POST GAME-TFC 0-2 Sporting Kansas City

[lerxst]

I stand corrected. And your comments about the game are...

I think this "apathy" problem you speak of, is really just your own. Last time I checked TFC was the only pro club playing at the highest level of competition in both the US and Canada. So if you're looking to cheer for someone else in this region, you're fucked. Why would you want to though? Are they having a terrible regular season? Sure. Has this club had the most tumultuous 6 years in MLS history? Possibly. Should you bail when the shit hits the fan? Nah. That's not how support works. You pick your colours and you stick with them for life or you're nothing and loyalty means fuck all to you. Having said that, get mad. That's part of supporting as well. Just don't play that "apathy" card. I you do, I'm sure Hearts will appreciate your continued support.

[lerxst]

If you have nothing to contribute to post game discussion,don't post.

I did. It was a grammar lesson.

[denime]

Fair enough. Unfortunately, many have already judged Mariner after 90 minutes.

It has to be said that despite playing the first game for a new coach after a lengthy break and adapting to a new tactical approach, TFC created more quality scoring chances last night than they typically have under Winter in the past against a top MLS club in an intimidating environment.

If Avila, Koevermans, Silva, and Johnson had converted any of their point blank opportunities, the tone of this thread would be entirely different.

I can think on one game ,game vs RSL where we created more chances by playing soccer,most of the chances we created last night were hail marry in to penalty box and hope for the best.

You can not expect from us to give him some extra time,when 10 days ago he was talking about small tweaking here and there and now total overhaul of system.
TFC in May was 3-2-2,that showed me they turned the corner and finally start playing better,Winter got fired and now have to give a guy who back stabbed him,changed formation instead of tweaking it,playing ball hoofers instead of skill players extra time,I don't think so.

Mariner was/is part of 1-10 disaster in 2012 and if we do not have at least 50% improvement in next 14 MLS games,he should be shown door together with his sugar daddy Tommy.

[spe18]

Are you sure you watched TFC playing and not a replay form EURO12.

Possession, TFC and possession in tonight's game can not be in the same sentence.KC had 7fucking8% of possession in first 20 minutes of tonight's game.

Unlucky my ass,how many chances had KC in firts 15-20 minutes 3,4 just squeezed juts besides the posts,we were lucky that KC wasn't 4-0 in first 30 minutes today.

We are worst than we were 3 weeks ago,and it will not get any better this year and probably in near future.

TFC IS FUCKED AS LONG ANSELMI AND HIS PUPPETS ARE RUNNING THIS CLUB!!

ANSLEMI GTFO AND TAKE YOURS PUPPETS WITH YOU !

My only 2 questions would be:

a) When does the ownership take effect at MLSE?

b) When the new ownership takes over at MLSE, are there any plans to replace who runs Toronto FC?

[Pinkie]

what a terrible game by a terrible team. but then again with KC being in pretty awesome form this season, this was always going to be a loss.

also Real Sports is the shittiest place to watch a TFC game. We got told by the manager no less that since TFC is so terrible the patrons at Real Sports were more interrested by the US Open Cup golf thing. It's pretty pathetic that an MLSE owned bar won't show an MLSE owned team broadcast on an MLSE owned channel.

[KGH]

My only 2 questions would be:

a) When does the ownership take effect at MLSE?

b) When the new ownership takes over at MLSE, are there any plans to replace who runs Toronto FC?

A) I believe I read sept/oct

B) don't hold your breath. The MLSE organization has bigger issues than tfc. Rogers and bell bought the stake in Mlse for access to content. Each have their own sportsnet work that needs programming. And the programming they care about is the leafs first and then the raptors. Period. If anyone thinks for a moment that tfc issues will make their "give a shit" list for the first little they're delusional.

[tfc2008]

I actually thought we just played ok! TFC started SLOWLY, but second half could have easily scored 3 or 4 goals! Kansas hardly saw the ball for the majority of the second half!

I'm sure it will take a couple of games to get set into Mariner's style of play, but this was an ok start I thought. There is certainly no need to shit the bed due to this result. Avila was unlucky not to score and that goal could have changed the game just at the right time for TFC. I mean - how unlucky can you be hitting BOTH posts?!

Away at Kansas was NEVER going to be an easy game, so I'm not surprised at the result. But I'm happy that TFC got some posession in the second half and had quite a few chances on goal.

