PRE/IN/POST GAME TFC @ FC Dallas Wed. July 4th @ 9:00pm-TSN

[T-boy]

So my follow up question to you would be: what do you think of teams that dive and roll around on the ground the entire time?

Well obviously I don't like those teams at ALL! But I'm talking about tactically taking ONE key player out of a game. I think that's fine. But you are talking an extreme where players are rolling around and feigning injury etc. I don't condone that. I condone tracking the best player around the pitch and if you need to give him a big of a hard tackle to remind him that you are there, then do so. I'm not talking doing extreme things. But taking one player out of the equation should always be an option for a football game. Kicking lumps out of an opponent, or feigning injury, or wasting as much time as you can, is not part of the game I like.

[v00d00daddy]

Dunfield took Henry out of the game, and it worked!

I remember watching Oxford United play Tottenham in the FA Cup when Gazza was playing for Spurs. Oxford (who were in League 1 at the time!) beat Spurs at White Hart Lane that day! Oxford had Martin Gray playing. Gray was a terrible footballer and nobody liked the guy in the stands before that day. But he man marked Gazza out the game. Gave him a massive tackle in the first half and Gazza was awful for the rest of the game. Martin Gray won the game for Oxford and everybody was singing his praises. Not because it was pretty, but because he took the "best player in the world" at the time out of the game!

Sometimes you have to be tough in football, and sometimes its very effective.

Not all football is "pretty and slick and beautiful". Sometimes you have to be hard. It's a physical sport after all. I never liked the way Wimbledon played in the 80's. but man were they good at what they did! I never saw many Don's fans complaining about their dirty antics when they were 3rd in the premiership (then division 1)!

Not that it has anything to do with the topic but....

In what world, and at what time, was Paul Gascoigne ever considered anywhere close to the best player in the world? LOL

I've never even heard someone try to make that argument. Lol

Im a for hard tackles but the idea of taking a guy out deliberately with a hard tackle is chicken shit of the highest order.

If you can't play with a guy or a team you tip your hat to him or his team and get better so that next time you can.

[joeyjones]

Thought you didn't put any stock in numbers other than the scoreline?

that is not what i said...i indicated that you were leaving out an important stat in your comparison of AW vs PM

[joeyjones]

They were up but we were still out possessed by Dallas. So what's there to mention?

that our possession numbers were better last night in comparison to the first 5 games under PM...and FTR, all winning teams this week were out possessed...

[T-boy]

Not that it has anything to do with the topic but....

In what world, and at what time, was Paul Gascoigne ever considered anywhere close to the best player in the world? LOL

I've never even heard someone try to make that argument. Lol

Im a for hard tackles but the idea of taking a guy out deliberately with a hard tackle is chicken shit of the highest order.

If you can't play with a guy or a team you tip your hat to him or his team and get better so that next time you can.

See "best player in the world" in quotation marks? Try telling many English that Gazza wasn't best player in the world...you would get a very different view! I don't agree with them, but there are many English fans who would say that he was best in the world, for sure!

And secondly - welcome to the world of sport! Every sport has underhand tactics and hard tackles and devious ways to win. Its nothing new! I'm sure nearly every professional soccer manager has told a player to "take him out the game" to a player at some point or another! That's not just something that happens in hockey...it happens in all sports. When you are playing against a fantastic footballer like Henry, you try every tactic to try and blunt him.

[KRO]

... agree, I can only prey that the knocks on the head he took, will make him a better player

Despite his limited ability I think Dunfield is a key player on this team at the moment. He reads the game well and never stops running.
If you watch the build up to our goal last night he clearly anticipates the poor initial clearance from Dallas and quickly delivers the ball back into a dangerous area. He deserves as much of an assist as Avila.

[ag futbol]

Well obviously I don't like those teams at ALL! But I'm talking about tactically taking ONE key player out of a game. I think that's fine. But you are talking an extreme where players are rolling around and feigning injury etc. I don't condone that. I condone tracking the best player around the pitch and if you need to give him a big of a hard tackle to remind him that you are there, then do so. I'm not talking doing extreme things. But taking one player out of the equation should always be an option for a football game. Kicking lumps out of an opponent, or feigning injury, or wasting as much time as you can, is not part of the game I like.

Well unfortunately, nobody's career has ended as a result of diving, but plenty have ended up out of the game due to an intent to injure. I have nothing against a hard tackle and pushing the physical side of the game, but what you're calling strategy here is disgraceful.

I also think when you boil down to it, it's no way to win. I think you're story is a classic example of that, one lowly team beating a better team on ONE day with some rough play. Is that what we want to model our club after? The bumbling lower league team that has the odds stacked against them. If we ran this team properly, we'd have among the most, if not the most resources in the league. We don't have to play like shitheads to win!

[Pookie]

that our possession numbers were better last night in comparison to the first 5 games under PM...and FTR, all winning teams this week were out possessed...

