Canadian national anthem and TFC scarfs: Your opinion?

[asterix606]

I wanted to get other fans opinion on this subject:


I find it disrespectful to the Canadian national anthem when people lift their TFC scarfs.

- The national anthem should be listened (and chanted if you wish) with your arms down by your side.
- The national anthem has nothing to do with TFC, and more importantly TFC has nothing to do with our anthem. It is a sports team run by a business conglomerate.
-We remove our hats during the anthem. Why lift a sports team scarf during the sacred process?

Respect must be given back to the national anthem at TFC games!

Should we not be raising our scarfs proudly after the completion of the anthem?

[TFC07]

I think it's stupid to play national anthems for a club game in general.

Save national anthems when Canada plays.

[Richard]

I think it's stupid to play national anthems for a club game in general.

Save national anthems when Canada plays.

I agree, especially NHL and NBA games.

[colman1860]

You acknowledge that the anthem has nothing to do with TFC. Make the next obvious logical step to realizing that it's completely unnecessary at club games.

[asterix606]

You acknowledge that the anthem has nothing to do with TFC. Make the next obvious logical step to realizing that it's completely unnecessary at club games.

For sure! I'm with all of you when it comes to not playing the anthem. But, I doubt that they will stop playing the anthem at NHL, NBA and MLS games. But the anthem is also a great way to get the atmosphere up!

I just wish that fans would respect the anthem and not raise their scarfs during the duration of it.

[james]

seriosuly your making to big of a deal. I dont care if people want to raise there scarfs or not. Scarfs have been held up durring the national anthem since day 1 at BMO field, fans show pride in there team by waving flags, holding scarfs up exc. i mean we are at a soccer game here to watch TFC. If you are offended by this then you are seriously putting to much thought into it and thats your own problem because no one is doing it to be disraspectful, they are just having fun and excited about the game coming up. However i do agree the national anthem is not needed for club games, national anthem is over done in this country, CFL games, NHL, NBA, MLB, MLS....over kill. Its a bit much , but overall its not really a big deal for me if they keep the anthem or not!

[Wolfe]

I agree, I have never and will never raise my scarf. I was taught at a young age to remove my hat stand straight with my arms at my side or on my heart and STFU. I can't believe how many disrespectful fucks there are in this country and ML$E doesn't help

[mowe]

I can't believe how many disrespectful fucks there are in this country and ML$E doesn't help

To be fair, the people who raise their scarf aren't doing it to be disrespectful. Some people just see it as a show of pride.

But yeah, add me to the petition to remove the national anthem from club games. Won't happen though, no one wants to be labeled treasonous.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

this thread is useless!

[PAOK17]

The thing is, I don't even understand how it gets the atmosphere going at a club game! It's one thing before a national team match but to have it played for a match in which there could potentially be no Canadians in the game (or perhaps more for the visiting team, etc.)??? What does Torsten Frings think when he hears Oh Canada? It won't pump him up.

However, I'm sure we are in the minority for wanting no anthems. There are a lot of people who will say they want it for no other reason (because they can't think of a good one) than "It's tradition" to have it played in North America. I mean just consider how there is a collective effort made by the supporter groups to start singing Oh Canada for CCL matches. Even though the team we are playing is Mexican or American, it's still silly to have it for a club match.

I'd much rather have a team song...whether it's an already existing song like how many English teams adapt them (ie You will never walk alone) or an original one. I'm no Liverpool fan, but I have a funny feeling that their players respond better to hearing that than ours will ever to Oh Canada.

[Yagbod]

So someone, a long time ago, decided it was disrespectful to wear a hat or lift your arms during a national anthem. This 'fashion' caught on and now someone else is telling me how to behave.

I think it is disrespectful to not celebrate your nation by not waving your arms or a flag or a scarf.

Who is right? 50 years from now there maybe someone lecturing my decedents for not waving their scarf during an anthem. Traditions and actions are as organic as the people who exercise them.

You want to follow old customs? Knock yourself out. Just keep your old religion to yourself.

[Abou Sky]

If they removed the National Anthem at club games I would do the same as I do at CONCACAF, sing anyway.

I think that it is a show of pride.

I consider myself a nationalist, part of the reason I think Canada is so cool is that I can be a nationalist without being a racist.

Anyway, I sing the anthem at all opportunities. Any time my boys are late to school I stop them, and any other kid (sometimes teachers... Grrr...) to sing.