Take a couple of games haha untill the end, was better that everyone had patient and let Aron do wat he was doing.

[SoccMan]

Hey " Pinkie" let me get this right you were at the Real Sports Bar and you asked them to put the TFC game on and they would not, wow. Did they put the game on on any of the many TV screens they have there? If an MLSE owned bar does not care about a team they own and don't care about promoting their own team then why should we care. This kind of thing wants me to hate this company even more, what a joke.

[Pigfynn]

Last night, for the first time since TFC came into existence I just totally forgot they were even playing.

I have to stress that I have never forgotten TFC was playing...ever.

I have missed games (although very rarely) due to events and family functions, but I have never just forgot they were on.

I did that last night and then realized an hour after the game had ended.

The worst part was that when I heard the result I was actually relieved that I didn't have to suffer through it as I'm sure I would have.

I felt good that I had avoided the "pain" of watching a team that I love more than any team I have ever loved.

My question is....Who's fault is this? Who has let it come to this? This club had everything it needed to be a success

How the fuck did things get this bad? and who can fix it?

Just really fed up and tired of reading the same things on here for 6 years

[Pinkie]

Hey " Pinkie" let me get this right you were at the Real Sports Bar and you asked them to put the TFC game on and they would not, wow. Did they put the game on on any of the many TV screens they have there? If an MLSE owned bar does not care about a team they own and don't care about promoting their own team then why should we care. This kind of thing wants me to hate this company even more, what a joke.

knowing that there were no Leafs, Raptors, Marlies or Jays game happening last night we asked the hostess if the game was going to be on the big screen (which really is the only reason to go watch any sport at Real Sports) we were told definitely. we asked our waitress as well and she said definitely. When came time for kick off we could see the game on the tiny screens on the side but when we complained and asked for the game to be put on the big screen and were told it wasn't going to happen - the manager told us that yeah, TFC isn't good and no one really wants to see them. When we then asked for our bills right away and bitched because really its pathetic, he recanted and said he'd show it in another room for us-to which we said no. Went to Hoops down the street and they put on the game for us.

lots of words to say - Real Sports is shit, and I'm never going there again for a TFC game.

[SoccMan]

Both goals scored by SKC was a pathetic display by the trio of Henry, Cann and the much beloved Ekersley, just have a look at that first SKC goal and see how all three of these dummies are at fault on that goal, classic example on why this team has been so bad from day one back in 2007 and continues to be crap in 2012 it's goals like this one!

[tfcleeds]

knowing that there were no Leafs, Raptors, Marlies or Jays game happening last night we asked the hostess if the game was going to be on the big screen (which really is the only reason to go watch any sport at Real Sports) we were told definitely. we asked our waitress as well and she said definitely. When came time for kick off we could see the game on the tiny screens on the side but when we complained and asked for the game to be put on the big screen and were told it wasn't going to happen - the manager told us that yeah, TFC isn't good and no one really wants to see them. When we then asked for our bills right away and bitched because really its pathetic, he recanted and said he'd show it in another room for us-to which we said no. Went to Hoops down the street and they put on the game for us.

lots of words to say - Real Sports is shit, and I'm never going there again for a TFC game.

They'll be lucky if they ever get my business again, for anything, let alone TFC. Especially after the way I was treated last time I went.

[CoachGT]

Just watched the first half again, then came online to watch the interviews with Mariner and Dunfield. Dunfield gave our defence a new name that will probably stick for the year - the "SUICIDE DEFENCE". Not sure if that was directed at the players or the feeling that watching it gives the fans. Cann is not good enough. Henry is not good enough - yet.

KC had at least 5 outstanding chances before they scored. And a couple were just poorly executed (probably because they didn't think the ball was going to arrive where it did - the element of surprise worked against them). Avila's chance was outstanding and there, it is one of the few instances where I can honestly believe the phrase "bad luck" could be used. After KC went up 2-0, that changed the game and they could afford to take their foot off the gas. I'm not of the belief that TFC played great after that, just that KC relaxed a bit. Had TFC scored, I think we would have seen more of what we saw in the first 20 minutes from KC.

I'm very disappointed following this game. While I understand the need to adjust, the message post game was pride in the work ethic. I'm not sure that there was ever any dispute, except for a couple of games and maybe for a player or two, about the work ethic under Winter. Discussion on twitter from the media types was along the liones of "give Mariner a chance to rebuild". Wasn't he involved in the building of this team? Wasn't the discussion about "tweaks", not a complete rebuild?

