Improved atmosphere ?

[TOBOR !]

Red Rum :

Solutions...now you are speaking my language. How about requiring members to do something aside from paying a membership fee? Contributing vocally in the stands. Attending banner painting sessions. Contributing to banner sessions financially. Attending away matches. Not saying everyone can do all those by any means nor would I expect them to, but do what you can. Especially the first point, there is no no excuse for standing in 112 and at least not doing that. Tell me I am wrong. Support is dying, but it wont fix itself unless everyone who calls themselves a supporter looks in the mirror and says "what can I do?".

I may stand to be corrected, but I think a portion of the membership fee goes towards banner / TIFO materials. So RPB members are contributing in that manner.

If you're suggesting that Registered Users put forth financial assistance, then I agree... I think the easiest way to accomplish this is by becoming a paid RPB member.

[ryan]

aside from my previous post, can i ask something?

redrum, what do you want?

you've hijacked a thread, turned it into a volatile place and started spewing shit at a bunch of volunteers who're trying to maintain an inclusive supporter culture. what did you hope to accomplish with this? what did you hope to accomplish in the long run with a group you no longer associate with? are you trying to get banned so you can wear it as a badge of honour to impress your friends?

From an outsider just following the discussion (although I'm sure he can answer for himself)...

I get the impression he wants more to be expected out of this group's members. I don't get the idea that he's trying to have a "dick measuring competition in regards to supporting", more so to say if you're a supporter you should be doing more than what some/many are currently doing. For RPB to have every member a contributor outside of paying the fee and attending matches as I get the impression there's a chunk of RPB membership who are simply that? I don't know. As if to say "if this group has 250 members, why aren't there 250 unified voices in 112 every match?" "Why aren't there 250 sets of hands building Tifo's?" etc. Clearly doesn't seem to be what this group is expecting as per what I read from Phil and that makes him pretty upset. Seems like RPB now is (perhaps always was? I don't know really, just thinking aloud) just a group for all, you pay your fee and great! You're a member/supporter and that's all you need to do.

I can only see 2 reasons for the ranting and raving, one being he's just here to troll and piss in everyone's cornflakes...and one being because he's wishing RPB would be something more/something else, more towards "hardcore unified support" than "fun for everyone" perhaps? I would assume it's the latter of those two as he seems quite passionate about his message.


That's just how I see it as a total outsider. (but don't mind me, I have a fetish for interjecting myself into e-arguments that have nothing to do with me )

[__wowza]

I get the impression he wants more to be expected out of this group's members. I don't get the idea that he's trying to have a "dick measuring competition in regards to supporting", more so to say if you're a supporter you should be doing more than what some/many are currently doing.

i got the impression that he wanted to have a dick measuring competition when he questioned the length of my membership and asked me what i've contributed to the group. i took that as personal, and in context it came across as him asking me what gave me the right to talk to him about support.

For RPB to have every member a contributor outside of paying the fee and attending matches as I get the impression there's a chunk of RPB membership who are simply that? I don't know. As if to say "if this group has 250 members, why aren't there 250 unified voices in 112 every match?" "Why aren't there 250 sets of hands building Tifo's?" etc. Clearly doesn't seem to be what this group is expecting as per what I read from Phil and that makes him pretty upset. Seems like RPB now is (perhaps always was? I don't know really, just thinking aloud) just a group for all, you pay your fee and great! You're a member/supporter and that's all you need to do.

i can't speak for phil, or the membership team here, but people do what they can. like i said, i couldn't afford tickets, so i didn't go to matches. to me, that was alright because i helped, to some it would mean that wasn't a supporter because i wasn't in the stands. that's what makes this group different, they try and be inclusive by not trying to pin down anyone with "this is what a supporter is/does". we all have our own definition of support, but there's no high-bar, golden standard. from the supporters i've met around the league, this is a prevalent style of other SGs as well. i can't speak for phil, but if he seems upset by the lack of supporters living up to his expectations, i think it's common. you want people to work as hard as you do, you want them to care as much as you do, (i know i would) but what many of us aren't prepared to do is chastise others for failing to meet our standard. i've never once heard phil, or jack, or boris, say anything like "you people should be ashamed of yourselves, calling yourself a supporter! BAHH!"

the problem with the last part of your post is that when you have a standard, you have people that don't meet that standard. have seasons seats but no membership? you're not a RPB. contribute as much as you can but aren't a SSH? you're not a RPB. live outside of the city but still want to support the team? you're not a RPB. some people purchase memberships as a financial donation to the group knowing full well that they can't help out in person. to each their own. but to say that these people are or aren't part of the group doesn't sit well with me.