[khso11]

It's not gonna change, it doesn't matter, we did this since day one, it's our tradition, I will do it at every TFC game.

[TOBOR !]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Cashcleaner]

You see, the problem I have with some of these arguments against the anthem, is that often the differing view boils down to something along the lines of: "Well, in England/France/Spain/Italy/Germany they don't sing the anthems for domestic league matches, therefore to be proper soccer fans we shouldn't either". (Please note, I'm not saying that's what the reason is for everyone, but what I hear the most.)

Anyways, that line of thinking doesn't work for me for a few reasons. Firstly, the tradition of singing the anthems in North America is far more relevant to us than any tradition of NOT singing the anthems. What I've been taught is the practice was unique to Canada and the US and goes back to the days of World War I when the anthem was played for all sorts of public gatherings. That is to say, it's a uniquely Canadian/American tradition to begin with, so why would we want to drop that for something else? If it boils down to following a tradition started here or one started in Europe or elsewhere, I'm afraid I'm sticking with the home side on this one.

Secondly, as pre-game preparation and anticipation goes, the singing of the anthem doesn't seem to cause any harm. From a logistical standpoint there's no huge hassle involved in taking 4 minutes to play them prior to kick-off - especially when you consider how much time is spent on announcing the starting XIs, match officials, and other game-related details.

As for not holding up scarves, I really don't know what's going through the head of the OP. Raising the scarf is fundamentally no different than waving a flag - they are both a display of our national and local identities (consider the colours and imagery used by the club), and I can't see how any reasonable and intelligent person would construe that as something even remotely disrespectful.

[RicoSuave44]

^^^ well said Cash

[Jack]

I agree, I have never and will never raise my scarf. I was taught at a young age to remove my hat stand straight with my arms at my side or on my heart and STFU. I can't believe how many disrespectful fucks there are in this country and ML$E doesn't help

Surely you're not equating me holding my scarf up and singing my national anthem in full voice with me being a disrespectful fuck. It's a practice we have had at games since the beginning and MLSE sort of latched onto it. If you want to stand at attention, feel free, I'll express my pride in and love for Canada in a different way.

[Flipityflu]

wow, bored or something. i served in the Canadian and British military, and i raise my scarf for both my anthems. if you think i'm disrespectful, i suggest you can go fuck yourself.


as for the side debate on the playing the National anthem, i like it. its distinctly North American, it gets great response, and O Canada is a fantastic song.

[TFC07]

You see, the problem I have with some of these arguments against the anthem, is that often the differing view boils down to something along the lines of: "Well, in England/France/Spain/Italy/Germany they don't sing the anthems for domestic league matches, therefore to be proper soccer fans we shouldn't either". (Please note, I'm not saying that's what the reason is for everyone, but what I hear the most.)

Anyways, that line of thinking doesn't work for me for a few reasons. Firstly, the tradition of singing the anthems in North America is far more relevant to us than any tradition of NOT singing the anthems. What I've been taught is the practice was unique to Canada and the US and goes back to the days of World War I when the anthem was played for all sorts of public gatherings. That is to say, it's a uniquely Canadian/American tradition to begin with, so why would we want to drop that for something else? If it boils down to following a tradition started here or one started in Europe or elsewhere, I'm afraid I'm sticking with the home side on this one.

Secondly, as pre-game preparation and anticipation goes, the singing of the anthem doesn't seem to cause any harm. From a logistical standpoint there's no huge hassle involved in taking 4 minutes to play them prior to kick-off - especially when you consider how much time is spent on announcing the starting XIs, match officials, and other game-related details.

As for not holding up scarves, I really don't know what's going through the head of the OP. Raising the scarf is fundamentally no different than waving a flag - they are both a display of our national and local identities (consider the colours and imagery used by the club), and I can't see how any reasonable and intelligent person would construe that as something even remotely disrespectful.

Times have change. We rarely do this "tradition" anymore outside of sports. TFC isn't team Canada nor they represent Canada; They're representing and playing for Toronto.

Besides, some people don't like having national anthem (and other nationalistic/political issues) shove down our throats all the time at local sporting events.

[[NBF]]

wow, bored or something. i served in the Canadian and British military, and i raise my scarf for both my anthems. if you think i'm disrespectful, i suggest you can go fuck yourself.


as for the side debate on the playing the National anthem, i like it. its distinctly North American, it gets great response, and O Canada is a fantastic song.