Add to that the discussion about RealSports! So an MLSE-owned bar doesn't consider soccer to be a real sport, instead they put golf on? I can safely say I will not return to RealSports anytime soon (I actually have gone there with clients), TFC game or anything else!

[Greatest Ripoff]

Both goals scored by SKC was a pathetic display by the trio of Henry, Cann and the much beloved Ekersley, just have a look at that first SKC goal and see how all three of these dummies are at fault on that goal, classic example on why this team has been so bad from day one back in 2007 and continues to be crap in 2012 it's goals like this one!

On the first goal shouldn't have let the cross happen in the first place.

[CoachGT]

One other comment. On twitter, asif posted that at least Petersen didn't have a good game. Well, he threw in the cross for the first goal, had an identical one a couple of minutes before that, and threw the ball in when it just missed the post. In the first 25 minutes, he was on fire. But the good point that MLSE's blogger can post is he didn't have a great game?

[ag futbol]

KC had at least 5 outstanding chances before they scored. And a couple were just poorly executed (probably because they didn't think the ball was going to arrive where it did - the element of surprise worked against them). Avila's chance was outstanding and there, it is one of the few instances where I can honestly believe the phrase "bad luck" could be used. After KC went up 2-0, that changed the game and they could afford to take their foot off the gas. I'm not of the belief that TFC played great after that, just that KC relaxed a bit. Had TFC scored, I think we would have seen more of what we saw in the first 20 minutes from KC.

Agreed, I've made points like this continuously about TFC. People often get tunnel vision and say "well we looked good at this time" etc... but it often fails to take into account what the other team is doing and what their motivation is. We'd often look good attacking because other teams WANTED us to attack so we could get out of position so they could burn us on the counter.

In the end, TFC is a terrible team and they do what terrible teams do, which is squander opportunity.

[Canary10]

I only saw the first half and it was one of the worst halves of football I've seen from this team. Lifeless. No ideas. No creativity. No skill. No passion. No pride. But at least the second half was better!

I am still baffled by playing 4-4-2. Avila doesn't work as a wide midfielder. There's no place for Plata in this formation. Not a good use of the players we actually have.

[Cashcleaner]

knowing that there were no Leafs, Raptors, Marlies or Jays game happening last night we asked the hostess if the game was going to be on the big screen (which really is the only reason to go watch any sport at Real Sports) we were told definitely. we asked our waitress as well and she said definitely. When came time for kick off we could see the game on the tiny screens on the side but when we complained and asked for the game to be put on the big screen and were told it wasn't going to happen - the manager told us that yeah, TFC isn't good and no one really wants to see them. When we then asked for our bills right away and bitched because really its pathetic, he recanted and said he'd show it in another room for us-to which we said no. Went to Hoops down the street and they put on the game for us.

lots of words to say - Real Sports is shit, and I'm never going there again for a TFC game.

This isn't directed at you, Pinkie, but are we really surprised that Real Sports is turning out to be a shit place to watch any sport or team which isn't de rigueur at the moment? Your story basically says it all. TFC is good and no-one wants to watch them, so the bar isn't showing the match. The fact that both entities are owned and operated by the same parent corporation means NOTHING to these people. There is no such thing as loyalty or allegiance in MLSE's playbook.

[TFC USA]

Damn, just when Winter had something going by beating the giants of the Union and inching closer to a 25 game winning streak, Mariner ruins it all by losing with this elite collection of talent on a club just one player away from contending.

These results shouldn't shock anyone. We are the worst team in MLS, and by a measurable distance. Just be glad Houston shouldn't dominate us that badly and that we're back home next Saturday.

[Canary10]

Damn, just when Winter had something going by beating the giants of the Union and inching closer to a 25 game winning streak, Mariner ruins it all by losing with this elite collection of talent on a club just one player away from contending.

These results shouldn't shock anyone. We are the worst team in MLS, and by a measurable distance. Just be glad Houston shouldn't dominate us that badly and that we're back home next Saturday.

No one should be surprised at the result, but the fact that we lost with complete disinterest should worry people.

[Pookie]

what a terrible game by a terrible team. but then again with KC being in pretty awesome form this season, this was always going to be a loss.