I can only see 2 reasons for the ranting and raving, one being he's just here to troll and piss in everyone's cornflakes...and one being because he's wishing RPB would be something more/something else, more towards "hardcore unified support" than "fun for everyone" perhaps? I would assume it's the latter of those two as he seems quite passionate about his message.

see, i think you hit the nail on the head here. at the end of the day, they both want the same thing, but i feel that redrum, along with a few others, are going about it the wrong way. you can't encourage a positive response by complaining that everyone is an abject failure. there's nothing saying you can't use that passion to harbor a communal effort instead of a fight.

[Phil]

From an outsider just following the discussion (although I'm sure he can answer for himself)...

I get the impression he wants more to be expected out of this group's members. I don't get the idea that he's trying to have a "dick measuring competition in regards to supporting", more so to say if you're a supporter you should be doing more than what some/many are currently doing. For RPB to have every member a contributor outside of paying the fee and attending matches as I get the impression there's a chunk of RPB membership who are simply that? I don't know. As if to say "if this group has 250 members, why aren't there 250 unified voices in 112 every match?" "Why aren't there 250 sets of hands building Tifo's?" etc. Clearly doesn't seem to be what this group is expecting as per what I read from Phil and that makes him pretty upset. Seems like RPB now is (perhaps always was? I don't know really, just thinking aloud) just a group for all, you pay your fee and great! You're a member/supporter and that's all you need to do.

I can only see 2 reasons for the ranting and raving, one being he's just here to troll and piss in everyone's cornflakes...and one being because he's wishing RPB would be something more/something else, more towards "hardcore unified support" than "fun for everyone" perhaps? I would assume it's the latter of those two as he seems quite passionate about his message.


That's just how I see it as a total outsider. (but don't mind me, I have a fetish for interjecting myself into e-arguments that have nothing to do with me )

Well, its takes a well oiled machine to make everything work for everyone, and we are constantly facing challenges as a volunteer organization. Some of the people that may get called out for not 'measuring up' in the stands are the ones putting in countless hours making the web site work, or upgrading and maintaining software. Or shouldering efforts to do other things that make the club function. That is the nature of the goup, its not 30 people all working at 1 thing, its 250 people making contributions with their money and or efforts along with being in the stands whenever possible. We are open, and welcome people to join and contribute however they can.

We had issues in the past with the banner team not providing information about events or projects to the membership. The membership money gets spent on banners - paint and materials, drums - repair and acquisition, storage and online fees.

The great thing is we recently had a member step forward on donate a fully working benq projector, so now banners become a little bit easier. By the standards being suggested, if he doens't sing or met the bar in the stands then maybe they should not be allowed to support?

Nevermind the continual issue of having 250 or 500 members in the group and not having control over our own section. As noted earlier (it got glossed over very well) CCL nights are amazing in the stands, mostly because the members and like minded supportes get acess to those tickets. Regular MLS games, other people hold those seats and take them. They are not our seats to assign, but again the like minded people share and accomodate.

So as we can all see, its not a straight forward solution that gets resolution by clicking fingers and saying - do this, not that. I have been upfront with the group in regards to the challenges and our plan to accomodate everyone we can, the commitment is to be an open group and put the focus on participation, engagement and transparency. I feel give the dire status of the team and its results, we are currently not fairing too badly but as pointed out it could be better too.

[C_R]

I like the mentality of this thread.

[ryan]

i got the impression that he wanted to have a dick measuring competition when he questioned the length of my membership and asked me what i've contributed to the group. i took that as personal, and in context it came across as him asking me what gave me the right to talk to him about support.

