PRE/IN/POST GAME TFC vs Houston Dynamo Saturday, July 28th @ 4:30pm

[Chris Wren]

Ah Chris - you sound like you have had a bad week. Your post here did make me laugh however - thank you!

A tone deaf drummer annoyed you? HaHaHaHa! Christ that is funny!!! Who gives a rat's ass if he is tone deaf???? You may want him to keep a beat, or perhaps have rhythm, but who cares if he is tone deaf??

Also, if you remove him from 112, where do you want to put him? 113?

I suppose one solution would be for me to phone up a few Tribal Rythm Nation guys and have them stand right beside you. I'm sure they could ensure you didn't hear RPB's Keith Moon

Lets face it percussionists are a persecuted breed - they just don't get no respect. Give the guy kudos for trying to give it a go! Whining in public about RPB's Keith Moon is really is not on, even if you do find it annoying.

Yeah, give him a cookie for the effort.

What does TRN have to do with anything? They're annoying, and so is the guy in 112. He pretty much drums like them, all over the place...sort of like he's got his own tune playing in his head.

Once again, the RPB can do no wrong.

This my last post. Please close this account.

[tiberius]

Yeah, give him a cookie for the effort.

What does TRN have to do with anything? They're annoying, and so is the guy in 112. He pretty much drums like them, all over the place...sort of like he's got his own tune playing in his head.

Once again, the RPB can do no wrong.

If you can't stand tone deaf drummers, go sit in the prawn seats. Last I checked, flags, drums, two sticks and farting were all allowed at the south end - its like you are complaining that grass is green...

[maxpower]

Not meaning to be a prick, but this actually made me laugh.

So what you're saying is "Things could be much worse off. We could have a MUCH better squad who's currently in a playoff spot"?

I believe F.O. could use you for their seasons ticket renewals campaign.

We could still have winter as our coach and lose close to every game, or every game.

[jazzy]

People seem to think if we had a good CB we should have won against Houston. Can a good CB score goals? Keep possession for the whole team? Mark every opposition player on corner kicks? Gimme a break

An MLS team that starts Quincy A, Terry Dunfield, Reggie Lambe, Logan Emery, a 390k right back in a CB position and a 19 year old CB in a RB position are going to lose most of their games. Danny K was just saving the team when he played.

\

basically.....that's all there is to say.........no matter how we colour it!.....oh and it wasn't any fun, the boys really seemed lost without a leader,..and it can't be the coach......DK,...earned it,...thats done

[Fort York Redcoat]

Yeah, I'm sure if I walked down there and volunteered it would be easy to just take over. We all know how respected TFC fans are who aren't paid RPB members are.

How many bad days does this drum need to have? I know it was a different guy this week, and he was horrible. If you can't admit that....I just don't know what to say anymore. It was awful. No drum is better than that garbage. If you can't do it close to anything sounding good, then don't do it at all. Is it just something that is done so that people can feel good and talk about the contribution they have made? Should he be patted on the head for trying?

I am voicing my displeasure because it's annoying. Maybe you don't realize that people all around can hear it, and it effects the intensity with which people want to join chants. If they are being thrown off by a bad beat they don't feel like competing against it and don't join in. It's counterproductive.

On a side note, good job with once again chanting against U Sector. It happened multiple times. This is year 6 now and this crap is still happening. They were also far more vocal and supportive than 112, which looked like a dead zone accept for the 8 or so who crowd around the drum entertaining themselves.

This is your contribution. Got it.

[T-boy]

I know you've ALL been waiting with baited breathe for my justification to this game, and to back up Mariner! So here goes....haha!

That game was utter crap! End of story!

Ok, I'll say more.

1. I thought it was a massive error by Mariner to tinker with the team this week, especially putting Silva out on the right. BIG mistake. Silva is the one player who can thread a ball between players, as proven in the Colorado game. Putting him out on the wing just took Silva out of the game completely, and he couldn't dictate the play at all. He might as well not have been playing. He's wasted in a wide area. I'd say we equally missed Avila's energy this week. Mariner should have changed the team much quicker than he did - put Avila out on the wing, take off Amariwank, and put Silva in the middle at half time at the latest. I may have even done that in the first half, it was so obvious that Silva was ineffective in his position, and Amariwank wasn't giving anywhere near as much to the game as Avila has been lately.

