What do you think of our future, in general

[Doucet3]

Well with new ownership coming in and it seems like we have an actual core of players, the new ownership said that wins will matter so what I'm getting at is do you think well get back some of the lost feeling of a fortress at home the European supportive feeling?

Guts me a little that we don't have that support, and I've notice on this board some of us bitch or are overly critical of some pretty ridiculous things, so can we stop finding things wrong an just enjoy our football a bit more (like really is the bmo field announcer THAT big of a deal..., does it matter if I hold my scarf for the anthem or not ...), the way I see it is if we are more united it would help the atmosphere, I knw when I'm in the north end it's effective, when I see RPB's section going all out I get going in the north end and that in turn gets ppl going in the north. Please don't want to kill me lol but come on guys lets tone down the bullshit and bickering

[Soccerpro]

More bleak than promising

[OgtheDim]

3 years from now we will be better off. Mariner leaving will be a minor part of a much bigger change.

[TOBOR !]

What is it Lassie ? It's as though you're trying to tell me something.

[brad]

As long as MLSE owns us, the future is grim.

[sully]

It's hard to see a good future having been beaten down so much for so long.

I think the academy may be a success in the long term, but that will only benefit the team if the league gets better and the academy doesn't just become a means of developing then selling players.

Toronto I think needs the league to go in the direction of more autonomy for the clubs and less control from the league. I think that there's a lot of sincerity in trying to make the club great in the FO but that will be unfulfilled as long as the players are playing for /contracted to people sitting in an office in New York then thus club will not reach its potential or come even close.

As for the new arrangement re ownership, I hope they realise they have to start from zero again and bring down the prices significantly to reflect that.

[Abou Sky]

I try to be an optimist, but I really do beleive the future is bright. Even if the supporters aren't terribly... :-D

I beleive we will make it to CONCACAF finals.

I beleive Mariner is the man for the job in this league.

I beleive the academy is turning out some rock stars.

I beleive Bell & Rogers will redirect all of MLSE because MLSE can make less money while Bell & Rogers make more as a whole due to the vertical integration.

I beleive in our current roster.

I beleive in Terry D.

I beleive in a pit bull on the sidelines who looks like he is going to get us penalized one day for jumping into the game.

In short, I BELEIVE!

[Abou Sky]

Disclaimer to above, I wasn't into TFC until my son got me into TFC so I have near two seasons under my belt instead of 6 so I get that some of you need more sugar to get rid of the bitter flavor in your mouthes.

[Pookie]

For me, the future hinges on a new President with his own vision. He can then make the decision as to whether Mariner is the man to lead us towards it and can allocate resources towards fulfillment of that goal. If that President gets to report directly into the Board, then I am hopeful.

I don't see much reason for optimism under the current (lack of) leadership. Each new coach apparently sets their own vision and none seem to take a long term view. We had a plan, developed by the guy that gave the plan to US Soccer and now most MLS teams are following. We couldn't stand the pain so abandoned it and let one of the guys hired to implement it, change it to suit his own strengths. It's nuts.

Folks above have referenced the Academy as producing rock stars.

Every MLS team has one. Unless ours is the number 1 ranked Academy in North America, at best it will produce talent on par with what other Academies are producing. Which means it will promote parity unless it can be the best in the league.

Given that the talent pool and development model in the US is deeper than what we have in Canada through our current OSA pathways and geographic limitations, it will have a hard time producing the best. Many MLS Academies are set up to produce prospects that are more talented than we can.

Further, under MLS roster rules, the players that come out of our Academy have a very difficult time finding jobs in the USA because of MLS' Roster Rules (CDNs count as Internationals). Therefore, we are producing assets that have little to no trade market value.

Until such time as we become serious, through a vision, that roster management in Canada includes a robust scouting network to ensure that we uncover the best American players out there, utilize the Superdraft and stop trading first round picks (we have traded 3 in 5 years), and ensure that our International players are top of the heap... we will continue to muddle around the bottom of the table. I don't mean to piss on anyone's cornflakes here. Reality is what it is though.

All of the crap comes from the top. Only a change at the top will change our fortunes. If that happens, I'm optimistic.