I can see why you'd get that but looking at the whole argument so far I think that's more of his frustration showing than the point he's trying to make, again just what I see.

i can't speak for phil, or the membership team here, but people do what they can. like i said, i couldn't afford tickets, so i didn't go to matches. to me, that was alright because i helped, to some it would mean that wasn't a supporter because i wasn't in the stands. that's what makes this group different, they try and be inclusive by not trying to pin down anyone with "this is what a supporter is/does". we all have our own definition of support, but there's no high-bar, golden standard. from the supporters i've met around the league, this is a prevalent style of other SGs as well. i can't speak for phil, but if he seems upset by the lack of supporters living up to his expectations, i think it's common. you want people to work as hard as you do, you want them to care as much as you do, (i know i would) but what many of us aren't prepared to do is chastise others for failing to meet our standard. i've never once heard phil, or jack, or boris, say anything like "you people should be ashamed of yourselves, calling yourself a supporter! BAHH!"

the problem with the last part of your post is that when you have a standard, you have people that don't meet that standard. have seasons seats but no membership? you're not a RPB. contribute as much as you can but aren't a SSH? you're not a RPB. live outside of the city but still want to support the team? you're not a RPB. some people purchase memberships as a financial donation to the group knowing full well that they can't help out in person. to each their own. but to say that these people are or aren't part of the group doesn't sit well with me.

I think the root of what it all boils down to isn't so much being forced to "do X, Y and Z" no matter what, but to actually "do X, Y and Z" when your in the position to do so. There's a lot of fire in his comments about members being at games, yet being idle. That's one point I find myself agreeing with entirely and find it frustrating to know of or see for myself. I personally would love to get regular seating down in the group, but it's not available to me some games because there's nowhere I can fit and good luck getting SSH there. When CCL rolls around I can do so, when CMNT play I'm there as well. I sing my heart out and do it for the players, the very basic purpose of support no? This is just my opinion, being a "supporter" can be defined however people want to define it, but I think at a very basic level you're at least making noise for the team when being within the group.

There has to be some base definition of "support" no? Going to the match and sipping beers while checking your phone for 90 minutes can't possibly count? In my view, if you're within the assigned SG section, you're either helping or hurting. Chanting/singing or being silent. I see it as if you're not joining in, then you're detrimental to those who are and what they are trying to accomplish (which I assume is a loud unified song from the south end, no?) Hard for people in Row 12 to participate if the next 4 rows in front of them aren't doing it.

Like lets just get away from the word "supporter" for a second. Is there simply not a difference between those who sit and watch/sip beer/tweet photos of the cute DJ at the socco match vs those who jump/dance/chant/sing? Isn't those who are within 112 supposed to act the latter? I dunno.

Then again I imagine it's a tough situation when bloody MLSE doesn't give you control over who is in 112. I've snuck down a bunch of times over the years, but my luck usually ends up finding a group of drunk douchy tourists return 15 mins late from half wearing v-necks and aviators (in the pitch black) asking me to gtfo out of their assigned seats. Then looking at me like I'm insane as I just mash into another spot where I'm welcome and keep singing with whoever is making noise. (not that I have anything against v-necks or aviators, just not quite the right attire for a TFC night match )


Perhaps at the Town Hall the not as great atmosphere topic can be used (since MLSE uses it to advertise the club) to help get control over seating in 112? Not likely I'm sure...but a talking point perhaps.

see, i think you hit the nail on the head here. at the end of the day, they both want the same thing, but i feel that redrum, along with a few others, are going about it the wrong way. you can't encourage a positive response by complaining that everyone is an abject failure. there's nothing saying you can't use that passion to harbor a communal effort instead of a fight.

I don't know of the whole situation to really comment on the methods of delivery of their concerns.

[ryan]

Well, its takes a well oiled machine to make everything work for everyone, and we are constantly facing challenges as a volunteer organization. Some of the people that may get called out for not 'measuring up' in the stands are the ones putting in countless hours making the web site work, or upgrading and maintaining software. Or shouldering efforts to do other things that make the club function. That is the nature of the goup, its not 30 people all working at 1 thing, its 250 people making contributions with their money and or efforts along with being in the stands whenever possible. We are open, and welcome people to join and contribute however they can.

We had issues in the past with the banner team not providing information about events or projects to the membership. The membership money gets spent on banners - paint and materials, drums - repair and acquisition, storage and online fees.

The great thing is we recently had a member step forward on donate a fully working benq projector, so now banners become a little bit easier. By the standards being suggested, if he doens't sing or met the bar in the stands then maybe they should not be allowed to support?

