POSSESSION vs DIRECT/COUNTER ATTACKING/PARK THE BUS STYLE

[Richard]

T-boy please dont double or tripple post, use the multi quote feature.

On Topic: Lets hope TFC doesnt turn into the Leafs where every home town player aviods them like the plague. This whole situation is complete bullshit, Mariner told MLSE to abandon the longterm plan taking the acedemy with them. Why the fuck cant MLSE step up and get an actual coach who has experiance in the first place, atleast continue the long term plan of developing a style of possesion and higher skill. I cant really express all the shit thats wrong with this organization, im just going to leave it at this.

[denime]

I'm just a true believer that young footballers can learn almost anything, and formation, and any tactic. At youth age, players suck in everything, and take it all in their stride.

I'd like to believe denime when he says that the academy is doomed - but realistically it isn't. Ok, "some" parents might have loved the Winter model and wondered what has happened with the first team, and how it might affect their kid. But other's won't care at all, and are just happy to see their Little Billy play for the academy and have a shot at the first team for TFC and then onto playing for Canada. Some parents might want to move their kid to Vancouver and play there, but for others that is never feasable, and playing for TFC Academy is the biggest local club around.

The reality is that the TFC Acaddemy will remain one of th eprimary stepping stone youth systems in the local area (Ontario and surrounding area) and the first team syste, or whoever the manager is, won't change that.

Look at the interview with Jason Bent today on TFCTV. It speaks volumes how how important the Academy set up is to the club and to Canadian soccer. That just isn't going to change, even if some of denime's forecasts are semi-true.

I don't remember saying TFCA is doomed,but to think that TFCA is answer for kids in GTA is weak.TFCA academy is years behind Vancouver,Montreal has better program than TFC and farm youth clubs across the province.

TFCA was never primary stepping stone for youth systems in GTA and it will take some years before they become one,and I really hope it will become one sooner than later.Jason Bent on TFCTV said what he was told to,it is PR for TFCA and I would not be surprised if it's because of some unhappy parents and players,Bent should stick with 1st team and let T.Rongen talk academy.

I know 5 boys from Sigma academy that declined TFC 6 months ago when they were approached(poached)bu TFCA,one of them is U17 NT player who played at WC U17 last year,one of them is waiting to be 16 to move to RCD Mallorca,check youth NT rosters and you will see how many are from GTA or TFCA.

T.Rongen said it himself,it will take 5 years before we see first results from TFCa,5 years means boys who are now in U13 team,all other older teams are there to fill up MLS quota,and if they find some good talented player who was already developed by some good REP club or SAAC academy even better,they will claim how they developed them,like O.Cordon,Stinson,Morgan,Henry,all those boys were already developed when they came to TFCA all TFCA did was tweak them up here and there,but all of them had already intermediate skills and game understanding.

Next year U17-Junior academy will play in OSL U21 league and they will compete against some SAAC academies who are same age,it will be interesting to see how good they will be after 1 year with TFCA.

[v00d00daddy]

but TFC AND the MLS are both in their infancy. They are still overcoming rule and salary cap problems even now (the Koev's injury proves that, there are massive holes in the rules of the league!).

While all of that may be true...none of it has anything to do with determining style of play. Several teams in the league are playing a possession based game and finding success. Why can't we?

I never expected TFC to win the MLS Cup in the first few seasons, and I don't have that expectation even now. I guess I don't have ANY sense of entitlement with TFC - they are my local team, and I don't care if they win or lose - they represent my home City that I love. Therefore I love TFC. If they win or lose, or no matter what style they play, I will follow them forever. I'll likely have my season ticket until I die!

the 5 years of failure are irrelevant to me! Call me insane if you want to - but I'm TFC till I die!

And there it is. The old "i guess I'm just a better supporter that you" argument.

Its offensive.

If you're such a good supporter and don't care if they win or lose why not sit there and shut your mouth when they start 0-9? You know? Cause you're full of it.

When you stoop to beating on your chest about "TFC til I die" shit and "I love TFC" all the while implying that I don't care about this team you officially enter into the realm of zero credibility.

Every opinion you offer on the subject of TFC from this day forward will be utterly pointless in my eyes. Because you'd rather belittle a fellow supporter than actually try and argue your point.

Sad.

[Ajax TFC]

I'm not an insider and I can not name you the kids,boys,players, if you except that than keep waiting it will never happen.