2. I love Ecks - but his distribution was utterly awful on Saturday! If anybody wants to call the game hoofball, you might as well call is Eckersleyball! The kid has a wonderful tackle on him, and he saved TFC multiple times - only to get the ball and look up, and sky the ball either out of play, or to Tally Hall! Emory, on the other hand, although you could argue he was playing long ball - was LOOKING UP and playing a ball to a TFC player. His ball may not have always reached its target, but at least he was aiming. Eckersley, on the other hand, was hitting the ball to the invisible man, or the touchline, or Hall! That's where TFC's game broke upart on mutliple occassions in this game.

3. Man, MLS is horrible football. Those who still argue that MLS is lower Premiership level still, need to get their eyes tested! I hardly ever watch a full MLS game, if TFC aren't involved in it. I've tried to watch a few Whitecaps and Impact games this season, and some other games when they happen to be on our TV, but usually I get bored of the midfield melee that goes on every game. And this game was typical of that. I can live with it when TFC win as there is at least something to celebrate. But, this game was all midfield third, hardly any attacks. Both teams held down the midfield and meant that the majority of "chances" were long shots, at best. The goal lines might as well have been brought into the centre circle and we could watch the ball bob around 10 yards from the centre line. Neither team had any imagination of how to move the ball or spread the play quickly. That wasn't jsut down to TFC, that was equally Houston too. For a neutral football supporter, that must have been the worst entertainment imaginable! That wasn't due to 4-3-3, 4-4-2, hoofball, or anything other than a vast lack of quality ALL over the field from both sides.

[starter]

Well, I think Huston played an excellent away game, with 60% quality ball control. TFC got rid of natural quality wide players, to secure the new regime position IMO, and brought in new guys most of us here have no emotional attachment to. And they supposed to provide a spark? Hmm...

[ManUtd4ever]

I was in cottage country so I couldn't watch the game. It sounds like we played a stinker. It happens.

The real test will be how this team responds in their next outing.

[SoccMan]

They let Soolsma go and Plata two players that had the potential to make things happen on the field, two players that were exciting to watch, Avilla another player with loads of talent and skill sits on the bench the entire Houston game even when they were down and needed some offensive spark, instead the changes that were made in the Houston game were defensive ones ,insanity. Moreover, for the people who love to be critical of the level of play in the MLS yes it's not comparable to the big leagues in Europe, however, it's not as bad as people on here like to make it out to be, don't compare the garbage that TFC puts out there year in and year out, the level of play is much better than what a TFC game looks like, there is a reason that after almost 6 seasons this team is still garbage, simply because they are not in the same league as most teams in this league, their record is proof just look at the standings this year and the previous 5 seasons!

[starter]

They let Soolsma go and Plata two players that had the potential to make things happen on the field, two players that were exciting to watch, Avilla another player with loads of talent and skill sits on the bench the entire Houston game even when they were down and needed some offensive spark, instead the changes that were made in the Houston game were defensive ones ,insanity. Moreover, for the people who love to be critical of the level of play in the MLS yes it's not comparable to the big leagues in Europe, however, it's not as bad as people on here like to make it out to be, don't compare the garbage that TFC puts out there year in and year out, the level of play is much better than what a TFC game looks like, there is a reason that after almost 6 seasons this team is still garbage, simply because they are not in the same league as most teams in this league, their record is proof just look at the standings this year and the previous 5 seasons!

By dismantling the team we have built over the last 18 months and degrading to the comfort level of Terri Dunfield, we are not building a competitor. Winters team had most of the ingredients to be successful, but what we see is a another rebuild, but this is an unnecessary one.

[T-boy]

I don't buy into the "plata and soolsma" would have made a difference thing. They didn't make a difference earlier in the season, so why are we all suggesting that those two players would make any difference in this game? Both are flair players, for sure, but those two along would not have won this game. Plata earlier this season was clearly half the player of last season, even under Winter. The vast majority of the team is still the same as it was under Winter, Mariner hasn't done the wholesale changes that some of you are suggesting. Plata leaving (who wasn't playing every game under Winter) and Soolsma (who was injured earlier in the season) hasn't made that much of a difference, as far as I can see?

[Pookie]

I don't buy into the "plata and soolsma" would have made a difference thing. They didn't make a difference earlier in the season... and Soolsma (who was injured earlier in the season)...

Hard to make a difference if you are injured isn't it?

Soolsma has 2 offers from the Dutch Premier League at present (Excelsior and SC Cambuur). I'm sure he could have made some contribution to the last place team in Major League Soccer

[starter]

Along with demanding but promising system, we quietly throwing away the pieces of it, making sure there is no return. Plata/Soolsma were integral parts of it, competing for playing time. New guys have almost no competition in this DM-loaded formation, they do not have any chemistry with the rest of the team, and they did not seem to be in demand anywhere either. It is better not to get too emotionally attached to them, since they likely will not last here anyway. It is really sad.