[ecospice]

The team's core group of players is not bad and pretty young. There is loads of upside and for the first time in 6 years I want to cheer for every player in the starting 11. So that's good for the future. What's bad is the FO does not appear set to change.

[Dkolish3]

I try to be an optimist, but I really do beleive the future is bright. Even if the supporters aren't terribly... :-D

I beleive we will make it to CONCACAF finals.

I beleive Mariner is the man for the job in this league.

I beleive the academy is turning out some rock stars.

I beleive Bell & Rogers will redirect all of MLSE because MLSE can make less money while Bell & Rogers make more as a whole due to the vertical integration.

I beleive in our current roster.

I beleive in Terry D.

I beleive in a pit bull on the sidelines who looks like he is going to get us penalized one day for jumping into the game.

In short, I BELEIVE!

Drink that Kool-aid

[[NBF]]

For me, the future hinges on a new President with his own vision. He can then make the decision as to whether Mariner is the man to lead us towards it and can allocate resources towards fulfillment of that goal. If that President gets to report directly into the Board, then I am hopeful.

I don't see much reason for optimism under the current (lack of) leadership. Each new coach apparently sets their own vision and none seem to take a long term view. We had a plan, developed by the guy that gave the plan to US Soccer and now most MLS teams are following. We couldn't stand the pain so abandoned it and let one of the guys hired to implement it, change it to suit his own strengths. It's nuts.

Folks above have referenced the Academy as producing rock stars.

Every MLS team has one. Unless ours is the number 1 ranked Academy in North America, at best it will produce talent on par with what other Academies are producing. Which means it will promote parity unless it can be the best in the league.

Given that the talent pool and development model in the US is deeper than what we have in Canada through our current OSA pathways and geographic limitations, it will have a hard time producing the best. Many MLS Academies are set up to produce prospects that are more talented than we can.

Further, under MLS roster rules, the players that come out of our Academy have a very difficult time finding jobs in the USA because of MLS' Roster Rules (CDNs count as Internationals). Therefore, we are producing assets that have little to no trade market value.

Until such time as we become serious, through a vision, that roster management in Canada includes a robust scouting network to ensure that we uncover the best American players out there, utilize the Superdraft and stop trading first round picks (we have traded 3 in 5 years), and ensure that our International players are top of the heap... we will continue to muddle around the bottom of the table. I don't mean to piss on anyone's cornflakes here. Reality is what it is though.

All of the crap comes from the top. Only a change at the top will change our fortunes. If that happens, I'm optimistic.

Solid points.

As far as the TFC Academy goes, some of these young players might find it more convinient for them to attend NCAA Universities for four years than to meddle around in MLS Reserves for a year or two. They might be better off going to school in the states (get 4/5 years needed to get citizenship) and possibly upping their value in a draft.

Trading away the top Superdraft picks have hurt this team. Even if the players are on the bench on other MLS teams right now, it would be hard to imagine TFC having that luxury to sit decent young players. The Canadian teams need the Superdraft more than the American teams. As far as the International player slots, this team needs to spend their money wisely on offensive players rather than on a right back. Goal scorers can be traded more easily than the rest.

[Phil]

I don't mind Mariner. I think he is showing basically what we have all wanted for some time now - a manager that knows the leauge, seems to put focus on the opposition and generating a gameplan that is effective and uses our strengths. Its not pretty football but it is better than the defensive bullcrap and it generates better results than we have seen in a while.

As for the future, I have to be optimistic that the ownership change may yeild some postivie results but time will tell. I am still happy to go to BMO and support the team and see everyone in the stands.

Bottom line is I am trying really hard to not let the negativity affect my expereince and support for the team. I acknowlege it and deal with it but I still have a high value and belief in this team and in this group of supporters.

[Oldtimer]

Too soon to tell. Mariner is doing somewhat better than Winter, but not good enough to make the playoffs, let alone make TFC a contender. Only a change brought on by Bell/Rogers can bring hope of better days ahead. Given the priority they've given to ML$E, I don't think that's at all impossible.