First of all, you dont get to tell me to fuck off you flipityfuck.


Second, I agree with your second statement. Problem is I think the opposing team at BMO Field gets more pumped up over the "Star Bengal Banner" than our own team does for "O Canada". The American players I think get demoralized when the Canadian anthem is played for a Canadian team in an american league.

[Suds]

Personally, I don't see how singing your national anthem holding a scarf is ever disrespectful. I see way more disrespectful stuff going on when the anthems are played. This would be the least of my concerns when it comes to respecting the anthem.

[Huyton]

I like it. I think it's a great tradition. When I go to other sporting events and people just stand there, I get annoyed. Hell, at many other sporting events they show the words on a screen, with the inference that the people attending don't know the words.

There have been few moments in Toronto like the mass singing of O Canada before the first CONCACAF game four years ago.

The stadium looked impressive as hell and sounded great...it made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

Standing, removing your hat, singing (loudly) and holding your scarf high is part of the game when TFC plays.

According to the Government of Canada website ( http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/ceem-cced/s...em-eng.cfm#a11 ) regarding etiquette, the following can be found:

Etiquette during the playing of the national anthem

As a matter of respect and tradition, it is proper to stand for the playing of "O Canada" as well as for the anthem of any other nation.
It is traditional for civilian men to take off their hats during the playing of the national anthem. Women as well as children do not remove their hats on such occasions.
There is no law or behaviour governing the playing of the national anthem; it is left to the good citizenship of individuals.


There is nothing in there about standing to attention. Nothing about holding your hand over your heart. Nothing about not singing. Nothing there that says I'm a "disrespectful fuck" if I do anything other than "stand straight with my arms at my side or on my heart and STFU."

So...I will continue to Stand, Remove my hat, hold my scarf up high and sing loudly (if badly) "O Canada" whenever and wherever TFC plays.

You don't like it?

Well, let me do that most Canadian of things and say "I'm sorry you think I'm being disrepectful", and then do something unCanadian by carrying on regardless.

[Suds]

^^
so it's you who's always off key

[sully]

I always found it really odd that the anthems are played before every game- but I'm a "new Canadian" so I suppose it was a new concept to me. I think it should only be played when Canada are playing. To play it before every single game dissolves it's relevance in my opinion.

Actually what really bugs me re the pre-match is that the stadium announcer sounds like a constipated little girl with a speech impediment. For god sake just say the names like a normal human being...

[jaahuuu]

Personally, I don't see how singing your national anthem holding a scarf is ever disrespectful. I see way more disrespectful stuff going on when the anthems are played. This would be the least of my concerns when it comes to respecting the anthem.

I agree, holding up the scarf is nothing compared to fucking around on a smartphone or completely ignoring the anthems altogether and talking to people standing enxt to you.

Hell, at many other sporting events they show the words on a screen, with the inference that the people attending don't know the words.

I like that they do that, as a little kid that's how I learned the words to the anthems of both the US and Canada.

[Huyton]

I always found it really odd that the anthems are played before every game- but I'm a "new Canadian" so I suppose it was a new concept to me. I think it should only be played when Canada are playing. To play it before every single game dissolves it's relevance in my opinion.

Actually what really bugs me re the pre-match is that the stadium announcer sounds like a constipated little girl with a speech impediment. For god sake just say the names like a normal human being...

You should be grateful O Canada is no longer done before movies and plays.

[Carts]

I LOVE the fact we PROUDLY play and sing our national anthem before every match...

I hope its something that never changes at BMO, or the ACC, or my local Jr.A hockey rink in Pickering...

We come together, IN CANADA, the majority of the crowd CANADIANS, and sing our anthem together - what a wonderful thing...

The only change I would make if I was TFC, is stop the 'hold your scarf up high' announcement - not because its disrespectful (its not, we're proudly holding the scarf of a great Canadian city) but because the stadium is 50% empty during the anthem and it has no impact / sounds off...

Carts...

[tfc2008]

this thread is useless!

This is so true you guys have nothing els todo then talking stuppid

[Yagbod]

This is so true you guys have nothing els todo then talking stuppid

^This is a great post. Well done. "I see what you are doing there".

[dupont]

I usually do a mash up where I sing Kanye West lyrics over the anthem to give it a new fresh twist.