[Section 117]

I don't buy into the "plata and soolsma" would have made a difference thing. They didn't make a difference earlier in the season, so why are we all suggesting that those two players would make any difference in this game? Both are flair players, for sure, but those two along would not have won this game. Plata earlier this season was clearly half the player of last season, even under Winter. The vast majority of the team is still the same as it was under Winter, Mariner hasn't done the wholesale changes that some of you are suggesting. Plata leaving (who wasn't playing every game under Winter) and Soolsma (who was injured earlier in the season) hasn't made that much of a difference, as far as I can see?

The difference between pre Mariner and post Mariner was Kovermans scoring which masked the utter shit football we have been playing under him. By removing two of your more "flair" players you limit the options for a subsitute to have an poistive impact on the game. Why cut players when there are no replacements? Why not keep them until you find the right players or is he is just so bloody ignorant to anyone with skill that they get cut/loaned out/trade etc.

But when you have a great FO like ours you just dump players and get MLS rejects. One who was touted by our great leader as "one of the modern games greatest finishers" and Americka fuck yeah!!! I would like to know how Mariner gets a pass for the utter shit players he has brought to this club? I really don't feel like listing them all of them but wtf. He is on par with Mo for the lack of quality signings he has made for this team.

So really at the end of day we will see more games like this one against Houston then the one against Colorado. The MLS is significantly better then it was when we entered the league 6 years ago, the problem is we are regressing tactially. Mariner should not have been hired and if he was the only option then he should have kept the formation as hoofball died in the eighties for the most part unless you are Roy Hodgson and the English National team.

BTW did anyone see how well Nesta played against New York? But why would need a CB like that?????

[v00d00daddy]

It's not nearly as much about players as it is about style of play.

When a team is satisfied with giving their opponent 2/3 of the game on the ball you're gonna end up getting your ass handed to you when you face a decent team.

Houston was not all world by any means but they didn't need to be.

They were content to keep the ball and wait for their opportunities.

TFC, on the other hand, didnt have any opportunities. Probably because the hottest player in the league wasn't there to help and because (like T boy mentioned) they didnt use any creative players in the middle of the field to worry Houston.

This is what we're going to look like as long as we keep believing that possession isn't important.

If mariner believes that he may as well go back to the 80's

[Brooker]

More drama in here than an episode of Degrassi Jr High. Perhaps some people need a break from TFC.

Missed the go train took a cab---50$
2 Big beers----------------------28$
Train back home-----------------9$
Cab ride back-------------------16$
1 Pizza Slice--------------------6$
1 TFC TICKET--------------------41$

150$ to see a shit show------renew my SS NO WAY

Missing go trains, taking taxis, buying overpriced food, buying overpriced beer (all things I've done myself, mind you)...... Surely you're mad at yourself and not TFC?

[Pookie]

^ this is just an opinion, though my belief is that when de Klerk was moved out and Winter eventually left the club, both Soolsma and Plata felt that they would have better options elsewhere.

Plata, a young developing player, opted to return home.

Soolsma, who likely followed the Ajax men over here, has opted to resume his career in the Netherlands. He didn't waste any time in moving back and never took a look at any MLS opportunities.

My guess is that both felt that staying here in Toronto (or in Soolsma's case, NA) would not be the best moves of their careers. Plata has more time than Soolsma has given ages and both started to dust off their resumes as those coaching changes happened.

Just a gut feel backed up by circumstantial evidence.

[Richard]

Soolsma probably had the most substance about him on this team behind Koevs,he could beat defenders in 1v1 and cross a half decent ball most of the time. I tend to agree about Plata though, i think he must have gotten figured out( also never seemed to pass when needed).

[T-boy]

^ this is just an opinion, though my belief is that when de Klerk was moved out and Winter eventually left the club, both Soolsma and Plata felt that they would have better options elsewhere.

Plata, a young developing player, opted to return home.

Soolsma, who likely followed the Ajax men over here, has opted to resume his career in the Netherlands. He didn't waste any time in moving back and never took a look at any MLS opportunities.

My guess is that both felt that staying here in Toronto (or in Soolsma's case, NA) would not be the best moves of their careers. Plata has more time than Soolsma has given ages and both started to dust off their resumes as those coaching changes happened.

Just a gut feel backed up by circumstantial evidence.

Agreed.