I don't go there and ask whats new,and try to dig out some dirt,I stay with parent chat,listen what they have to say,listen to boys after game/practice,during BBQ and so on.I'm just writing how some players and parents feel about TFCA since Mariner took over,than I was told that few academy guys that Winter signed will be waived at the end of season

But I can tell you that one of players who actually played against Liverpool was told by Mariner to look for another club,once this season is finished they will release him.

well so much for "Winter's people" being in control of the academy. I wonder how long it will be before de Klerk's contract randomly expires and Rongen "has decided to seek new opportunities elsewhere"

[TFC07]

So depressing to read this thread and how Marnier (if things being mention in this thread are true) is destroying what TFC and its fans (or at least the ones who care about GTA/Ontario and Canadian soccer) is trying to build and support.

I don't give a shit about short term gains and making it to playoffs this year, restoring back to backwards soccer isn't the way to go. This is will turn off and kill any support from GTA/Ontario soccer community that TFC needs to build their club and get the players they want to play for them.

[Huyton]

I'm going to try to wade in here, and if anything I say causes offence, I'm sorry...really.

I've read a lot in this forum, and seen some great posts, and a number of good arguments for and against each side. I've been impressed by ManUtdForever's posts and by a lot of what Denime and Pookie have written. Passionate supporters, all.

I have learned a lot from each of you. Some, with whom I initially disagreed, have caused me to think about the future of our TFC. In many ways, I hope Denime, Pookie and the rest are wrong. I like to think the best of everyone, and I still think that the background machinations that Mariner is accused of strikes me as more in line with some of the conspiracy theories I normally have very little time for.

I hope that Denime is wrong about the Academy, but he knows a lot more about it than I do. I'm hoping that he is cherry-picking the data that will tend to bolster his argument, but I must admit that's all it is: a hope. Ultimately, though, the Academy serves to provide the senior team with players. As for what the Academy players get out of it, they get seen by NCAA scouts, and although a number of them will not be back, there is a not unreasonable chance that they've decided that the US College route might be a better choice for them.


As for the "TFC Til I die" comment, I must admit that I used that myself in a post earlier. IIn my case, it was not intended to say that "I'm a better supporter than you", and I hope it did not come across that way. My apologies if it did. Rather, it was to counter a number of people who said that if TFC moves to "hoofball" then they're not interested. What I meant was that I'll be around for the long haul. I'll take the bad times, the false starts, the misplaced hope and I'll get the occasional crumb like the game against Vancouver. Am I happy with that? No...I'd rather be a world dominating power, but that takes time. Will it happen with the current group in charge? The odds are against it but stranger things have happened. Has TFC taken a wrong move? Maybe, but in the meantime, oh Lord did TFC 3 Vancouver 2 ever feel good.


Anyway...thanks for the education, and I hope I'll continue to enjoy what is being written here. So far it's been one of the most thought provoking threads I've been involved in.

[tfcocd]

I'm going to try to wade in here, and if anything I say causes offence, I'm sorry...really.

I've read a lot in this forum, and seen some great posts, and a number of good arguments for and against each side. I've been impressed by ManUtdForever's posts and by a lot of what Denime and Pookie have written. Passionate supporters, all.

I have learned a lot from each of you. Some, with whom I initially disagreed, have caused me to think about the future of our TFC. In many ways, I hope Denime, Pookie and the rest are wrong. I like to think the best of everyone, and I still think that the background machinations that Mariner is accused of strikes me as more in line with some of the conspiracy theories I normally have very little time for.

I hope that Denime is wrong about the Academy, but he knows a lot more about it than I do. I'm hoping that he is cherry-picking the data that will tend to bolster his argument, but I must admit that's all it is: a hope. Ultimately, though, the Academy serves to provide the senior team with players. As for what the Academy players get out of it, they get seen by NCAA scouts, and although a number of them will not be back, there is a not unreasonable chance that they've decided that the US College route might be a better choice for them.

Anyway...thanks for the education, and I hope I'll continue to enjoy what is being written here. So far it's been one of the most thought provoking threads I've been involved in.

This has been a thoroughly enjoyable thread to read and follow. A lot of passionate debate which for me makes following the team that much more interesting. I always enjoy following team managers and find it fascinating to see how their approach ultimately leads to success and/or failure. It will be very interesting to see how the Liverpool possession project progresses with Rodgers given TFCs recent history.

