and increasing responsibility at work, but I have seen a decline in the support of TFC that does concern me profoundly, something I am not going to hide. I still believe in this group, this team and the future of the sport in the city, but I think we all need to make something happen to keep the dream alive. Phil is doing a great job of working toward this and I think he has a great vision in place. Hopefully, TFC's management can be on board enough to make it happen. We've seen many MLS teams go through a trough and come out stronger and I believe we need to do the same. It's funny, when Connie and I walked into Barra Brava's tailgate in the first year, as the first ever opposing supporters to do so, we were told to "wait and see". We naively answered that we were going to be fine and continue to have the energy and support we had at that time. Little did we know that we would be where we are in year 6. There is still ample opportunity to rebuild the rapport that made supporters feel like part of the club, so I hope that the new initiatives our execs are taking on will make that happen. The BB guys look like prophets right now.

And in response to Trane's comments, I don't think he was talking down, I think he was trying to inject some levity into the situation, which is all good in my books. I think we often take ourselves too seriously and, when the chips are down, supporters need to keep our sense of humour and humility above all else.

[Brooker]

The supporters who care are starting to be the majority not because their ranks are growing, but because attendance is going down. That is not a good thing.



From a certain point of view, you did. The attitude, which has been around for a long time, that these other attendees to the games are somehow inferior, or a detriment to atmosphere and support, is a dangerous one. The bottom line is, hardcore supporters will always be a vocal minority, which requires us to lead and channel the energy of those who you disparaged in your post.

To this day, one of the most successful stadium-wide chants was "This is Our House". Yet that chant was shit on extensively as a hockey, basketball, fratboy chant. The building blocks were there, but they ended up being knocked down by the attitude of looking down our noses at these people instead of helping and channelling their energy. This is Our House was just a first step. Same with TFC Clap Clap Clap. Same with many other "lame" chants.

15,000 people chanting "This is Our House" is much more impressive for me than 1,000 singing the Bounce. In terms of atmosphere, intimidation and pumping things up. Not that the Bounce is bad, it's awesome, but you won't get the rest of the stadium to evolve to that level without the simple chants first. Things take time to catch on and we supporters have been guilty of deeming a chant "stale" or "overused" when it starts to be chanted by these "party animal fratboys" and "bandwagoneers". Our own impatience with bringing the rest of the stadium on board has ultimately been a factor in the current situation in terms of atmosphere, compounded immensely by the pile of shit that the team continues to foist off on us.

Start with simple, build and be patient. Gave over game, season over season, more people will learn the songs and chants and be more likely to join in. But when it's something they can't begin to fathom, something totally different from what they're used to doing at a sporting event, then it needs to be introduced slowly. We didn't do that.

So I find your statement particularly troublesome because, in the end, that vision of a whole stadium (or even half) getting on board and bringing the atmosphere, is never going to be realized when people are satisfied with losing willing, if misguided, participants in the support of the team.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying... or more likely I didn't say it properly.

I wasn't looking down on the average fan. I was bashing the folks who spend more time on their cellphone or drinking their face off while barely paying attention to the game.

[Super]

I have completely lost faith in TFC's ability to turn things around. I just don't see it happening any time soon. I'll likely go ahead and renew for next year, but I see no reason why I should be optimistic going into our 7th season. Mariner was able to win a few games for us, and certainly is better than Winter, but lack of possession will kill us in the end. I think we'll continue to be shit until we actually hire a guy with head-coaching experience who doesn't have warning signs all over him (like Preki). Until that time we'll continue to make horrible mistakes, over and over again.

No wonder BMO is empty. Who wants to watch shit football at a shit stadium? Let's be honest here. TFC is not a good team. We've never been good. We've either been bad or shit. Now we're somewhere in between. Horrible to watch, though, so that'll never bring people to the game. I'll continue to go, but I think next year is the last chance for TFC to retain me as a customer. Stadium is bad, team is bad and atmosphere is bad. Still we're paying top dollar compared to other MLS teams. I feel that I have to stop this madness at one point. Certainly my support never helped this team - so won't matter if I'm there or not.

[tfc2008]

Is there a future?....

[asterix606]

I have also lost faith in TFC! Had our club been owned by a rich businessman who loves football, things would have been different.

TFC is unfortunately married to MLSE and there is no divorce coming up.

Following this brutal team for the past 6 long years has taken a toll on all of us! It's not fun anymore!

If you want a future, try fixing these problems below, feel free to add more!!!!

