Welcome Paul Mariner as new head coach

[Canary10]

In Venky's we trust. That's my feeling, and it may be a bit obscure to the casual fan but it's the truth.

[__wowza]

my two cents on the matter, most of the negativity is surrounding the decisions based on the club, not mariner being hired.
my main point of contention is that we had him, then we hired klinsman, he gave a shortlist of coaches, then BDK and winter got hired, then we fired winter, now we wasted time and money for someone we had all along. that's bad ownership, but i digress.

i wish this came sooner, before the first friendly.
and personally, i dont care what he does, i dont care if he rips up the formation, the fans are getting restless and they want results. i was willing to give winter the benefit of the doubt in re-inventing "our culture", but i've heard no talk of that this time around.

[Redcoe15]

Good luck to you, Paul Mariner. With those dickholes at ML$E above you, yer gonna need it!

[Oldtimer]

I think this thread is in the right spirit, we should do all we can to make him feel welcome... it may be a brief stay or it may be longer, but we should give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.

It's clear that he will be judged, and should be judged from the first game. He's made a big point that he won't try to get MLS plumbers to try to play like Barcelona, rather he will fit the play around who he's got. He's also indicated that no drastic changes are coming, more like refinements, so he's happy with the players that he's got. So he's accepted the challenge of immediate results, and by immediate results he will be judged.

If he can get this underachieving group to play to their potential, then we will all cheer him on. If the team goes 0-9 for the next 9 games, then we'll call for his head. Results for the rest of this season is all that matters, and the clock starts ticking right now.

Welcome Paul Mariner, head coach of TFC.

[Suds]

my two cents on the matter, most of the negativity is surrounding the decisions based on the club, not mariner being hired.
my main point of contention is that we had him, then we hired klinsman, he gave a shortlist of coaches, then BDK and winter got hired, then we fired winter, now we wasted time and money for someone we had all along. that's bad ownership, but i digress.

i wish this came sooner, before the first friendly.
and personally, i dont care what he does, i dont care if he rips up the formation, the fans are getting restless and they want results. i was willing to give winter the benefit of the doubt in re-inventing "our culture", but i've heard no talk of that this time around.

Agreed. We should not misplace our anger at TFC's constant shit show on Mariner. (not yet anyway ) I'll be as cautiously optimistic as I am when any new coach is brought in. Give him a chance to prove himself. With that said, making the team win a few games or play close .500 is not what I would call a resounding success with respect to a caching change. To me that's just more of the same.

Good luck, Paul.


#FireAnselmi

[Brooker]

[pekduck]

My advice to him would be to rent rather than buy.

I liked what he said about systems being overrated. I have argued that many times.

I think a system is necessary but insufficient on its own. The coach/manager should be flexible enough to alter such system to get the most out of the hand dealt. Then utilize trades to acquire players that suit the system with the ultimate goal of having players that suit the system to get the most effectiveness.

Winter seems to stick with the system and trying to force everyone into it, which may work for younger players, but not for ones already grown. Mariner gives me the fear of always wing it with what he has and not having a system in place. It will get more immediate results and it will be unsustainable in the long run if there is not a fixed strategy in place for player retention and acquisition.

Just a fear, we'll see how he does. The old boys won the turf war, as long as they deliver, I guess it's still okay.

[Phil]

Although I have all kinds of frustration surround Anselmi, I do wish Paul the best of luck in his new role.

I wish Winter the best of luck and want to thank him for at least trying.

[Gazza]

Just when i think i understand the MLS game, i get a kick in the head that makes me realize otherwise.

So i can't prejudge Mariner, as i have no clue what will happen from here on in.

But i hope nothing but the best for him going forward. (still expecting the worst).

Go Canada Go!

[Beach_Red]

I think a system is necessary but insufficient on its own. The coach/manager should be flexible enough to alter such system to get the most out of the hand dealt. Then utilize trades to acquire players that suit the system with the ultimate goal of having players that suit the system to get the most effectiveness.

