Report: ADP will join LA Galaxy at the window

[Beach_Red]

Unfortunately this is sometimes not true in leagues that invoke revenue sharing.

Revenue sharing usually helps keep some teams from going bankrupt but look at what is probably the most revenue-sharing league in the world, the NFL - some teams win a lot more often than others and they're worth more and are more profitable. Sure, Cincinatti still makes money (mostly because TV revenue is shared) but New England makes a lot more money.

[Richard]

Im just tired of the favouritism. Why doesnt the league promote other cites as well? There is more to NA than LA or NY, TFC is probably the third highest in money generated in the league. If they continue with this then they might as well get rid of the cap.

Im curious though with how he was signed, does the team need cap space now or when he joins the team. The contract is submited to the league and im sure they have no space now.

[Yohan]

I think it's highly probable that either Landon Donovan or Robbie Keane will leave in summer transfer window. Donovan more likely

[Bluenose13]

1. When JDG was signed we were elated. We wanted a Canadian.
2. We have more SSH than we did before we signed JDG.
3. Nearly every team is sports has profit in mind, why else would someone run a franchise? To lose millions of dollars?
4. Its insane to think MLSE doesn't want TFC to win. There is far more money in winning than losing. Losing comes with lost revenue, the opposite of what MLSE wants.
5. We have the 3rd highest payroll in the league.

Nicely put and so obvious, unless of course your head is stuck up your ass and in your world the sky is always falling.

[TFC07]

I can say that they were born as a result of a business deal because they were born as a result of a business deal.

Specifically an October 2005 proposal submitted to Toronto City Council entitled "Soccer Stadium at Exhibition Place."

You might find page 6 fairly interesting in which... and I quote...

"Some of the essential points of the business arrangement are as follows:

.....

vi) requirement for MLSE to purchase a major league soccer franchise to be located in Toronto "


Full proposal is here: http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa...nto Report.pdf

You see, the stadium came before the team and the team was necessary to secure a share of the operating profits. Read further on, they only pegged attendance at 14k and were expecting ongoing share of revenues from FIFA U20 event, CSA games, concerts, and potentially the Argos of CFL fame. As part of the deal, a MLS team was necessary.

MLSE was interested getting a MLS team as long they had a stadium located in downtown Toronto. They wouldn't force to get a MLS team so government can provide funds to build a soccer stadium in Toronto for FIFA under 20. They didn't buy MLS club to do favours for CSA or government. MLSE use government so they didn't have to build a soccer stadium with all their money. When Argos backed out with their deal with York University (and U of T) & BMO field and decided to stick with Rogers Centre, MLSE stepped in and saved idea of building a soccer stadium at Exhibition.

MLSE wasn't doing any favours for anyone but for themselves.

[TFC07]

1. When JDG was signed we were elated. We wanted a Canadian.
2. We have more SSH than we did before we signed JDG.
3. Nearly every team is sports has profit in mind, why else would someone run a franchise? To lose millions of dollars?
4. Its insane to think MLSE doesn't want TFC to win. There is far more money in winning than losing. Losing comes with lost revenue, the opposite of what MLSE wants.
5. We have the 3rd highest payroll in the league.

Thank you!

Unfortunately this is sometimes not true in leagues that invoke revenue sharing.

True, but winning ACC is a huge deal for TFC because they make more money since they get to play more home games.

[prizby]

True, but winning ACC is a huge deal for TFC because they make more money since they get to play more home games.

Games in which they don't have to share revenue

[mowe]

I find it funny how the article posted is a TSN story talking about an ESPN article which cites a Soccer Plus post but there are no links to take you back to the original source. Here it is by the way, posted May 17 but didn't get much attention then: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/co...ro-is-LA-bound .

Philippe Germaine's been good with his sources before, so I'm sure this is true as well. Be interesting to see what MLS does with his salary though.

[ensco]

Nicely put and so obvious, unless of course your head is stuck up your ass and in your world the sky is always falling.

This is totally insulting and you should be ashamed, you are acting like a total jerk.

There is no one arguing that MLSE doesn't want to win, what I and others say is that onfield considerations are always secondary to short term profit motives. The high payroll/DP spend isn't being done to improve the team in the long run. It's being used as a booster shot to mask a horrible situation.

[Phil]

There is no way a move like that would be made without objection....unreal.

I am curious to see more sources though.