I don't think it was the MLS keeping either player with the team. For Plata, I'm not sure. It kinda seems to be the case that he was playing for a the new contract - got it, and was then poor ever since, even with Winter. He then wanted to leave as soon as Winter went.
Soolsma was definitely playing for Winter - there is no doubt. I doubt that he would have stayed whoever was new manager. I don't think the system or the club or the leageu was the appeal of his in Toronto, it was solely down to Aron Winter being here.

[starter]

It's not nearly as much about players as it is about style of play.

True, even though as you watch these payers develop you can not help but root for individuals as well. And it hurts when they forced to leave the team, without reason other then not fitting in the a**-backward system we are installing here now. Their reason could have been that they have nothing to learn here any more, and this should be scary for those of us who cares.

[cochrdoc]

We didn`t win with Plata or Soolsma last year and weren`t winning with them this year.I bet both players struggle to get first team minutes on their clubs back home.The only thing is that we picked up 2 players who struggled to get playing time with their MLS clubs.WE need to pick up players who are going to put starters on the bench to get better

[T-boy]

We didn`t win with Plata or Soolsma last year and weren`t winning with them this year.I bet both players struggle to get first team minutes on their clubs back home.The only thing is that we picked up 2 players who struggled to get playing time with their MLS clubs.WE need to pick up players who are going to put starters on the bench to get better

If Plata and Soolsma didn't want to play for TFC, then they are best gone.

If we have replaced them with two guys who WANT to play for TFC, then I'm fine with that. I don't think either Wiedeman or Amarikwa are any answer for TFC in the long term, but I'd much prefer a couple of guys who WANT to play for the badge rather than two players who only wanted to be here because of the old coach. Wiedeman and Amerikwa both want to prove they are worthy of a long term contract, so they have all to play for the rest of the season.

[stevep]

Exactly

I know you've ALL been waiting with baited breathe for my justification to this game, and to back up Mariner! So here goes....haha!

That game was utter crap! End of story!

Ok, I'll say more.

1. I thought it was a massive error by Mariner to tinker with the team this week, especially putting Silva out on the right. BIG mistake. Silva is the one player who can thread a ball between players, as proven in the Colorado game. Putting him out on the wing just took Silva out of the game completely, and he couldn't dictate the play at all. He might as well not have been playing. He's wasted in a wide area. I'd say we equally missed Avila's energy this week. Mariner should have changed the team much quicker than he did - put Avila out on the wing, take off Amariwank, and put Silva in the middle at half time at the latest. I may have even done that in the first half, it was so obvious that Silva was ineffective in his position, and Amariwank wasn't giving anywhere near as much to the game as Avila has been lately.

2. I love Ecks - but his distribution was utterly awful on Saturday! If anybody wants to call the game hoofball, you might as well call is Eckersleyball! The kid has a wonderful tackle on him, and he saved TFC multiple times - only to get the ball and look up, and sky the ball either out of play, or to Tally Hall! Emory, on the other hand, although you could argue he was playing long ball - was LOOKING UP and playing a ball to a TFC player. His ball may not have always reached its target, but at least he was aiming. Eckersley, on the other hand, was hitting the ball to the invisible man, or the touchline, or Hall! That's where TFC's game broke upart on mutliple occassions in this game.

3. Man, MLS is horrible football. Those who still argue that MLS is lower Premiership level still, need to get their eyes tested! I hardly ever watch a full MLS game, if TFC aren't involved in it. I've tried to watch a few Whitecaps and Impact games this season, and some other games when they happen to be on our TV, but usually I get bored of the midfield melee that goes on every game. And this game was typical of that. I can live with it when TFC win as there is at least something to celebrate. But, this game was all midfield third, hardly any attacks. Both teams held down the midfield and meant that the majority of "chances" were long shots, at best. The goal lines might as well have been brought into the centre circle and we could watch the ball bob around 10 yards from the centre line. Neither team had any imagination of how to move the ball or spread the play quickly. That wasn't jsut down to TFC, that was equally Houston too. For a neutral football supporter, that must have been the worst entertainment imaginable! That wasn't due to 4-3-3, 4-4-2, hoofball, or anything other than a vast lack of quality ALL over the field from both sides.

[starter]

We didn`t win with Plata or Soolsma last year and weren`t winning with them this year.I bet both players struggle to get first team minutes on their clubs back home.The only thing is that we picked up 2 players who struggled to get playing time with their MLS clubs.WE need to pick up players who are going to put starters on the bench to get better

I do not think that our loosing was exactly Soolsma or Plata fault, but to your next suggestion to find better players, who in this 442 they will compete with?
Frings and Dunfield are locks with PM, so you want somebody better then Silva/Avila/Lambe for the rest of 2 spots? Somebody experienced, perhaps close to the end of their career? Would that be exciting?
We have blown an opportunity to build this team properly.