For me the academy so far is looking promising after watching the friendly. There looks to be potential for one or two first team players to once again graduate and have a chance to play with the first team and more than likely another handful that will fit in as depth players. I see these players ultimately driving up the quality of the team as the Cordon and Stinson type players must improve or move on under pressure from the new challengers. I wonder if the disillusionment with the academy system is in the face of the harsh reality that only a small percentage will achieve the ultimate success of graduation and signing a professional contract. It will be interesting to see how the academy rates in comparison to other development opportunities in the GTA in terms of NCAA and lower division opportunities for those players that are ultimately unable to contribute to the first team.

[BayernTFC]

It's obvious the rest of the league is heading towards more technical stlyle of soccer ,while we are heading to '80 style of soccer.

These quotes are from a comment at the bottom of an article on Waking the Red:

It is the better way to get known by coaches but as this team changes tactics and subsequently the players that it is seeking, it can be extremely confusing for a kid and their parents to know which route to take.

But as the US Soccer Federation and much of the world moves to a possession based attacking system while TFC falls back to a “Forward First” system (win the ball and look for a forward first), that is what the kids will be learning.

Current estimates are that 10 of 16 US based MLS clubs are using the Total Football model. Combine that with the type of player they are looking at AND the restrictive roster rules on Canadian players earning jobs in the US, and you can see why a growing number of TFC-A parents are concerned with the direction.

To use a job analogy, they are coming into a market with a competitive disadvantage given rosters rules and are learning to play the game and think in a way that won’t be in demand.

Many who committed this year, did so under the idea that they would be developing under Total Football. A much more popular and sought after skill. Now that it has changed, I’m even less convinced that TFC-Academy is an automatic advantage in one’s development path.

The article was about TFC Academy and MLSE's motivation for creating it. If you haven't seen it already, you might find it a worthwhile read:

http://www.wakingthered.com/2012/7/2...c-academy-mlse

[denime]

^ "where there's smoke, there's fire "

[T-boy]

T-boy please dont double or tripple post, use the multi quote feature.

Sorry, I don't know how to do this, and didn't know it was possible?

[T-boy]

While all of that may be true...none of it has anything to do with determining style of play. Several teams in the league are playing a possession based game and finding success. Why can't we?



And there it is. The old "i guess I'm just a better supporter that you" argument.

Its offensive.

If you're such a good supporter and don't care if they win or lose why not sit there and shut your mouth when they start 0-9? You know? Cause you're full of it.

When you stoop to beating on your chest about "TFC til I die" shit and "I love TFC" all the while implying that I don't care about this team you officially enter into the realm of zero credibility.

Every opinion you offer on the subject of TFC from this day forward will be utterly pointless in my eyes. Because you'd rather belittle a fellow supporter than actually try and argue your point.

Sad.

Sorry but you are reading what you are reading, but I'm not writing what you think I am! You can read whatever you like into what I'm posting, but in reality I'm just bigging up support on this forum and from TFC fans. Everybody loves to argue about the SAME TEAM that we ALL support. But in the end of the day, we ALL SUPPORT THE SAME TEAM. I'm not saying I'm a better supporter than anybody, that's just rediculous to suggest!

But somebody on this forum sometimes needs to say "I'm TFC til I die and nothing will ever stop me". The rhetoric from some of you is so doom and glood and depressing sometimes!

And you have NO idea who I am - so don't judge me. If you want to judge me by trying to drum up support on a forum, then for sure do so. I will also sit silently in the middle of 113 and not chant or clap. If you want your fellow supporters to be silent and not care about the team, then BMO is going to be silent from now on as you are going to drive the enthusiasm out of the stadium and into another sport. Is that what you really want? If no, then don't dampen MY enthusiasm just because yours has broken.

TFC TILL I DIE.

[trane]

" guess I don't have ANY sense of entitlement with TFC - they are my local team, and I don't care if they win or lose - they represent my home City that I love"

Does this realy make sense???? I love TFC and I do not care if they win or lose???? You love a club and yet you do not care if it does well??? I am sorry you just love the idea of being a supporter.

[T-boy]

" guess I don't have ANY sense of entitlement with TFC - they are my local team, and I don't care if they win or lose - they represent my home City that I love"

Does this realy make sense???? I love TFC and I do not care if they win or lose???? You love a club and yet you do not care if it does well??? I am sorry you just love the idea of being a supporter.