[Pookie]

Actually, a few weeks ago someone on here explained that MLS has a "salary budget" - that is the amount the league pays towards the salaries of all the teams. It's s ingle-entity league, afterall. But some teams fought for the right to pay additional salaries themselves and so the DP rule was brought in. And then it was increased to three DPs and now it looks like it could be increased some more.

There will likely be many more adjustments to these rules as the league continues to grow. Let's face it, in any sports league in the world some owners spend more on players than others and some owners are always looking for ways around caps and other restrictions. It's not a bad thing, really, just like it's not a bad thing to keep some retraints. Like any business there's a danger in expanding too quickly or too slowly.

It's just too bad the owners of our team aren't the ones to be always pushing for more.

Makes you wonder though who is actually lobbying for some owners to spend more than others. As you highlight, the league is the ultimate owner and revenue is shared. If the league (owner) has popular winning franchises in its largest markets, they stand to benefit do they not in terms of TV audience, ticket sales, etc? Just coincidence that the big names like Henry, Keane, Marquez, all landed in the 2 largest markets?

When you factor in that SUM is involved with Barcelona and MLS and Barcelona had a $0 transfer fee for the NYRBs... it was $5M for any team but NY... it sure sounds like a wonderfully convenient coincidence.

[Pookie]

There is no one arguing that MLSE doesn't want to win, what I and others say is that onfield considerations are always secondary to short term profit motives. The high payroll/DP spend isn't being done to improve the team in the long run. It's being used as a booster shot to mask a horrible situation.

Agreed. With quotes widely available that the search for the first DP included the criteria that he be Canadian, it is clear that we were looking for something to give the public relations meter a shot in the arm and not for the best player available anywhere to help us win championships.

MLSE was interested getting a MLS team as long they had a stadium located in downtown Toronto. They wouldn't force to get a MLS team so government can provide funds to build a soccer stadium in Toronto for FIFA under 20. They didn't buy MLS club to do favours for CSA or government. MLSE use government so they didn't have to build a soccer stadium with all their money. When Argos backed out with their deal with York University (and U of T) & BMO field and decided to stick with Rogers Centre, MLSE stepped in and saved idea of building a soccer stadium at Exhibition.

MLSE wasn't doing any favours for anyone but for themselves.

Of course they weren't. That's my point, TFC came into being as a result of a business deal, not from a desire of an owner to bring championship football to Toronto. Government money was being handed out and the requirement... that's the word in the document.... was that they have an MLS team in order to get it.

For any sport franchise, a stadium is usually part of the bid. Generally speaking, you don't build a stadium unless you know it is going to be used.

However, do you think MLSE calls up MLS and starts talks on a soccer team if those involved in the deal said, look, I don't care who plays there. Just assure us that it will be used at least 18 times and draws 14,000. If Field Lacrosse were popular, or Polo, we'd have just as easily have had one of those teams.

It's not like Philadelphia where 3 separate groups, including supporters, tried over an 8 year period to land a team.

[Oldtimer]

I think it's highly probable that either Landon Donovan or Robbie Keane will leave in summer transfer window. Donovan more likely

Donovan's wanted to go for a while, and he's wanted in the EPL after his last stint there. LA didn't want to let their poster-boy for American Soccer go for the longest time, but he can leave soon on a free transfer, so they should be willing to at least get a few bucks for him now (AEG, a company very much like ML$E in character, although much more competent on the sports success end, knows where the bucks are).

There's no conspiracy, it's very obvious what will happen.

(1) Donovan is sold.
(2) LA receives a transfer fee, let's say it's a couple of mill.
(3) LA get's 2/3 of the transfer fee, MLS get's 1/3, per league policy.
(4) Per league rules, LA can use $500k of the transfer fee as allocation money.
(5) ADP gets signed, $175k (half season charge for a DP) gets paid from the allocation $$$ from Donovan, and LA still has $325k that they can use towards signing someone else at a later date.

No need for favouratism, no need for special magic allocation money.

Also, to anyone who thinks that it's somehow ML$E's fault that a player like ADP won't come to Toronto, well it's time to wake up to reality. We all like T-dot, it's our home after all, but the rest of the world sees Toronto as a pretty boring place. Montreal is a whole lot more attractive than Toronto, and even they can't attract ADP, even with Joey's Italian connections and huge personal wealth.

Discussions about the BMO Field stadium deal, and how ML$E somehow hates us are just not relevent. ML$E would love to get someone like ADP, the revenue he would generate just from Toronto's Italian community alone would easily pay his salary... it's much more economically justifiable than someone like Frings.

We would easily get the big-name players... if we weren't such a relatively boring place to go.