FTR we didn't win last night

[joeyjones]

FTR we didn't win last night

i didn't say that we won....i said that all the teams that DID win were out possessed...

[Pookie]

i didn't say that we won....i said that all the teams that DID win were out possessed...

That's nice. Not all the teams that were out possessed won. see Toronto FC

[joeyjones]

That's nice. Not all the teams that were out possessed won. see Toronto FC

but all the teams that won were out possessed

[Pookie]

^ of which we were not one, except for the out possessed front, that happened

Gotta go to soccer now joey, we can pick this up later

[joeyjones]

That's nice. Not all the teams that were out possessed won. see Toronto FC

or....this week, all the teams that were out possessed either won or tied their games....and, all the teams that out possessed their opponents either lost or tied their games...

are any stats a definitive factor in determining a successful team (points/standings)? i think you can spin the numbers anyway you would like to make a point..

[TFC07]

Meh. Okay result, but we need to start winning games (put together a win streak) starting on Sunday.

I am not liking Eck playing as a CB. Move him back to RB and get a proper CB. Hall shouldn't be starting.

Hoofball is painful to watch, but if we start winning by playing Hoofball then I wouldn't mind it. We need to hold onto ball more and make other team work for it instead of making it easy for them to get ball back and pressure us more often in our half than they should be.

[jloome]

They were up but we were still out possessed by Dallas. So what's there to mention?

How much of it was in Dallas' end or Toronto's.

Possession can be a very misleading stat if it isn't accompanied by anything productive.

[v00d00daddy]

How much of it was in Dallas' end or Toronto's.

Possession can be a very misleading stat if it isn't accompanied by anything productive.

True enough. The disparity in the number of corners won is probably a decent indicator or where the ball was too. I don't really know where to find more in depth stats on things like possession.

I've actually liked the way Tfc have stayed organised in the second half of the last two games.

The only issue is that they played as if they were up a goal rather than tied.

It worries me. Would have liked to see them try to take the game to Dallas a little more but it is what it is.

[ManUtd4ever]

True enough. The disparity in the number of corners won is probably a decent indicator or where the ball was too. I don't really know where to find more in depth stats on things like possession.

I've actually liked the way Tfc have stayed organised in the second half of the last two games.

The only issue is that they played as if they were up a goal rather than tied.

It worries me. Would have liked to see them try to take the game to Dallas a little more but it is what it is.

Actually, from my vantage point, I thought TFC pressed for the go ahead goal in the final 20 minutes and controlled possession as the clock wound down. It was nice to see that they weren't content to play for the draw on the road.

[tfcocd]

Hoofball is painful to watch, but if we start winning by playing Hoofball then I wouldn't mind it. We need to hold onto ball more and make other team work for it instead of making it easy for them to get ball back and pressure us more often in our half than they should be.

Mixing up our play would be much better. It seems like the first 10 games, no matter the situation, we attempted to play the ball on the floor and pass through the midfield regardless of the defensive positioning of the opponents. Now we are chipping it over the midfield and and trying to hold up the ball or flick it on for an attacking play. This is having some success and my hope is that once we establish the more direct attacking play and force teams to defend we will then have the opportunity to mix in some more possession based play and get the full use of Frings and JDGs talents.

[Oldtimer]

Mixing up our play would be much better. It seems like the first 10 games, no matter the situation, we attempted to play the ball on the floor and pass through the midfield regardless of the defensive positioning of the opponents. Now we are chipping it over the midfield and and trying to hold up the ball or flick it on for an attacking play. This is having some success and my hope is that once we establish the more direct attacking play and force teams to defend we will then have the opportunity to mix in some more possession based play and get the full use of Frings and JDGs talents.

Would be nice.

I'm not holding my breath.

[ensco]

Playing games in daytime (in all MLS cities ex Pacific Northwest) in July and August is inhumane. Forecast for Philly is 102 tomorrow, in the 90s Sunday.

The football won't be, cannot be, any good.

I would sit Koevs and Frings.

[T-boy]

Well unfortunately, nobody's career has ended as a result of diving, but plenty have ended up out of the game due to an intent to injure. I have nothing against a hard tackle and pushing the physical side of the game, but what you're calling strategy here is disgraceful.

I also think when you boil down to it, it's no way to win. I think you're story is a classic example of that, one lowly team beating a better team on ONE day with some rough play. Is that what we want to model our club after? The bumbling lower league team that has the odds stacked against them. If we ran this team properly, we'd have among the most, if not the most resources in the league. We don't have to play like shitheads to win!

I think if people on this board think that these types of tactics don't happen in professional football on a match by match basis, then they are unrealistic! Coaches telling players to take a player out of the game happens all the time. Getting yellow cards "tactically" happens all the time all over the world. It's not shithead football, its the way of football. The De Jong's, Roy Keane's, Dennis Wise', Vinnie, Jones', to name but a handful, have made a career out of it. Do you think that some of the yellow cards thes players get are just cos they are slow in the tackle? Definitely not - these guys are good players and know how to tackle well. They "take one for the team" sometimes and get booked and make sure that they scare the living daylights out of the opponents playmaking midfielder.