You are reading it the wrong way. Before I moved to Toronto I was an Oxford United fan. I didn't "choose" to be an Oxford fan. I was born and raised in Oxford, my grandfather helped build their first stadium, and my father played for them. I was taken to my first Oxford game when I was 5 years old. I couldn't even imagine supporting another English club. Canadian's ask me all the time "who do you support in England?" and I reply "Oxford". They then say "no, I mean which Premiership team fo you supporter?". And I reply "none, I support Oxford!". Oxford is part of my blood, and I won't even support another English team. If Oxford United went bust, I just would never support another English team in my life.

When I moved to Toronto ten years ago, there wasn't a football team here. Then TFC were "created", and I took it upon myself to support my NEW local team. I have a sense of pride and place in Toronto the city, and a major part of my life is in Toronto, as well as it was in Oxford.

I obviously CARE if TFC win or lose, as much as I care if Oxford win or lose. But what I mean is - even if TFC lose every game, that won't stop be supporting them. TFC are part of my life, as much as Oxford will ever be. I'll never support another English club, and I'll equally now, never support another North American club.

I don't "love the idea of being a supporter", I "love being a supporter for a team that I DEEPLY care for in a city I DEEPLY care for and is part of my life". If TFC didn't exist, I would still sit and ONLY listen to Oxford United play on the radio on a Saturday morning!

Being a supporter for your team is like marriage - "for better or worse" etc etc. That being said - if TFC played OUFC, I would support OUFC, as they are "my" club, where my grandfather and father worked and helped build. They are part of my blood and heritage. TFC are part of my "new life" in North America.

[v00d00daddy]

Sorry but you are reading what you are reading, but I'm not writing what you think I am! You can read whatever you like into what I'm posting, but in reality I'm just bigging up support on this forum and from TFC fans. Everybody loves to argue about the SAME TEAM that we ALL support. But in the end of the day, we ALL SUPPORT THE SAME TEAM. I'm not saying I'm a better supporter than anybody, that's just rediculous to suggest!

But somebody on this forum sometimes needs to say "I'm TFC til I die and nothing will ever stop me". The rhetoric from some of you is so doom and glood and depressing sometimes!

And you have NO idea who I am - so don't judge me. If you want to judge me by trying to drum up support on a forum, then for sure do so. I will also sit silently in the middle of 113 and not chant or clap. If you want your fellow supporters to be silent and not care about the team, then BMO is going to be silent from now on as you are going to drive the enthusiasm out of the stadium and into another sport. Is that what you really want? If no, then don't dampen MY enthusiasm just because yours has broken.

TFC TILL I DIE.

You're flat out lying about what you "meant".

They were veiled jabs...poorly veiled at that.

I know this because you went off an a diatribe about something that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

What does TFC til I die have to do with the style of play discussion we're having?

And I'm sorry...but if you think a relationship with a football club is through thick and thin...no matter what...then I disagree.

And it that's the general sentiment from supporters where you were raised it's no wonder England have had so little success in the last 50 years.

The club should be held accountable at all times. When the club knows you'll take anything they offer they will take advantage of you in a heartbeat.

So you see...there are several ways of interpreting what a supporter is.

But this has nothin to do with the thread.

Let's get back on topic where you support everything Mariner does when it comes to style of play.

Despite the facts:

-they've totally undone and scrapped the plan put in less than 2 years ago

-they play ugly football (in many peoples eyes)

-he flat out lied about "tweaking" a few things

-it's permeated down to the academy who's participants and parents have also been lied to.


But it's okay...we're getting some wins that mean very little and lots of people will renew their tickets.

[T-boy]

Voodoo, if every thread was closed when it went off the original topic, then EVERY thread would be closed on this forum! There wouldn't be a forum! It's very difficult to keep a thread on topic when people are giving opinions.

You own personal rhetoric is very depressing. Your own veiled statements make it sound like you will "throw in the towel" if you don't get your own personal version of TFC and a "non ugly" style of play.

I was merely stating that myself, and other fans that I know of, don't really care so much about keeping Winter's style of play or making TFC a "possession only" club. I personally like Mariner style so far! I see it as far more appealing to the eye than Winter's! However, I supported TFC when Winter was coach, and I would support them if Preki was still coach (even though the football would be totally horrible to watch!).

I'm not "lying" or trying to thinly veil anything at all! I'm just giving a totally opposite opinion to yours! You personally prefer a more asthetic style of football, but your RHETORIC is that you will not support the team unless you get that. I'm conversely saying that the style of play is less relevant to me, or I prefer a more direct style of play, and that I will still renew my season ticket irresepctive of style of play.