Winter seems to stick with the system and trying to force everyone into it, which may work for younger players, but not for ones already grown. Mariner gives me the fear of always wing it with what he has and not having a system in place. It will get more immediate results and it will be unsustainable in the long run if there is not a fixed strategy in place for player retention and acquisition.

Just a fear, we'll see how he does. The old boys won the turf war, as long as they deliver, I guess it's still okay.

What does this mean, offer more money than other teams? Salary management in this league with the changing number of DPs, allocation and all the mysteries that surround it make any kind of strategy a guess at best.

MLS is a work in progress and no one really knows where it's going to be in five years. Maybe the salary cap will triple and domestic quotas will get reduced, maybe this is as big as soccer is going to get in the US or maybe it's peaked and revenues and salaries will shrink.

All this talk of long tem planning was just marketing babble to buy a delay in results.

[pekduck]

What does this mean, offer more money than other teams? Salary management in this league with the changing number of DPs, allocation and all the mysteries that surround it make any kind of strategy a guess at best.

MLS is a work in progress and no one really knows where it's going to be in five years. Maybe the salary cap will triple and domestic quotas will get reduced, maybe this is as big as soccer is going to get in the US or maybe it's peaked and revenues and salaries will shrink.

All this talk of long tem planning was just marketing babble to buy a delay in results.

Actually, I was not talking about the cost or the method of acquiring and retaining players in a salary capped league with changing dynamics. I was referring to the strategy of acquiring and retaining the appropriate type of players. They are related but still distinctly different.

If I may draw a parallel, what you proposed is right, and it is 'execution'. The method to execute varies and changes from time to time. I'm referring to the vision per se.

[Auzzy]

I would like to let East Side Stand Up! speak for me, today's strip is too perfect to not quote here.

http://www.eastsidestandup.com/

That's all I have to say in this thread at the moment. Just remember that the house always wins.

[jabbronies]

I've played and watched the game for too long in this country. It's in no one's interests to see TFC fail. I really don't feel good about Mariner for a lot of reasons but Anselmi is not the right rudder for the club and Mariner isn't to blame for that. I actually think the record will improve in the next few months.

Let's hope it's as simple as a change of strategy and minor tweaks as Mariner said. Otherwise we'll be 8 mangers in 8 years.

[PureTFC]

Good luck to Paul at a different organization at the end of the season.

[CoachGT]

I wish Paul all the best in the role, although I now have no expectations at all.

I think formations are heavily overrated and think that there is something else at the basis of our problems and hope that Paul has a handle on that. The only common thread I've heard from different places is the issue of having a clearly defined game and positional strategy, and Paul alluded to that as well. I also think the role of coach is overrated at times - a coach can win a couple of games or lose a couple of games through his decisions. I hope Paul can win a couple.

[Beach_Red]

Actually, I was not talking about the cost or the method of acquiring and retaining players in a salary capped league with changing dynamics. I was referring to the strategy of acquiring and retaining the appropriate type of players. They are related but still distinctly different.

If I may draw a parallel, what you proposed is right, and it is 'execution'. The method to execute varies and changes from time to time. I'm referring to the vision per se.

Yes, all I'm saying is that for this league the "vision" needs to be very flexible because as you say the method to execute changes - maybe more than just from time to time.

Probably everyone involved in MLS has an idea of what they want the league to look like in ten or fifteen years - they want it to look like all the top leagues in the world. But there's no clear roadmap to get there.

I thought what TFC did with Klinsmann and trying to import and impose a culture was a mistake - it was the vision equivalent of Fieldturf, something you bought rather than grew yourself (okay that's a terrible metaphor , maybe it's more like the what the Firkin pubs are to a real pub). And who knows, maybe this move won't work out any better, but it certainly feels a lot less pretentious and a lot more 'Toronto.'