- Highest priced tickets in league.
- Brutal team for the past 6 seasons.
- Presently in last place in MLS with 19 points.
- No playoffs in all their history.
- Boring football to watch.

- No stable and quality coaching staff.
- Beat records this year for worst team in MLS history.
- Average players stay at TFC is way too short.

- STH get no freebies, just a cheap scarf.
- Hard to resale ST on market.
- MLSE taking 35% of your resale tickets on TFC website.
- Sections are now full of kids and soccer moms, real fans are gone.
- Game day atmosphere not as intense as it used to be.

- Bad stadium design.
- Expensive food and beer.
- Not treated like adults with beer cutoff.
- Insane bathroom lineups

- Idiotic FO
- Bad scouting network
- Trading away SuperDraft picks

[Alixir]

I have also lost faith in TFC! Had our club been owned by a rich businessman who loves football, things would have been different.

TFC is unfortunately married to MLSE and there is no divorce coming up.

Following this brutal team for the past 6 long years has taken a toll on all of us! It's not fun anymore!

If you want a future, try fixing these problems below, feel free to add more!!!!

- Highest priced tickets in league.
- Brutal team for the past 6 seasons.
- Presently in last place in MLS with 19 points.
- No playoffs in all their history.
- Boring football to watch.

- No stable and quality coaching staff.
- Beat records this year for worst team in MLS history.
- Average players stay at TFC is way too short.

- STH get no freebies, just a cheap scarf.
- Hard to resale ST on market.
- MLSE taking 35% of your resale tickets on TFC website.
- Sections are now full of kids and soccer moms, real fans are gone.
- Game day atmosphere not as intense as it used to be.

- Bad stadium design.
- Expensive food and beer.
- Not treated like adults with beer cutoff.
- Insane bathroom lineups

- Idiotic FO
- Bad scouting network
- Trading away SuperDraft picks

***TOM ANSELMI***

I added the biggest part of the problem.

[jazzy]

I like it! Without a shit team, I wouldn't have season tickets.

So many people have promised not to renew if Mariner is in charge that I may actually be able to make it in to the South Stands at the next Relocation Event!!

there's ' a glass full ' attitude .....refreshing.....as much as I am disheartened by my feelings of total ineffectiveness and unimportance to present FO,..and the need of such a

big ass overhaul to improve our game 'atmosphere' that realistically I'm probably dreaming.......but good on ya....true enough the ONLY reason now we're still there is the

amazing friends and fans we've met!......but it this duality can't go on forever...love the game . love my home team players..(ya some not so much, but they are 'my'

team)..love my friends .....is this just life as a Toronto sports fan ??..lol....as many have said when a profiteering bunch of A-holes....kill your HOPE,..then whats left....??..but

to those positive soccer lovers keep the faith!

[Mark in Ottawa]

I think we often take ourselves too seriously and, when the chips are down, supporters need to keep our sense of humour and humility above all else.

Sounds like a cue for the 75 Mile Bastards

[burlington Red]

I have completely lost faith in TFC's ability to turn things around. I just don't see it happening any time soon. I'll likely go ahead and renew for next year, but I see no reason why I should be optimistic going into our 7th season. Mariner was able to win a few games for us, and certainly is better than Winter, but lack of possession will kill us in the end. I think we'll continue to be shit until we actually hire a guy with head-coaching experience who doesn't have warning signs all over him (like Preki). Until that time we'll continue to make horrible mistakes, over and over again.

No wonder BMO is empty. Who wants to watch shit football at a shit stadium? Let's be honest here. TFC is not a good team. We've never been good. We've either been bad or shit. Now we're somewhere in between. Horrible to watch, though, so that'll never bring people to the game. I'll continue to go, but I think next year is the last chance for TFC to retain me as a customer. Stadium is bad, team is bad and atmosphere is bad. Still we're paying top dollar compared to other MLS teams. I feel that I have to stop this madness at one point. Certainly my support never helped this team - so won't matter if I'm there or not.

I think we'll continue to be shit until we actually hire a guy with head-coaching experience- be careful what you wish for Mo Jonston had head coaching experience

Who wants to watch shit football at a shit stadium- I honestly haven't heard in 6 yrs of attending games anyone complain about the stadium, am I out of touch or is this an actual genuine compliant fans have. I have issues in that the supporters section is in the wrong place, I have issues with the time of certain games and times of trains back to the burbs, but I don't have an issue with the actual stadium, I actually like it.