The point of the topic is to discuss the different styles of play. But we all have opinions about it! It's all down to how we have grown up with the game also. Some people have an Italian background, some people English, some people South American. Soccer "styles" in each country is very different, and therefore the game is very different in all countries too. Discussing a "prefered style of play" is like discussing "which woman is hottest" or "which music is best" - we ALL have a different opinion about that as we are all from a different background!

There are people like you, and there are people like me. And that's fine!

[sulfur]

Sorry, I don't know how to do this, and didn't know it was possible?

See that little button to the right of "reply with quote"? That's multi-reply. You select the messages to reply to (they'll get a checkmark), then hit "reply with quote" on one of those messages, and... voila!

[T-boy]

Sorry, I don't know how to do this, and didn't know it was possible?

Just...

See that little button to the right of "reply with quote"? That's multi-reply. You select the messages to reply to (they'll get a checkmark), then hit "reply with quote" on one of those messages, and... voila!

...practicing!

Thanks sulfur!

[T-boy]

Winter tried to implement RECEIVE-PASS-MOVE system,where players movement off the ball would create extra space,and coming into that empty space,this wasn't Spanish tika,taka where ball is circulating and passed around rather than positional interchange of players.

"Winters" system requires players to be comfortable in multiple positions and physical fitness must be top notch,this is where Winter failed ,while he was trying to teach lumberjacks (that Mariner ,Cockrane signed) how to receive-pass and move,their physical conditioning needed for high pressure game was nowhere to be found and we would get scored against at the end of the games.


Mariner does not play Preki's anti football with 10 players behind the ball grinding results ,he encouraging his players to play loooong pass "'when under pressure"(recorded on TFC TV players interviews),not realizing with every boot pressure is rising because opponent has the ball again.
While Mariners system looks more like counter attacking,it is not,in counter attacking football our team should try to overtake the opposition by quick and intelligent movement and fast passes,something that we definitely don't do so often to call it counter attacking football.

We are now stuck between counter attacking/direct football,that most of the time looks like park the bus ,and boot it without the intention to pass it to the feet of the receiving player.

to get this back on topic. Some questions for all:

1. Do you think the current style of TFC is a result of Mariner's overall preference, or due to the limited time he's had to transition the team? Do we think that Mariner prefer's a more possessive style than he's had limited time to coach, or do we think that the style so far under Mariner is indicative of his long term vision/style?
2. The game played against Colorado was definitely more possession based, and was the first under Mariner that TFC have more than 50% of the ball. Does this indicate a change to a more possessive style under Mariner, or is it a one off as Colorado were extremely poor and therefore let TFC possess more of the ball? Do we think Mariner's team will continue like they did against Colorado, or revernt back to scoring early and then "parking the bus" with 2 lines of 4 accross the pitch?

I personlly hope that they will continue the trend set against Colorado, but its hard to say if that will happen. Any opinions? As TFC have had a week off this week, it will be interesting to see how they play this coming weekend - I think it will be very telling of the future for TFC under Mariner.

[Beach_Red]

to get this back on topic. Some questions for all:

1. Do you think the current style of TFC is a result of Mariner's overall preference, or due to the limited time he's had to transition the team? Do we think that Mariner prefer's a more possessive style than he's had limited time to coach, or do we think that the style so far under Mariner is indicative of his long term vision/style?
2. The game played against Colorado was definitely more possession based, and was the first under Mariner that TFC have more than 50% of the ball. Does this indicate a change to a more possessive style under Mariner, or is it a one off as Colorado were extremely poor and therefore let TFC possess more of the ball? Do we think Mariner's team will continue like they did against Colorado, or revernt back to scoring early and then "parking the bus" with 2 lines of 4 accross the pitch?

I personlly hope that they will continue the trend set against Colorado, but its hard to say if that will happen. Any opinions? As TFC have had a week off this week, it will be interesting to see how they play this coming weekend - I think it will be very telling of the future for TFC under Mariner.

I think everything we're seeing now is a reaction to starting the season 0-9. We can have all the discussions about style and long-term and whatever, but for a team that has had five straight losing seasons to start a season 0-9 (not even a single draw!) that has got to have a huge effect. We seem to skip over that here, or downplay it somehow, but no team can start a season 0-9 and expect to 'stay the course.'

So, I think, the only thing Mariner and anyone at TFC was thinking about was stopping the laughing from the rest of the league. What can we do to win a game right now? There wasn't really a long list of options, was there? Every sports team in every sport in the world, when it's in last place and getting beat by every other team in the league goes back to basics, simplifies it's game and starts over.

