POSSESSION vs DIRECT/COUNTER ATTACKING/PARK THE BUS STYLE

[trane]

Really, i've wanted to be wrong but i don't know how anyone sees mariner as an improvement. I agree with a lot of what spark said above. I think winter had a lot of bad breaks and mariner has had some good ones. Not enough to say we should have kept winter, but just to say that tfc games (other than one or two) were infinitely better to watch than they are now.

And other than the brief bump we had when mariner took over (remember the team was playing really well then anyway) this team has looked dismal. They do everything my sons u8 team is coached not to do. We are playing neither possession nor counter attacking football. We are playing a kick and hope style that is painful to watch.

I am not a fan of mariner. As I said I would have fired him, as he was part of the regime, and I would not have thrown the system out with the coach, adjusted it certainly, but the total change I was not for. I do not like and have not liked what I have seen from Mariner on the pitch, but he got results, and to me that is the bottom line. Do not get me wrong he is not the future, unless he pulls a miracle, and it certainly seemineg less likely. I would not have hired him.
I do not like his style of play. It is far from the style that I would have played. I said it before, I liked what winter was trying to do, but trying and doing are two different things.

[Blizzard]

I am not a fan of mariner. As I said I would have fired him, as he was part of the regime, and I would not have thrown the system out with the coach, adjusted it certainly, but the total change I was not for. I do not like and have not liked what I have seen from Mariner on the pitch, but he got results, and to me that is the bottom line. Do not get me wrong he is not the future, unless he pulls a miracle, and it certainly seemineg less likely. I would not have hired him.
I do not like his style of play. It is far from the style that I would have played. I said it before, I liked what winter was trying to do, but trying and doing are two different things.

Sadly, after signing. A three year extension, he wasn't going anywhere. A disastrous conclusion to this season could see him in a figurative pair of cement overshoes though.

[Davenport]

As long as we've got this group of players there will be no "style" of play.
They're not good enough to develop into any kind of style.
It's a simple game and some of them can't even do the basics.

[Pookie]

^ I take somewhat of an issue with that assessment. Though the common school of thought is that the players found Winter's system too complex, the reality is that they were successful with it through the end of 2011 and through the CCL. They had more passing accuracy, competed for more possession and fired more shots on goal.

The team was in need of a new coach. Granted. They weren't going to get a MLS Championship with the players that they had but they had some significant pieces. As of now, they have taken a step backwards. All around the idea of posting an improved record in the lead up to the season ticket renewal period. Gone are talented players and 1st round picks. What's left is a 4-5-5 record and games against Santos, Houston, SKC, the improved Union, NY, DC and Columbus (both in Columbus) all on the horizon. Only winnable game in there is Montreal and that may not be a sure thing.

It was an uphill battle for Mariner and sadly, the hill looks very big right now.

[asterix606]

Montreal is the first Canadian team in MLS history to have won 11 games!!They are a fun team to watch!

[Blizzard]

It was an uphill battle for Mariner and sadly, the hill looks very big right now.

He might have done better to say "no thanks .... Thomas, got a new job for you!"

[Oldtimer]

The reality is that eventually other teams would adjust to Mariner's tactics and that initial record that some extrapolated to a playoff spot would end up looking a lot worse just a few games later.

[gate7]

^^^ thanks guys,

just did some adding. based on http://www.mlssoccer.com/players/danny-koevermans

TFC record is as follows for 2012 not including CCL

4W 6L 4T (D.K. starting or subbed in)
1W 5L 1T (D.K not playing)

make that 1W 6L 1T after the last shit show....

[Richard]

I think TFC needs a moratorium on DP players, let new managment build within the cap and get a solid TEAM. We lack good depth and part of the issue is the large cap space taken up by DP players, this is a team sport and it really is showing how we rely on 1 player every year it would seem. Loosing DK would hurt many clubs in the same situation but when you have 2 other dp's it does not allow for good backups to be in place, the issue now is we need big name players as STH are dwindling.

[gate7]

good point. ^

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think TFC needs a moratorium on DP players, let new managment build within the cap and get a solid TEAM. We lack good depth and part of the issue is the large cap space taken up by DP players, this is a team sport and it really is showing how we rely on 1 player every year it would seem. Loosing DK would hurt many clubs in the same situation but when you have 2 other dp's it does not allow for good backups to be in place, the issue now is we need big name players as STH are dwindling.

Mo Johnston. This is what he lived by till we signed JDG. We got closest that year to the playoffs and our most consistent players have been our two DP's minus injury. There's enough room for plumbers around our DP's. It takes a managerial mind and some luck to find consistent non-DP players.

Having DP's isn't the problem. I think we have more to build with than ever but need MLS players that will shine and be more than supplemental quality.

[Beach_Red]

Mo Johnston. This is what he lived by till we signed JDG. We got closest that year to the playoffs and our most consistent players have been our two DP's minus injury. There's enough room for plumbers around our DP's. It takes a managerial mind and some luck to find consistent non-DP players.

Having DP's isn't the problem. I think we have more to build with than ever but need MLS players that will shine and be more than supplemental quality.

Try to imagine this team the last two season without Frings and Kouvermans (and even JDG in the CCL games). In fact, if Kouvermans hadn't gotten hurt we'd probably all be excited about how well the team was doing now.

Which, of course, is the biggest problem with this team. For all the talk about vision and style and formation what happened last season was the team paid a consultant and he signed a couple of DPs and the team did okay. Nothing was really addressed beyond that.

[Pookie]

Try to imagine this team the last two season without Frings and Kouvermans (and even JDG in the CCL games). In fact, if Kouvermans hadn't gotten hurt we'd probably all be excited about how well the team was doing now.

Which, of course, is the biggest problem with this team. For all the talk about vision and style and formation what happened last season was the team paid a consultant and he signed a couple of DPs and the team did okay. Nothing was really addressed beyond that.

^ I would agree. I would suggest that if you could compliment your DPs with solid players, you have a recipe for a great team.

The challenge though is that MLSE seeks the short term fix all the time. They think nothing of spending $2M on a player in the hopes of an immediate turnaround yet won't spend the same amount on scouting. The fact that these players tend to be older and more injury prone really puts all the eggs on one basket so to speak.

The concept of trading a 1st round (usually Generation Adidas) Superdraft pick for a DP is absurd.

[Richard]

I agree a DP is an important piece and without them we would be in a lot worse shape, idealy i think 1 dp is the optimum. TFC has always lacked solid mls players quite frankly im sick and tired of picking players that wouldnt be on the bench for other teams starting for us.

I too would like to see our scouting increased, i think with the nw owners we may see this as rogers has allowed the jays to have a great system for identifing players and devlopment.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I agree a DP is an important piece and without them we would be in a lot worse shape, idealy i think 1 dp is the optimum. TFC has always lacked solid mls players quite frankly im sick and tired of picking players that wouldnt be on the bench for other teams starting for us.

I too would like to see our scouting increased, i think with the nw owners we may see this as rogers has allowed the jays to have a great system for identifing players and devlopment.

I agree with you on our poor scouting needing to improve but it needs to be said that we've found players that were starter material and had to leave because of poor trades or have acquired players within the league that didn't play well for us or didn't want to.

Cunningham
Ruiz

Just the first two that come to mind I'm sure we could list more.