[[NBF]]

I don't mind Mariner. I think he is showing basically what we have all wanted for some time now - a manager that knows the leauge, seems to put focus on the opposition and generating a gameplan that is effective and uses our strengths. Its not pretty football but it is better than the defensive bullcrap and it generates better results than we have seen in a while.

As for the future, I have to be optimistic that the ownership change may yeild some postivie results but time will tell. I am still happy to go to BMO and support the team and see everyone in the stands.

Bottom line is I am trying really hard to not let the negativity affect my expereince and support for the team. I acknowlege it and deal with it but I still have a high value and belief in this team and in this group of supporters.

Cough....Cough .......Preki 2.0

[Mr. Bigby]

I believe that children are our future.
Treat them well and let them lead the way.
I believe...

Oh wait...sorry...wrong song...wait, I've got it here somewhere.....

[Greatest Ripoff]

Well with new ownership coming in and it seems like we have an actual core of players

I don't think we have a core at all. Other than Silva, Morgan and Kocic, who do you see being on this team and preforming well 3 years from now? Are there any other standout players for Toronto that offer value to this team in a salary capped league? Will O'Dea offer the team stability at the back end for the right price? Because Eckersley is costing way too much for what he brings to the team.

There are a bunch american players in their mid 20s who careers have stalled that are getting unlimited chances with this team (Amarikwa, Emory, Hall, and Wiedeman) while some of the academy graduates have not been given a chance at all (stinson, cordon and makubuya). If the Academy is the future why not give these players a run out in a lost season to see what they can offer or if they need to be let go?

[Brooker]

On the bright side.... our bleak future as a team did get rid of a lot of part timers, glory hunters and drunken college kids...

That's a reason to celebrate, isn't it?

[Canary10]

I don't mind Mariner. I think he is showing basically what we have all wanted for some time now - a manager that knows the leauge, seems to put focus on the opposition and generating a gameplan that is effective and uses our strengths. Its not pretty football but it is better than the defensive bullcrap and it generates better results than we have seen in a while.

As for the future, I have to be optimistic that the ownership change may yeild some postivie results but time will tell. I am still happy to go to BMO and support the team and see everyone in the stands.

Bottom line is I am trying really hard to not let the negativity affect my expereince and support for the team. I acknowlege it and deal with it but I still have a high value and belief in this team and in this group of supporters.

Are you kidding me? He does the exact opposite of this. His gameplan tweaks are whether to run a flat 4-4-2 or a really flat 4-4-2. He uses players out of position all the time (Silva in particular, who is great in the middle, invisible on the wing). He runs the most basic, text book 4-4-2 with no tactical adjustment.

As for the thread question, we recently made the exact same mistake we've made almost on a yearly basis since we came in the league; we abandoned a playing style before it could ever really get up and running, and started rebuilding a team to match the new style. I can't see us progressing as long as we stay in this cycle of constant change.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I believe in starting a post with "I believe".

I believe in what I can see for the rest of the year.

I believe that Mariner helped the teams results.

I believe the season will look better than it would have without the change in Coach.

I believe that the only constant is change and we all will disagree on how much patience we should have, how much time to give.

I believe the key in the future is knowing we can disagree on points and still agree on the team we support.

Cynic, optimist, supporter.

Enjoy your week off everyone then see you in the stands on Wed.

[TFC07]

I don't think we have a core at all. Other than Silva, Morgan and Kocic, who do you see being on this team and preforming well 3 years from now? Are there any other standout players for Toronto that offer value to this team in a salary capped league? Will O'Dea offer the team stability at the back end for the right price? Because Eckersley is costing way too much for what he brings to the team.

There are a bunch american players in their mid 20s who careers have stalled that are getting unlimited chances with this team (Amarikwa, Emory, Hall, and Wiedeman) while some of the academy graduates have not been given a chance at all (stinson, cordon and makubuya). If the Academy is the future why not give these players a run out in a lost season to see what they can offer or if they need to be let go?

Agreed with this post.

Future doesn't look good right now outside of TFC academy; TFC needs to establish a FO that isn't divided by getting rid of current FO (Mariner and Co) and get a new president (hopefully someone with experience). When that happens, then I would say future will look bright. Players on this team are okay, there some good players with upside while some of other players should have no business playing soccer at all. But I think key factor here is the FO who have been problem since day one. 6 years of their BS (politics) and greed has killed TFC brand in this city. Hopefully new owners see that, make some serious changes (example: reduce ticket prices) win soccer fans back.