That's all that's happened here. We got beat. Bad. We seem to be in some denial about that.

[v00d00daddy]

I think everything we're seeing now is a reaction to starting the season 0-9. We can have all the discussions about style and long-term and whatever, but for a team that has had five straight losing seasons to start a season 0-9 (not even a single draw!) that has got to have a huge effect. We seem to skip over that here, or downplay it somehow, but no team can start a season 0-9 and expect to 'stay the course.'

So, I think, the only thing Mariner and anyone at TFC was thinking about was stopping the laughing from the rest of the league. What can we do to win a game right now? There wasn't really a long list of options, was there? Every sports team in every sport in the world, when it's in last place and getting beat by every other team in the league goes back to basics, simplifies it's game and starts over.

That's all that's happened here. We got beat. Bad. We seem to be in some denial about that.

Simplifying things is one thing.

Scrapping an entire philosophy is a bit more drastic than simplifying things to stop the bleeding.

It's a slap in the face to those who bought in to what the team was selling a year and a half ago.

Not to mention...during the horrid league start Tfc had a pretty successful CCL run.

While that it in no way absolves Winter and the team of that brutal start...it shouldn't be ignored either.

[Canary10]

To answer T-Boy's question, I think Mariner only knows one brand of football and that's all we'll ever get from him.

[mdc 77]

To answer T-Boy's question, I think Mariner only knows one brand of football and that's all we'll ever get from him.

Have to say I saw a totally different brand of football from TFC against Colorado last week, it certainly wasn't just knocking the ball up field then sitting back and hoping for the best. It was a solid passing game and strong movement forward.

[Canary10]

Have to say I saw a totally different brand of football from TFC against Colorado last week, it certainly wasn't just knocking the ball up field then sitting back and hoping for the best. It was a solid passing game and strong movement forward.

What did you see in the first half?

[spark]

Have to say I saw a totally different brand of football from TFC against Colorado last week, it certainly wasn't just knocking the ball up field then sitting back and hoping for the best. It was a solid passing game and strong movement forward.

No but that football did rear it's head at points. Let's also keep it in perspective - Colorado barely had a pulse that game or any fight in them. Credit to us that we took advantage of weak opposition (definitely something TFC often doesn't do!), but when we do that against Houston Saturday THEN I think it will mean something.

[mdc 77]

I'm not sitting here arguing style of play, seems thats all this board is for anymore. What I saw was solid well played football, start to finish from a club who has rarely done that in almost 6 years of games. That made me pleased as a supporter of TFC, winning also made me pleased and seeing how different, how motivated our players look now makes me optimistic about every match we play.

[Canary10]

I'm not sitting here arguing style of play, seems thats all this board is for anymore. What I saw was solid well played football, start to finish from a club who has rarely done that in almost 6 years of games. That made me pleased as a supporter of TFC, winning also made me pleased and seeing how different, how motivated our players look now makes me optimistic about every match we play.

Funny, where I was they got booed off the pitch at the end of the first half. I do agree the second was probably the best effort they've had under Mariner though.

[ag futbol]

Funny, where I was they got booed off the pitch at the end of the first half. I do agree the second was probably the best effort they've had under Mariner though.

Pretty much what I saw as well. First half was cringe worthy, second half was well played.

[T-boy]

Funny, where I was they got booed off the pitch at the end of the first half. I do agree the second was probably the best effort they've had under Mariner though.

There was one point in the first half where Eckersley brought the ball out to about a 3rd up the pitch, didn't have anywhere to go...nobody moving off the ball, and so he launched a horrible ball down the centre of the field straight to the Colorado goally. Remember that? If you watched Mariner...he was absolutely incensed! To me, that was a coach who didn't want that ball from the back, and didn't want Ecks to give up possession so lamely.

Things were clearly said in the dressing room at the half, and the team came out looking extremely different in the second half - passing the ball, keeping possession, and going from side to side in defense and midfield instead of launching balls to nobody. They kept the ball very well. It would be interesting to see what was said in the dressing room at half time, as it clearly worked. And given that Mariner looked like he was going to kill half the team when Ecks launched a hopeless ball at half time, I'd bet that keeping possession was lots to do with Mariner's hairdryer half-time talk!

[Whoop]

I just read a blog post on 86 Forever suggest Vancouver is having the same issues with keeping academy players.

[narduch]

I just read a blog post on 86 Forever suggest Vancouver is having the same issues with keeping academy players.

It makes sense.

I think the difference is Vancouver doesn't market its Academy like TFC does.