[Suds]

I think we'll continue to be shit until we actually hire a guy with head-coaching experience- be careful what you wish for Mo Jonston had head coaching experience

Who wants to watch shit football at a shit stadium- I honestly haven't heard in 6 yrs of attending games anyone complain about the stadium, am I out of touch or is this an actual genuine compliant fans have. I have issues in that the supporters section is in the wrong place, I have issues with the time of certain games and times of trains back to the burbs, but I don't have an issue with the actual stadium, I actually like it.

I think when your team has been crap as long as ours has and you feel TFC has abused their relationship with the fans all the little things that can bother people become that much more heightened. I'm in agreement with your post about BMO. Other than on message boards, I do not hear anyone actually complaining about the stadium at the games. They have tried to address a number of things like the long washroom line-ups with getting access to the food building.

[Pookie]

I think when your team has been crap as long as ours has and you feel TFC has abused their relationship with the fans all the little things that can bother people become that much more heightened. I'm in agreement with your post about BMO. Other than on message boards, I do not hear anyone actually complaining about the stadium at the games. They have tried to address a number of things like the long washroom line-ups with getting access to the food building.

I think that the stadium is starting to see its share of complaints.. that said it is what it is. A barebones stadium that isn't protected from the elements but has a terrific grass surface.

I do have an issue with BMO and its location given the endless number of events in the area that take away from parking and add to the congestion. TTC simply doesn't have convenient options for folks north of the City. If a Casino ever goes into the area, I'd hate to see how that would impact an already difficult to access location.

[trane]

I freely admit to being a bit down, Huyton. I had a bit of an extended break, then was at the game last Saturday and was shocked at the apathy. I admit, I am not around as much as I used to be, given time demands from a growing family and increasing responsibility at work, but I have seen a decline in the support of TFC that does concern me profoundly, something I am not going to hide. I still believe in this group, this team and the future of the sport in the city, but I think we all need to make something happen to keep the dream alive. Phil is doing a great job of working toward this and I think he has a great vision in place. Hopefully, TFC's management can be on board enough to make it happen. We've seen many MLS teams go through a trough and come out stronger and I believe we need to do the same. It's funny, when Connie and I walked into Barra Brava's tailgate in the first year, as the first ever opposing supporters to do so, we were told to "wait and see". We naively answered that we were going to be fine and continue to have the energy and support we had at that time. Little did we know that we would be where we are in year 6. There is still ample opportunity to rebuild the rapport that made supporters feel like part of the club, so I hope that the new initiatives our execs are taking on will make that happen. The BB guys look like prophets right now.

And in response to Trane's comments, I don't think he was talking down, I think he was trying to inject some levity into the situation, which is all good in my books. I think we often take ourselves too seriously and, when the chips are down, supporters need to keep our sense of humour and humility above all else.

I am overlly sensitve, to the topic, as I said this was all a dream come true, that has turned into something of a nightmare, I am a glass half full dude in general, but I am also a realist, and all too often my attempts at a positive outlook, have been met by the reality of the stupidity of the FO. I would hate to see more passionate supporters leave or be marginalized, as I do not think it is a positive at all.

[trane]

Someone said that it is hard to still believe that this management/ownership group will be able to turn it around, and while I keep hope alive, I have to say that logic, and 6 years, tells me the same. I will say that I thuoght that the 4-3-3 direction and visiion, seemed to be the step in the right direction, [I am not for or against a 4-3-3-but I believe that there is a need for a indentity/system for a club on the pitch to build around] but the execution was poor. Sure hiring Winter, seemed like a inteligent gamble, no first team coaching experience, but a great pedegree, but how long it took them to understand that he was not going to deliver, and that they then replaced not only him but the entire concept is incredible. ( well in the case of MLSE realy credible and expected, but otherwise incredible). Now Mariner has delivered an improvemnt, and I think that the team on the pitch is more tallented, but still I am not blown away.

HOWEVER,

On the otherhand while I have boycotted the stadium for most of the year, I have to say that I realy miss it, greatly, and I hope that I am given a reason, however small that I pick up seasons again. [I HOPE THAT THE POINT HAS BEEN MADE TO MLSE THIS YEAR]

[ryan]

I don't foresee the future being positive any time soon for this club. Too many problems, no real solutions. No need to rehash the list of issues already gone over.


This song popped up on my mp3 player when I was at the gym this morning and made me think of this situation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mn1WN5yeag

From the east coast to the west coast
MLSE's gotta go
True sounds of a revolution
MLSE's gotta go
In our hearts in our souls
MLSE's gotta go
United we stand, divided we fall
MLSE's gotta go

Or you could sub in Anselmi for MLSE. /shrug.