[Oldtimer]

I thought what TFC did with Klinsmann and trying to import and impose a culture was a mistake - it was the vision equivalent of Fieldturf, something you bought rather than grew yourself (okay that's a terrible metaphor , maybe it's more like the what the Firkin pubs are to a real pub). And who knows, maybe this move won't work out any better, but it certainly feels a lot less pretentious and a lot more 'Toronto.'

It wasn't a 100% wrong idea, having a consistent playing form is good in an academy situation. What was wrong was trying to apply it in the first team to MLS plumbers from outside the system. It also could be questioned whether the system chosen was a natural fit, given that 4-3-3 and technical play is fairly uncommon in Canada, although it's getting better known now.

[pekduck]

Yes, all I'm saying is that for this league the "vision" needs to be very flexible because as you say the method to execute changes - maybe more than just from time to time.

Probably everyone involved in MLS has an idea of what they want the league to look like in ten or fifteen years - they want it to look like all the top leagues in the world. But there's no clear roadmap to get there.

I thought what TFC did with Klinsmann and trying to import and impose a culture was a mistake - it was the vision equivalent of Fieldturf, something you bought rather than grew yourself (okay that's a terrible metaphor , maybe it's more like the what the Firkin pubs are to a real pub). And who knows, maybe this move won't work out any better, but it certainly feels a lot less pretentious and a lot more 'Toronto.'

MLSE owned sports teams, or may be I should just say TFC, never had a clear vision on how to create a championship team. It's more or less, throw it together and hope it works and makes money. From Anselmi's presser yesterday, it's evident, hands off, hope for the best, if it doesn't work, can the rank and file, repeat and rinse.

Import and impose a culture change is the cure to the fundamental ailment of this franchise. Regardless if Klinsmann and Winter's approach is good or bad, but that's the first time this franchise tried to labour under a coherent target. Change management failed.

The way it is, yes, you are right, is less pretentious. A lot more Toronto, strikes me another cord that the city planning of Toronto also lacks a vision, it's a mess. However, that's another topic for another day.

May be I should just give up on a 'perfect soccer organization' in Toronto all together. lol.

[Beach_Red]

It wasn't a 100% wrong idea, having a consistent playing form is good in an academy situation. What was wrong was trying to apply it in the first team to MLS plumbers from outside the system. It also could be questioned whether the system chosen was a natural fit, given that 4-3-3 and technical play is fairly uncommon in Canada, although it's getting better known now.

Yes, I agree with this, it wasn't a 100% wrong idea. It never seemed likely that MLSE really had the stomach for such a big risk, though (I suppose not many companies do, really). there were just too many ifs - if the league moves quickly enough in that direction, if the players could be found and retained (as Pekduck says) and so on. It seemed, as our 1-9 record shows so far, that it was going to be all or nothing - either stick with the plan for many years and hope the league gets better, the refs get better (the travel won't get less but maybe the conditioning will get better) the scouting gets better and so on - or don't win very many games.

There's no reason it can't still be a long-term goal. As you say, start it with the academy and see how it develops.

[rowjimi]

I certainly wish Paul the best. We need this coaching carousel to stop and need to get back to moving the club forward. He is confident in his skills and I hope that shows through the players. My concern (like many others) is the FO. The actions of the club do not reflect cohesiveness but indecision and back stabbing. It is more important now than ever to cheer on the players and help them get through another period of transition. We have heard of coaches losing a locker room how about an the entire organization losing the locker room.

[Beach_Red]

MLSE owned sports teams, or may be I should just say TFC, never had a clear vision on how to create a championship team. It's more or less, throw it together and hope it works and makes money. From Anselmi's presser yesterday, it's evident, hands off, hope for the best, if it doesn't work, can the rank and file, repeat and rinse.

Import and impose a culture change is the cure to the fundamental ailment of this franchise. Regardless if Klinsmann and Winter's approach is good or bad, but that's the first time this franchise tried to labour under a coherent target. Change management failed.