This is true based on our roster mismanagement, we don't have the players to compete. That said, why do we accept this?

TFC outspends SKC by millions. Approximately $3.5M to be exact. In MLS terms, that's huge. On paper, we should have the 3rd best roster in the league.

This would be like Yankees fans losing to Tampa and saying oh well. What can you do? They have a good team?

No, I'm sorry. We outspend them... with our Season Ticket money... and should expect... no, demand... results.

And all this talk about Avila converting making this a different story. Sure. But if SKC converted their plethora of chances in the first 30, we'd be looking at a 6-0 scoreline before Avila rings it off the woodwork.

[TFC USA]

We also lost several game this season quite handily with complete interest.

What should worry people is not just the players not looking arsed to do anything, but how bad this team is. I think that this board gets way too high on a couple of wins because we've been so shit that any little bit of success is something we could "build on", and we haven't done that since Carver was in charge.

What worries me the most is whether or not being well on course for the worst record in MLS history will kill off any interest in DPs wanting to sign with us or any other top talent.

[69Chevy396]

The pros and cons of Winter and the new guy are interesting, but isn't it time to make some trades while we still have a few marketable players on the team? What is the point of keeping 3 DP on a 1-10 club? What could we get for Frings, JDG or Koevermans? None of these players will be around when/if this team ever starts playing like a pro club, might as well use them as fodder. If you can trade DeRo, you can trade anybody, so might as well take a stab at it cause this club is CSL quality right now.

[Pookie]

^ and the Anselmi show will chase away any interest from any legitimate managers given the way that Winter was handled and the "support" he got from those in management.

[TFC USA]

This is true based on our roster mismanagement, we don't have the players to compete. That said, why do we accept this?

Is it possible that Torontonian sports fans just accept things as they are? I can't speak for you guys but it seems a possibility to me. Look at all the sports teams in Toronto who haven't won shit for a minimum of two decades. I do think a losing culture breeds low expectations and easier placation of fans for any minor success.

[sully]

I hope MLSE are planning to reduce next season's tickets by 50% to 70% if they believe in the long term at all.

[jloome]

Damn, just when Winter had something going by beating the giants of the Union and inching closer to a 25 game winning streak, Mariner ruins it all by losing with this elite collection of talent on a club just one player away from contending.

These results shouldn't shock anyone. We are the worst team in MLS, and by a measurable distance. Just be glad Houston shouldn't dominate us that badly and that we're back home next Saturday.

While I agree it's unrealistic for people to remember Winter, a losing coach, as some sort of tactical genius, it is equally unrealistic to dismiss how much more competitive his team was than the shit we saw yesterday, which was awful. Awful.

Winter's team battled RSL in Salt Lake to within one minute of a 2-2 draw, and had just won two games. When he was fired, we probably WEREN'T the worst team in the league anymore, as anyone who's watched Philly or L.A. coudl attest. We weren't competitive, and I get that, and your point is valid.

But to not see yesterday as a step backwards seems short-sighted. It was dreadful.

I don't think Winter was the answer, long-term, as he couldn't motivate, and we need a coach who is the whole package. But I see nothing from Mariner that suggests he'll be better.

[Canary10]

We also lost several game this season quite handily with complete interest.

What should worry people is not just the players not looking arsed to do anything, but how bad this team is. I think that this board gets way too high on a couple of wins because we've been so shit that any little bit of success is something we could "build on", and we haven't done that since Carver was in charge.

What worries me the most is whether or not being well on course for the worst record in MLS history will kill off any interest in DPs wanting to sign with us or any other top talent.

I'm ok with them losing to a good team if they show some fight and pride. Like jloome said, they did that against RSL. And Santos. Last night was dreadful.

[Pookie]

Is it possible that Torontonian sports fans just accept things as they are? I can't speak for you guys but it seems a possibility to me. Look at all the sports teams in Toronto who haven't won shit for a minimum of two decades. I do think a losing culture breeds low expectations and easier placation of fans for any minor success.

Honestly, when it comes to soccer I think too many are wrapped up in the flag... or at least the spin that comes from MLSE about the benefits of local development.

