Agreed, that's what I wrote in the other thread as well. Three DP salaries just does not leave a MLS team much flexibility and if you're able to find that younger guy... he could be on your backline for a long time, which is invaluable to the club.
That being said, as long as Nesta is durable and the contract isn't too long, it'd probably be a great short-term move.
Those are just our failures, other teams have done much better in the same market.
Even a season or two, Nesta working with our youngsters could be very valuable in their development. I vote YEA. According to some reports, Galliani wanted to keep him for 12-13, so he must think Nesta's got a bit more in the tank still.
Even if the defense looked solid last night, it hasn't looked solid consistently for 2 years now. This is a positive move, we need some new blood on the back line.
Exactly. Baby and the bath water.
Caicedo and Aceval were terrible signings that we probably got through the league and didn't actually scout first hand.
I'd really, really love to know what happened there. I've got no sources at TFC and only go off what I read but here's a completely speculative theory: some people like to blame Mariner for every bad signing because, officially, he was supposed to be in charge of talent identification. They hear stories about him and Winter fighting over players and assume that he was blocking Winter from getting the players he wanted. Here's the thing: as far as I can tell TFC was Winter's team and Mariner was subordinate to him. There exact line was "Aron Winter will be in charge of the overall direction of the club" IIRC. There might have had to be some agreement to okay a big signing and I'm sure Mariner had input (judging by guys like Eckersley and Lambe being on the team) but, for me, the most likely case is that Winter had the final call and Mariner was primarily there to add advice, expertise, and contacts inside the league. Winter was the one who was the face of the organization and he was the one who got axed. It's just as likely that the fights were over Winter's decision to sign guys that Mariner didn't feel were suited to the league; not being there we can't know.
Again, this is speculation but Caicedo and Aceval feel like they have the hallmarks of why Winter was unsuited to managing in the league. All last year I read about how TFC needed a ball playing centre back who could pass out of the back and initiate the attack if Winter's system was going to be successful. That sort of player is not available in MLS; not for what we could offer anyways. Joke about Iro all you want but when you're trading in MLS that's the sort of player you're going to be offered. Houston isn't giving up Geoff Cameron for Tony Tchani; NY gave us Borman not Tim Ream for DeRo. Borchers and Olave aren't even great passers but Jason Kreis isn't going to break them apart in exchange for Nick LaBrocca (even after his All-Star nod!).
Winter came in last year with little time to prepare for the season and build the sort of roster he wanted; that's not his fault. He was probably told by the interim management team that the one stable bit of 2010's team had been the centre back pairing of Cann and Nana and that he should look to strengthen elsewhere first. Of course, no one thought we'd try to force such as suicidal a style as Winter tried to play in the first half of 2010 with passers like Cann and Nana - and let's not even get into Cann at LB in Vancouver - and that was before even dealing with Cann's contract (then injury) and Nana's drop in form and contract. Now, keep in mind that Winter blew all our discovery signings BEFORE the summer on guys like Martina, Bouchiba, Yourassowksy, and Soolsma. By some accounts the DPs were already lined up before their announcement. So getting a CB from outside the league was off the cards last summer.
Remember Winter's "now I start making trades" rant after the Houston game? Where was that in relation to Iro? Again, make fun of Iro all you want but even if that was the best Mariner could find that's what you get inside MLS! Maybe we could have got Julius James or an even older Tyrone Marshall back instead! Who knows who made the final decision on that deal? I'd love to have Tchani back to play with Frings instead of Dunfield*.
So, we go into the off season ahead of this year. Cann's still out, Dicoy's still out, Iro's been a disaster, and we got a reasonable return on Nana, but, regardless, none of them really fit the bill as a passing centre back anyways. Ty Harden might be getting started by default but there are some indications that Winter might rate him based on how consistently he picks him. But the big emphasis is on finding a ball playing centre back from outside the league. But we've got to do it on a budget because we've got 3 DPs on the roster and it's been decided that resigning Eckersley and Plata is important.
So Caicedo and Aceval were the best anyone could come up with. They very well may have been the best that were available who were out of contract, willing to come to MLS, fit inside our budget, and met the criteria of being decent passers who were comfortable with the ball at their feet. Once you start stating all the conditions that had to be met you start to see why we ended up with them.