The way it is, yes, you are right, is less pretentious. A lot more Toronto, strikes me another cord that the city planning of Toronto also lacks a vision, it's a mess. However, that's another topic for another day.

May be I should just give up on a 'perfect soccer organization' in Toronto all together. lol.

Well yeah, we should all give up on the idea of any organization being 'perfect' .

Importing a culture may have worked if they'd imported someone with a big enough resume to also head it up - not at the coach or GM level but at the president level - and he might have had to be 'president for life' and not fire-able. Organizations take on the personalities of their leaders (I fought this idea for many years but now I've seen it too often to ignore) and this organization has slick politicians whose personal survival in the organization is their top priority as leaders. And leader isn't even the right word.

I hope people aren't using the term "MLS plumbers" in a negative way, it's nothing to be ashamed of and recognizing that's what we are and working with it may bring some positive results.

[DangerRed]

I for one welcome our new dentally challenged overlord.

We're starting from the bottom of the pit. There's no way to go but up. And he's already said this season we're playing for "pride" and "putting smiles on fans' faces." The man's a realist, since this season is long gone.

Now, let's hurry up and crash out of the CCL, make it to the fall and start the shit-show all over again, without JDG and a new DP in his place.

Tally ho!

[canadian_bhoy]

Pretty sure that TFC will schedule another press conference to announce Mariner has now been fired for having not won any games as head coach.

Here's an exclusive video of a new documentary called "Toronto FC - the life of coaching"
Link

[Oldtimer]

I hope people aren't using the term "MLS plumbers" in a negative way, it's nothing to be ashamed of and recognizing that's what we are and working with it may bring some positive results.

I don't. This league is built on ordinary hard-working guys who grew up in the NCAA system. They are what they are, not EPL top players, not bottom rung-players in some Eastern European fourth division. They have real talent, and deserve to be respected as the professionals they are. They will never play for a top 10 club in the world but will have decent professions in a sport that they love. They form the foundation of any successful MLS team, not the DPs. The star DPs are just a touch of caviar with your mac and cheese, so to speak.

[PureTFC]

Pretty sure that TFC will schedule another press conference to announce Mariner has now been fired for having not won any games as head coach.

Paul is in deep and at the worst point in hoping he has any rope from the folks watching TFC. I don't wish ill will to coaches and players personally but he's sitting to left of Anselmi's throne and the cross hairs are directly on him. The teflon don will never take the bullet.

[Canary10]

Let's not feel too sorry for Mariner. He got this job out of duplicity.

[Beach_Red]

Let's not feel too sorry for Mariner. He got this job out of duplicity.

Does this seem like the kind of organization where some other strategy will get you promoted? Let's face it, MLSE is pretty much run like the CBC...

[denime]

Just when i think i understand the MLS game, i get a kick in the head that makes me realize otherwise.

So i can't prejudge Mariner, as i have no clue what will happen from here on in.

But i hope nothing but the best for him going forward. (still expecting the worst).

Go Canada Go!

WHAT HE SAID!

All we can do now is wait and hope for the best AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN ...

[A Stick]

What scares me about Mariner are his choices to plug up our leaky defence. Andy Iro and the two South American stiffs! MSLE have picked 6 wrong managers before why stop now.

[T-boy]

I never liked what Aron Winter had to say when he first took over at TFC. He was all about "my way of the highway". His insistence in playing 4-3-3 and ONLY 4-3-3 - (he said so in his first interview if you look back at it). He only wanted to play one way and he was never going to change or adapt, even if they players he had weren't up to it.

But, I'm VERY happy with what Mariner has said so far. He's said that the system and formation will be dictated by the players he has - which is great! That is what I like to hear - a coach who is willing to adapt and use the resources he has already. He also doesn't want to majorly change things, he said there will be minor tweeks and adjustments.

So far so good for Mariner, if you ask me!