Nevermind the continual issue of having 250 or 500 members in the group and not having control over our own section. As noted earlier (it got glossed over very well) CCL nights are amazing in the stands, mostly because the members and like minded supportes get acess to those tickets. Regular MLS games, other people hold those seats and take them. They are not our seats to assign, but again the like minded people share and accomodate.

So as we can all see, its not a straight forward solution that gets resolution by clicking fingers and saying - do this, not that. I have been upfront with the group in regards to the challenges and our plan to accomodate everyone we can, the commitment is to be an open group and put the focus on participation, engagement and transparency. I feel give the dire status of the team and its results, we are currently not fairing too badly but as pointed out it could be better too.

Phil do you think there is any possibility that MLSE would re-instate the "SSH transfer" to supporter group sections? I know that used to exist right?

With the amount of regularly open seats seen in the west side of the south stand, I don't see the need for MLSE to have to re-distribute those to the only demand they have left on their waiting lists (which is for south end seating). They should have plenty to give away over there from the amount I see every week sitting up in the 200's. Or people like to just set tickets on fire, not truly sure.

[Phil]

Phil do you think there is any possibility that MLSE would re-instate the "SSH transfer" to supporter group sections? I know that used to exist right?

With the amount of regularly open seats seen in the west side of the south stand, I don't see the need for MLSE to have to re-distribute those to the only demand they have left on their waiting lists (which is for south end seating). They should have plenty to give away over there from the amount I see every week sitting up in the 200's. Or people like to just set tickets on fire, not truly sure.

Its something that I will approach. I do this every year with limited sucess. Maybe this year will be different. Cross your fingers, I know mine are.

[nfitz]

You are on multiple boards regularly. You know the score. You are stirring the pot and we both know it.

I am on multiple boards ... but I really don't have any idea what the deal with NEE is. I have not seen it discussed anywhere ... nor have I heard it mentioned at any event, other than someone making a similar comment to me ... that they look absent from 127. I confess to having stirred the pot once or twice in years past with NEE ... but I'm being completely up front here. I'm 100% out-of-the-loop here. If there's a discussion here or elsewhere on it, kindly point me to it, as I must have missed it.

[james]

I thought the atmosphere was good. Why must there be a constant negative vibe around this team and its supporters?

What the hell is it that you who complain about the atmosphere want?

its easy, Toronto FC games atmosphere few years back use to be a lot louder...there for we want that back. And if we can ever get that atmosphere back the next step is to improve that more to get the great atmosphere Seattle or Portland have. If we just settle for the atmosphere we have now we will never improve and get to where we want to be!!!

[james]

I just went to my first TFC game of this year as i was living else where up untill a week. The atmosphere to me was not that good, nothing to brag about anyways. Lower 112 on a few ocassions did not join in when people from upper 112/113 started trying to get songs going. Maybe lower 112 did not here them, but on a few occassions it was quiet in the stands and i don't know how they couldn't of herd. They seemed to ignore and wait for it to die out as they needed more people to join in to really last, or they would start there own song over the other fans. Needs improvements. Anyways thats what i saw, not sure about other people. That all said, i still drank my beer sang and had fun!

[Phil]

I just went to my first TFC game of this year as i was living else where up untill a week. The atmosphere to me was not that good, nothing to brag about anyways. Lower 112 on a few ocassions did not join in when people from upper 112/113 started trying to get songs going. Maybe lower 112 did not here them, but on a few occassions it was quiet in the stands and i don't know how they couldn't of herd. They seemed to ignore and wait for it to die out as they needed more people to join in to really last, or they would start there own song over the other fans. Needs improvements. Anyways thats what i saw, not sure about other people. That all said, i still drank my beer sang and had fun!

Welcome back!

Just some quick observations would be wether there was a capo or not, that can make a big difference. Its a role we need help with as not everyone is cut out for that job, it takes a unique skill set. If it was the game I am thinking it was, it was hot, we had drum issues (the drum sticks were confiscated and we had to get them out of check) so things suffer big time as a result.

Anyhow, we all know there is a ton to do to improve support in 112, it seems the team is getting better consistancy and that should help a lot IMO.

[Ageroo]

As this thread has been semi-hijacked and gone off its main course the original intent of the opening post has been lost to an extent.....the moderation team has decided to close this thread for the time being.