Again, I'd love to know who made the final call on their signings. Winter wanted passing centre backs. He called Aceval "the final piece" of his team for 2012. He showed a tendency to underestimate the physical demands of the league (and the ability of technical ability to compensate), underestimate the quality necessary from foreign signings, and overestimate their ability to adapt to play in MLS. I can't help but think that, even if he didn't find them (<-and that's the key thing), Winter was the one who ultimately decided to sign both of them.
Where Mariner stood on that decision is a mystery and until I know definitively I'm not going to blame him. Mariner needs to be judged on the players he brings into the club this summer and the results that gets now that he's in control. Maybe he'll be just as bad but it only started being his team three weeks ago. Ultimately, anything before that is on Winter.
*Who Mariner really does seem to value. He keeps mentioning Terry in his post games and singles him out for his contributions. That will not make some people happy!
Last edited by BHTC Mike; 06-28-2012 at 12:06 PM.
For the record, ive been calling for a dp cb since yr 2
The problem I see here with many arguments is that people are looking back at his past accomplishments (which are quite extensive, of course) and overlooking the current situation. Remember, this guy has had his share of back problems over the years that continue to crop up and I doubt we'll see him perform here in a more physical league just like he did in Italy.
That said, I am willing to take a short term chance with him because the amount of experience he has to offer our backline could be invaluable. Let's see how a season works out with him. I think he could really anchor the D and maybe whip the others into shape, but let's be realistic about his age what that tends to entail.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
I'm not fussy with whatever DP CB we sign. It could have been Wayne Bridge for all I cared. We just need help.
If Nesta performs at a level that is even remotely close to his days with AC Milan, he will still represent a substantial upgrade on our current backline, and he will likely be the best CB in the history of the franchise.
My first reaction is it's a good signing if it happens. Our defense is young across the board. Having a steady hand with that level of experience can only help in the short term, and help the young guys develop in the long term.
On the other hand, there are a few obvious points to make. One, this clearly leaves JDG in no man's land. How will he react to that? He may (probably) does know already he's not renewing a DP contract for next year. Maybe being out of contract will be enough to get him to perform the rest of the year? Hard to know.
Other point is this saddles us with another large DP contract going forward. That space could have been pretty valuable next year. I tend to think we'd be better not going the DP route for a period of time and focusing on building our MLS talent for a bit.
At the end of the day though, the team needs a shot in the arm, and this looks on the face a fairly good idea.
he hasn't performed already, what's going to change?
if he lets the fact that we signed his replacement sour him, he'll be hard up finding a team that's willing to make him on next year. he's old, shite, and strapping the label on him that he tank the rest of his season with the team because they signed someone else will be a surefire recipe for playing in armenia.
The positives far outweigh the negatives... sign him.
Ugh...
Kurtis Larson@KurtLarSUN
Nesta to #TFC talk right now overblown. Will confirm through Mariner tomorrow at training.
Jumping the gun again?
Maybe Larson and Rollins are just having a pissing contest ala Nick Kypreos vs Darren Dreger at the NHL trade deadline, LOL...
If this actually goes through, it just shows that Larson is the guy who gets spoon fed stories from management and is basically being strung along.
Well, if its true, I expect spin to say its not. If its not true, I expect the same type of reports.
Only way to know is wait for a presser. LOL
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Hmm....Alessandro Nesta....Danny Califf. Alessandro Nesta....Danny Califf. My hands are doing a scale kind of thing, and they seem to weigh the former higher than the latter.
I have to say, and I know I'm being overly influenced by (i) the magisterial display Pirlo is putting on, and (ii) the egg on Berlusconi's face for letting him walk on a free .....
Nesta is special. In a league of his own, like Pirlo. If we can get him, omg. But.
He can still play in Serie A, maybe even for a good team, and therefore I don't think that Nesta is coming to MLS for anything less than a Serious Boatload of Money.
I know nothing. Just my opinion.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Update:
Alessandro Nesta was reported as being a guest of Toronto FC. He was not. He was invited as a guest of Montreal's. He sat in Saputo's guest box.
Paul Mariner being the highest member of management travelling to Montreal meant he would have been awful lonely as a guest of Toronto FC's.
Junior Burgos' release does not open enough cap room for Nesta.
He might have been there to support Di Vaio, though that's just me speculating.
This thread became lulz as soon as Larsen's was mentioned.