[prizby]

Donovan's wanted to go for a while, and he's wanted in the EPL after his last stint there. LA didn't want to let their poster-boy for American Sawker go, though, but he can leave soon on a free transfer, so they might be willing to try to get a few bucks for him, at least (AEG, much like ML$E, knows where the bucks are).

There's no conspiracy, it's very obvious what will happen.

(1) Donovan is sold.
(2) LA receives a transfer fee, let's say it's a couple of mill.
(3) LA get's 2/3 of the transfer fee, MLS get's 1/3.
(4) Per league rules, LA can use $500k of the transfer fee as allocation money.
(5) ADP gets signed, $175k (half season charge for a DP) gets paid from the allocation $$$ from Donovan, and LA still has $325k that they can use towards signing someone else at a later date.

No need for favouratism, no need for special magic allocation money.

Also, to anyone who thinks that it's somehow ML$E's fault that a player like ADP won't come to Toronto, well it's time to wake up to reality. We all like T-dot, it's our home after all, but the rest of the world sees Toronto as a pretty boring place. Montreal is a whole lot more attractive than Toronto, and even they can't attract ADP, even with Joey's Italian connections and huge personal wealth.

(1)

that was not factored in my thinking...that makes a whole lot of sense; Everton here he goes.

[Oldtimer]

that was not factored in my thinking...that makes a whole lot of sense; Everton here he goes.

Donovan's been pressuring the league, too, to make it happen sooner, rather than later. He's been threatening to retire in the last little while, saying that he's "losing the passion" to play. We'll see, I'm sure his passion for the game could be reignited by a move to Everton.

[mowe]

Donovan's wanted to go for a while, and he's wanted in the EPL after his last stint there. LA didn't want to let their poster-boy for American Soccer go for the longest time, but he can leave soon on a free transfer, so they should be willing to at least get a few bucks for him now (AEG, a company very much like ML$E in character, although much more competent on the sports success end, knows where the bucks are).
...
There's no conspiracy, it's very obvious what will happen.

Reasonable thinking? Get outta town.

[reggie]

RONALDINHO PLEASE...i would pay to see him,shit i already do pay,mlse get him.

[prizby]

RONALDINHO PLEASE...i would pay to see him,shit i already do pay,mlse get him.

with what cap room?

[AL-MO]

This is totally insulting and you should be ashamed, you are acting like a total jerk.

There is no one arguing that MLSE doesn't want to win, what I and others say is that onfield considerations are always secondary to short term profit motives. The high payroll/DP spend isn't being done to improve the team in the long run. It's being used as a booster shot to mask a horrible situation.

Yep. By the 3 Stooges.

[reggie]

the same cap room LA has.its jus a dream,i know we wont get him.

[BHTC Mike]

Why doesnt the league promote other cites as well?

Have you seen what's happened in Kansas City? Wizards/SKC has gone from a perpetual "move that team" to one of the jewels of the league in the time since TFC joined. DC United has gone the opposite direction (and sadly might never be viable in DC again). Houston just opened a great new stadium. Seattle, Philly, Portland, Vancouver, and Montreal have been great expansions. They've moved their secondary TV deal from the tiny subscriber base Fox Soccer Channel to the emerging NBC Sports (former VS) network and got a few more games on the main network as a result. They signed a national TV deal in fricken' CANADA (and I get to watch way more games over tv rather than the 'net). They worked with their Mexican counterparts to create the Superliga which - and the people that claim to value the CCL so highly should keep this in mind when they criticize MLS - lead directly to the creation of the CCL by Jack Warner and friends in response to supersede that competition. The LEAGUE, as a centrally organized partnership of owners and investors, is doing a great job promoting itself and the cities that host its teams. It's not 2002 anymore (when AEG owned 7 out of 10 teams IIRC) when the league was simply focused on survival. What teams are successful on and off the field is down to their ownership. That's the difference between a KC and a DC.

There is more to NA than LA or NY, TFC is probably the third highest in money generated in the league.

And we've got the third highest payroll...

You're forgetting Seattle btw. They're the team we need to be comparing ourselves to: huge fanbase, smart use of salary budget and selective DPs, GREAT COACH, and, if I'm not mistaken, the winningest record in the league since they joined. They've gone nearly as deep in CCL play as us (before going out to the same team, away, in the second half) and have won their domestic cup every year we have (with the chance of doing it again). In the league though they're the anti-TFC: we're 15 points out a playoff spot (that we've never made) in the weaker conference; they're 9 points clear of missing the playoffs (which they've never done) in the tougher conference. Seattle WILL make the playoffs again this year. The only question is whether they'll have a bye or fade and have to play in the play-in round. We'd shit our pants to even BE IN THE HUNT to make the 5th spot in the East and get a one-off AWAY GAME to keep our season alive before we even got the chance to host a playoff game!