I put out an opinion that we have too many Canadian players on our roster to compete in this North American league. Specifically, I felt that because of MLS quota rules which requires 3 Canadian players, it was a mistake... from a competitive perspective... to not require Canadian players 4-9 to be the best at their position. Let a Dunfield prove that he is the best available in North American for that roster slot. Same with Cann or Henry or JDG. Earn the spot.

Vancouver and Montreal have 4 and 3 and at most, 1 of those 7 play. TFC have 9. Of those, 4-5 are regular starters or at least receive significant minutes (Morgan, Cann, JDG, Henry/Dunfield). The best Canadian on the pitch last night played for SKC (Bunbury).

They also had 15 Americans. We have 7 and maybe 1 or 2 are regular starters (Johnson and take your pick of Avila/Hall/Silva). It seems ridiculously stupid to not seek players from the better talent pool when MLS rules allow you to do so. Further,the Canadian slots are largely untradeable since US teams count Canadians as Internationals.

That means that to improve this team via trade we are essentially limiting our assets to our US players (Avila, Johnson, Emory, Hall, Harden, Maund and Silva). RJ, aside, think that is enough to get folks excited?

But if you offer this view, you end up flirting with the idea that you are anti-Canadian and trying to blame a group of players that we are partial too. It's not personal as far as I'm concerned. How can someone suggest that developing Canadian players, given this terrific Academy (sarcasm) we have heard so much about? (look into the actual Academy model and you'll see why I am less then enthusiastic about this as the main route for player acquisition).

TFC is not the development team for the Men's National Team. We are competing in a North American league...well on paper we are because any roster we've assembled over the last 5+ seasons really hasn't been that competitive.

[jloome]

Honestly, when it comes to soccer I think too many are wrapped up in the flag... or at least the spin that comes from MLSE about the benefits of local development.

I put out an opinion that we have too many Canadian players on our roster to compete in this North American league. Specifically, I felt that because of MLS quota rules which requires 3 Canadian players, it was a mistake... from a competitive perspective... to not require Canadian players 4-9 to be the best at their position. Let a Dunfield prove that he is the best available in North American for that roster slot. Same with Cann or Henry or JDG. Earn the spot.

Vancouver and Montreal have 4 and 3 and at most, 1 of those 7 play. TFC have 9. Of those, 4-5 are regular starters or at least receive significant minutes (Morgan, Cann, JDG, Henry/Dunfield). The best Canadian on the pitch last night played for SKC (Bunbury).

They also had 15 Americans. We have 7 and maybe 1 or 2 are regular starters (Johnson and take your pick of Avila/Hall/Silva). It seems ridiculously stupid to not seek players from the better talent pool when MLS rules allow you to do so. Further,the Canadian slots are largely untradeable since US teams count Canadians as Internationals.

That means that to improve this team via trade we are essentially limiting our assets to our US players (Avila, Johnson, Emory, Hall, Harden, Maund and Silva). RJ, aside, think that is enough to get folks excited?

But if you offer this view, you end up flirting with the idea that you are anti-Canadian and trying to blame a group of players that we are partial too. It's not personal as far as I'm concerned. How can someone suggest that developing Canadian players, given this terrific Academy (sarcasm) we have heard so much about? (look into the actual Academy model and you'll see why I am less then enthusiastic about this as the main route for player acquisition).

TFC is not the development team for the Men's National Team. We are competing in a North American league...well on paper we are because any roster we've assembled over the last 5+ seasons really hasn't been that competitive.

I would say we've taken a long-view approach that makes the most sense corporately: develop from within, so that development costs are lower due to proximity, then maximize potential later resale value due to the low initial development cost.

I mean, I hate to be cynical, but it's business to these guys. They already make a few million -- minimum, after the books are cooked -- a year on the team; if they can add three or four player sales of $2-5M each over a 15-year period? Hoot mon, they've just doubled the team's relative share value.

That's what we're dealing with. In Seattle, they're so popular it has literally taken cult/belief-based overtones, in part because of a front office that cared about footie so much, they gave the fans a say. Are they making as much money as TFC? Probably, maybe more. No one says life has to be all risk, but without a little conflict, there are no new ideas, and no advancement.

Welcome to a team of guaranteed 5.5% annual returns over a long period, and no advancement on the pitch.

I will say, however, that if they keep the hands off from here on in and leave Mariner alone, he's got the knowledge and background to put something winning together. I simply don't expect it to happen. They'll probably axe his ass if we're not winning most games by this time next year.