[__wowza]

slices are overpriced for what you're getting, they're all previously frozen stuff anyways and not baked on site. the ambiance is pretty laid back, it's a good place to bring people who're new to the city or if you're on a first date and they've never been there or something..




oh, i'm sorry, were we done making future jokes?

[T-boy]

Future is fine for TFC. Every soccer club has peaks and troughs. TFC will get success eventually, probably within the next 2 or 3 seasons. It would only take 1 season of success (reaching the play offs, for example) for TFC to be a huge club and a very marketable assett for MLSE once again. The GTA has a massive reachable audience, and even if the original hardcore supporters all vanished, there would be enough people to replace them if TFC found success. I've "been there done that" with my English team - had years where you think it will never change - but it does. That's football for you!

The academy will continue to produce players - even if they aren't playing 4-3-3 or whatever fancy football people like them to, so the future is good in those regards. The future is also good for Canadian football in general with all the Canadian MLS clubs producting academy players. Toronto will benefit from all of this. The stronger Canadian soccer builds at youth level, the more TFC will benefit over the next few years. The best players will still go to Europe - but not even player can due to visa rules - so TFC, Whitecaps, and Montreal will all benefit from improvements in their academies and in youth football in Canada overall.

[Canary10]

slices are overpriced for what you're getting, they're all previously frozen stuff anyways and not baked on site. the ambiance is pretty laid back, it's a good place to bring people who're new to the city or if you're on a first date and they've never been there or something..




oh, i'm sorry, were we done making future jokes?

Lol. Nice!

[Phil]

Are you kidding me? He does the exact opposite of this. His gameplan tweaks are whether to run a flat 4-4-2 or a really flat 4-4-2. He uses players out of position all the time (Silva in particular, who is great in the middle, invisible on the wing). He runs the most basic, text book 4-4-2 with no tactical adjustment.

As for the thread question, we recently made the exact same mistake we've made almost on a yearly basis since we came in the league; we abandoned a playing style before it could ever really get up and running, and started rebuilding a team to match the new style. I can't see us progressing as long as we stay in this cycle of constant change.

I am not saying its perfect, but when we were 0-9 we were all scrambling and questioning things. The big game for me was home to Chicago when their forwards slammed in and scored so early. Alarm bells went off in my head that it *looks* like Winter is not doing any scouting or has any idea of the indivdual and team dangers each side in the MLS brings.

Mariner has demonstrated a knowlege of the league and opposition - that has been something that pre-dates the Preki era - it was something most in this group and outside of it placed a high value on.

Mistakes continue to happen but that is sports and football in particular. We have to give Mariner some rope (maybe to hang himself) but at this point I think he has achived enough in the short term to warrent so patience from me at least.

I certainly think there is some value in being critical of the team, and being a supporter makes it all that more important. However I do think the constant negativity has long term damage on supporters and I am just trying to point out some of the silver linings I see.

[Canary10]

I certainly think there is some value in being critical of the team, and being a supporter makes it all that more important. However I do think the constant negativity has long term damage on supporters and I am just trying to point out some of the silver linings I see.

That's totally fair, and you're right. The constant negativity is a drain on the enthusiasm for the team.

[Redcoe15]

You have a very difficult job as Fearless Leader, Phil. I commend you for all the hard work you do for this group while maintaining a positive attitude.

[Phil]

You have a very difficult job as Fearless Leader, Phil. I commend you for all the hard work you do for this group while maintaining a positive attitude.

Hey when you are as low as we have been for 6 years there is nowhere to go but up!

Right!

Right?!

Ummmmm, okay its Friday

Once I lose that positivity something will be broken in my soul.

[Redcoe15]

Hey when you are as low as we have been for 6 years there is nowhere to go but up!

Right!

Right?!

Right!

[Gazza]

I am optimistic that one day in the near future, Terry Dunfield will be wearing a TFC "Greatness Has Been Found" t-shirt.