Broadly speaking, moaning about LA or NY glamour signings is not seeing the forest for the trees. These signings are designed to bring attention to the league (and sell tickets in EVERY market) not to improve the quality of play and do relatively little to improve those teams. There's an entire league of teams that do better than us on smaller budgets already that we're competing against.

There's no conspiracy, it's very obvious what will happen.

(1) Donovan is sold.

[...]

(5) ADP gets signed, $175k (half season charge for a DP) gets paid from the allocation $$$ from Donovan, and LA still has $325k that they can use towards signing someone else at a later date.

No need for favouratism, no need for special magic allocation money.

Well spotted.

And, presuming it is Donovan that goes instead of Keane to finance this, the real key is what LA does with the rest of the allocation money because Del Piero for Donovan sells more tickets in 2012/3 (around the league and in LA) but DOES NOT make LA better. No way in hell. I suspect it makes them worse. But Arena is a canny operator. People will really flip out when LA uses the left over allocation to sign a solid CB, goes on a strong second half (playing conservative defence first football), and manages to haul themselves back into the playoffs. That's what I used to want for TFC: a team where "bad years" are inconsistent struggles to hang around the last few playoff spots. Right now, that'd equal our best year ever and, if they pull off a big enough turnaround to make the playoffs, actually exceed it.

Champions League: we're having a laugh!

[prizby]

(5) ADP gets signed, $175k (half season charge for a DP) gets paid from the allocation $$$ from Donovan, and LA still has $325k that they can use towards signing someone else at a later date.

should point out that allocation can only pay down to $150k for a cap hit.

[Pookie]

@oldtimer

Donovan leaving would be a great way to explain how they could fit 3 DPs into the system without making up a new rule on the fly

However, the use of magic allocation money and the mysterious base salary vs guaranteed salary in the cap hit calculation means that the smoke and mirror nature of the MLS salary cap is alive and well.

MLS' cap is not like the NHL's which forces teams to sit out players if they are over a daily total. It is very flexible.... based on business opportunities.

The other aspect to this is whether this is the player's choice to end up in LA. Great city but like the $0 transfer for Henry and Marquez to New York or $5M to anyone else by MLS/SUM partner, FC Barcelona, the idea that the league isn't propping up certain franchises behind the scenes is very hard to shake.

[jazzy]

I think it's highly probable that either Landon Donovan or Robbie Keane will leave in summer transfer window. Donovan more likely

actually I think both will leave

[ManUtd4ever]

1. When JDG was signed we were elated. We wanted a Canadian.
2. We have more SSH than we did before we signed JDG.
3. Nearly every team is sports has profit in mind, why else would someone run a franchise? To lose millions of dollars?
4. Its insane to think MLSE doesn't want TFC to win. There is far more money in winning than losing. Losing comes with lost revenue, the opposite of what MLSE wants.
5. We have the 3rd highest payroll in the league.

While I agree that MLSE is primarily a profit driven corporation, I also agree with all of your points.

I have always maintained that there isn't necessarily a lack of monetary will to field a winning product on the part of MLSE, there is a lack of knowledge and expertise within the front office to achieve that goal.

[jazzy]

Donovan's wanted to go for a while, and he's wanted in the EPL after his last stint there. LA didn't want to let their poster-boy for American Soccer go for the longest time, but he can leave soon on a free transfer, so they should be willing to at least get a few bucks for him now (AEG, a company very much like ML$E in character, although much more competent on the sports success end, knows where the bucks are).

There's no conspiracy, it's very obvious what will happen.

(1) Donovan is sold.
(2) LA receives a transfer fee, let's say it's a couple of mill.
(3) LA get's 2/3 of the transfer fee, MLS get's 1/3, per league policy.
(4) Per league rules, LA can use $500k of the transfer fee as allocation money.
(5) ADP gets signed, $175k (half season charge for a DP) gets paid from the allocation $$$ from Donovan, and LA still has $325k that they can use towards signing someone else at a later date.

No need for favouratism, no need for special magic allocation money.