[T-boy]

I do not think that our loosing was exactly Soolsma or Plata fault, but to your next suggestion to find better players, who in this 442 they will compete with?
Frings and Dunfield are locks with PM, so you want somebody better then Silva/Avila/Lambe for the rest of 2 spots? Somebody experienced, perhaps close to the end of their career? Would that be exciting?
We have blown an opportunity to build this team properly.

I don't think he's talking about the midfield, more defence and possibly attack.

I'd personally want Ecks moved back to full back, as he's the best FB we have (and much better at FB than CB, as his distribution is terrible from CB!). Emory isn't a starter at CB - he's a good depth player, but not a starter for every game. Equally Henry isn't a starter YET.

The midfield of Dunfield, Frings, and a mix of either Lambe, Avila, Silva is a fairly decent midfield IMO.

Then up front Hassli will be ok, I think. I remain sceptical of Johnson's ability - he tries hard enough, but really he shouldn't be a starter every game.

If TFFC had around 3 new players right now, I think we would be a very decent team. Two CB's would really change the defense, and then a better starter than Johnson to work with Hassli would really change the attack. I think there is where the starters need to move to bench players (Hall/Henry, and Emory need to be bench depth players, and Johnson needs competition up front).

[Pookie]

If Plata and Soolsma didn't want to play for TFC, then they are best gone.

If we have replaced them with two guys who WANT to play for TFC, then I'm fine with that. I don't think either Wiedeman or Amarikwa are any answer for TFC in the long term, but I'd much prefer a couple of guys who WANT to play for the badge rather than two players who only wanted to be here because of the old coach. Wiedeman and Amerikwa both want to prove they are worthy of a long term contract, so they have all to play for the rest of the season.

I get the sentiment.

However, you need to get what the league is or I'm afraid you are setting yourself up for failure. It is a development league.

Not one kid in Canada aspires to play for TFC as the ultimate of their career. TFC (and MLS) are at present and at least in the near future, a stepping stone to bigger things.

Hockey mad kids don't grow up dreaming of playing for the Toronto Marlies or Hamilton Bull Dogs. They might play their butts off while there but their end goal is to graduate to bigger and better. If your path is blocked at an AHL club, you will seek to resign with a club that will give you the opportunity, regardless of the crest on the jersey.

That is exactly what Plata is doing. Moving back to a team he thinks he stands a better chance at playing and developing for his end goal.

If your aspiration is to play for the Columbus Crew, Sporting Kansas City or Toronto FC, you need to aim higher.

[starter]

I don't think he's talking about the midfield, more defence and possibly attack.

I'd personally want Ecks moved back to full back, as he's the best FB we have (and much better at FB than CB, as his distribution is terrible from CB!). Emory isn't a starter at CB - he's a good depth player, but not a starter for every game. Equally Henry isn't a starter YET.

The midfield of Dunfield, Frings, and a mix of either Lambe, Avila, Silva is a fairly decent midfield IMO.

Then up front Hassli will be ok, I think. I remain sceptical of Johnson's ability - he tries hard enough, but really he shouldn't be a starter every game.

If TFFC had around 3 new players right now, I think we would be a very decent team. Two CB's would really change the defense, and then a better starter than Johnson to work with Hassli would really change the attack. I think there is where the starters need to move to bench players (Hall/Henry, and Emory need to be bench depth players, and Johnson needs competition up front).

Honestly, with the Frings/Dunfield anchoring our middle we are already slow, and possession-challenged ( thanks to Terri).
Huston defence controlling a ball was pleasure to watch, we on the other hand, were either booting it or passing it to DMs who booted it up as well. There was no build-up intention other than via long ball, and it was so simple my Sunday team can play this style as well with similar possession retention stats!
It was just ugly, and hard to watch.

[OgtheDim]

Amerikwa and Johnston are the same style...neither of them want to be link men. Silva does. Not sure why Mariner went with that lineup but at least its proven that Amerikwa is a sub, not a starter.

[narduch]

Soolsma has 2 offers from the Dutch Premier League at present (Excelsior and SC Cambuur). I'm sure he could have made some contribution to the last place team in Major League Soccer

Just wanted to clear this up. Those aren't Eredevisie clubs. They both play in the Dutch 1st Division, which is the 2nd tier in the Dutch pyramid.

Excelsior is recently relegated from the top flight and Cambuur was mid-table last year.