[Canary10]

I think if people on this board think that these types of tactics don't happen in professional football on a match by match basis, then they are unrealistic! Coaches telling players to take a player out of the game happens all the time. Getting yellow cards "tactically" happens all the time all over the world. It's not shithead football, its the way of football. The De Jong's, Roy Keane's, Dennis Wise', Vinnie, Jones', to name but a handful, have made a career out of it. Do you think that some of the yellow cards thes players get are just cos they are slow in the tackle? Definitely not - these guys are good players and know how to tackle well. They "take one for the team" sometimes and get booked and make sure that they scare the living daylights out of the opponents playmaking midfielder.

A huge part of the game is getting under the skin of your opponents, and you do that however you can get away with it.

[T-boy]

A huge part of the game is getting under the skin of your opponents, and you do that however you can get away with it.

Materazzi certainly got under ZZ's skin and won them the world cup! It's all part of the game, whether we like it or not!

[tfcocd]

Materazzi certainly got under ZZ's skin and won them the world cup! It's all part of the game, whether we like it or not!

I would agree, physical play and intimidation is part of the game. Whether that comes from a 'mis-timed' challenge like Dunfields or in a 50-50 ball where the defender is sliding towards the ball and leaves the offensive player no choice but to bail out or get clattered. I think it is good defense to ensure that attackers feel pressured and hurried as soon as they attempt to win and retain possession in the final third.

[Canary10]

Materazzi certainly got under ZZ's skin and won them the world cup! It's all part of the game, whether we like it or not!

Hmm, seems we agree T-Boy. But Plata has still been pushed out of the team by a formation that leaves him out!!

As a player, I love getting at people. First thing I look for is the guys wearing flourescent boots, and make sure I nail them as hard as possible every 50/50 ball I can. And get at them about how they better score a lot wearing those boots... There's an art behind getting people off their game. Which is kind of the idea behind this.

[Carts]

Hmm, seems we agree T-Boy. But Plata has still been pushed out of the team by a formation that leaves him out!!

As a player, I love getting at people. First thing I look for is the guys wearing flourescent boots, and make sure I nail them as hard as possible every 50/50 ball I can. And get at them about how they better score a lot wearing those boots... There's an art behind getting people off their game. Which is kind of the idea behind this.

100% spot on...

[v00d00daddy]

Hmm, seems we agree T-Boy. But Plata has still been pushed out of the team by a formation that leaves him out!!

As a player, I love getting at people. First thing I look for is the guys wearing flourescent boots, and make sure I nail them as hard as possible every 50/50 ball I can. And get at them about how they better score a lot wearing those boots... There's an art behind getting people off their game. Which is kind of the idea behind this.

It goes both ways. The fluorescent boot guys also thrive on burning the defenders who can do nothing but "get stuck in".

Hard nosed players are most certainly needed. That's not the question.

The question is why do we heap so much praise on those guys who are a dime a dozen?

For example...

Tfc player A makes a poor choice in the midfield while under no pressure and gifts the ball to the opposition.

Then the Tfc player gets on his horse and chases the guy who he gave the ball to and slide tackles him and pushes the ball out of bounds.

Now...what do the supporters do?

Clap at the effort.

It drives me crazy every time. It's idiotic and shows how low our expectations are.

The player should be screamed at for makin the bad choice that started it all in the first place. And if he continues to do it he should be taken off and no longer played.

Instead we pat him on the back.

It's like watching a grown man spill a glass of beer on a brand new carpet and applauding him when he gets on his hands and knees to suck it out. Lol

[T-boy]

Hmm, seems we agree T-Boy. But Plata has still been pushed out of the team by a formation that leaves him out!!

As a player, I love getting at people. First thing I look for is the guys wearing flourescent boots, and make sure I nail them as hard as possible every 50/50 ball I can. And get at them about how they better score a lot wearing those boots... There's an art behind getting people off their game. Which is kind of the idea behind this.

haha, I'm glad I agree with somebody on here for a change! We should have a lunchtime pint

[Canary10]

It goes both ways. The fluorescent boot guys also thrive on burning the defenders who can do nothing but "get stuck in".

Hard nosed players are most certainly needed. That's not the question.

The question is why do we heap so much praise on those guys who are a dime a dozen?

Only if they're good. A lot of them aren't. If you wear those boots, you better be good.

[ag futbol]

It goes both ways. The fluorescent boot guys also thrive on burning the defenders who can do nothing but "get stuck in".

Hard nosed players are most certainly needed. That's not the question.

The question is why do we heap so much praise on those guys who are a dime a dozen?

I think that's probably more my point. And I certainly recognize the need for a few work horses, but as you've pointed out: they are hardly a rarity.

Also think an over-emphasis on this workman like effort will yield an empty trophy case. Have a few players who are willing to do the dirty work, but don't glorify the whole process and have a team full.