Also, to anyone who thinks that it's somehow ML$E's fault that a player like ADP won't come to Toronto, well it's time to wake up to reality. We all like T-dot, it's our home after all, but the rest of the world sees Toronto as a pretty boring place. Montreal is a whole lot more attractive than Toronto, and even they can't attract ADP, even with Joey's Italian connections and huge personal wealth.

Discussions about the BMO Field stadium deal, and how ML$E somehow hates us are just not relevent. ML$E would love to get someone like ADP, the revenue he would generate just from Toronto's Italian community alone would easily pay his salary... it's much more economically justifiable than someone like Frings.

We would easily get the big-name players... if we weren't such a relatively boring place to go.

unfortunately as much as it hurts I have to agree with you here , esp with our political landscape and horrid transportation etc......when a 'star' and his FAMILY can live anywhere in the world ,...why bring them to TO?...when for many years our cities leaders AND their pro-business/profit/cutbacks agenda and general lack of urban environmental standards has got us to this boring place. We will always be 2nd best on the 'glamour scale for any athlete UNLESS we have a dynamic PrO leadership/owner(s)....as per the world series Jays,..etc....so our hope may only be teams modeled after , less capitol intensive teams such as Norwich City or Swansea in the premiership....that will be our only hope.....and not so bad I'd say.

[Pookie]

While I agree that MLSE is primarily a profit driven corporation, I also agree with all of your points.

I have always maintained that there isn't necessarily a lack of monetary will to field a winning product on the part of MLSE, there is a lack of knowledge and expertise within the front office to achieve that goal.

We all know that MLSE benefits by winning. And I agree with the premise that they aren't tight with the wallet. Those expenditures seems to come in the form of band aids which were necessary when they drove ticket prices to record highs as a result of greed. Not in the form of

Riddle me this though. If they were concerned with winning from the outset, why build a skeleton and inexperienced staff? Why put no resources into training facilities?

My answer would be that while winning was important, protecting profits was paramount. They projected 14k in fans and built infrastructure to ensure that at 14k they were profitable first. When they sold out, they rubbed their hands and jacked ticket prices without boosting infrastructure. Profitability was at an all time high and they were named franchise of the year. Not for performance but for business.

When that infrastructure failed, fans began to ask what they were getting for their money. Rather than bring in experienced, they brought in band aids. A DP or two. Some real grass. Even stadium expansion all came before the Academy and Training facilities. They didnt seek out a consultant until 5ish years into it.

So, while we all know that they benefit from winning, winning has always been secondary to profit protection and our infrasctructure, including personnel, has suffered as a result.

[ManUtd4ever]

Donovan's wanted to go for a while, and he's wanted in the EPL after his last stint there. LA didn't want to let their poster-boy for American Soccer go for the longest time, but he can leave soon on a free transfer, so they should be willing to at least get a few bucks for him now (AEG, a company very much like ML$E in character, although much more competent on the sports success end, knows where the bucks are).

There's no conspiracy, it's very obvious what will happen.

(1) Donovan is sold.
(2) LA receives a transfer fee, let's say it's a couple of mill.
(3) LA get's 2/3 of the transfer fee, MLS get's 1/3, per league policy.
(4) Per league rules, LA can use $500k of the transfer fee as allocation money.
(5) ADP gets signed, $175k (half season charge for a DP) gets paid from the allocation $$$ from Donovan, and LA still has $325k that they can use towards signing someone else at a later date.

No need for favouratism, no need for special magic allocation money.

Also, to anyone who thinks that it's somehow ML$E's fault that a player like ADP won't come to Toronto, well it's time to wake up to reality. We all like T-dot, it's our home after all, but the rest of the world sees Toronto as a pretty boring place. Montreal is a whole lot more attractive than Toronto, and even they can't attract ADP, even with Joey's Italian connections and huge personal wealth.

Discussions about the BMO Field stadium deal, and how ML$E somehow hates us are just not relevent. ML$E would love to get someone like ADP, the revenue he would generate just from Toronto's Italian community alone would easily pay his salary... it's much more economically justifiable than someone like Frings.

We would easily get the big-name players... if we weren't such a relatively boring place to go.

I agree with this entire post with the exception that Toronto is (perceived to be) a boring place to live.

Professional athletes of all designations from all four corners of the earth have had nothing but overwhelmingly positive things to say about our city. In fact, I believe there was a fairly recent poll among NBA players (who are known to love to party) that Toronto was one of their favorite cities in the league in which to endulge themselves.

Perhaps Toronto doesn't have the cache of LA or New York, but it should be right up there in the next echelon of preferred cities to live in for any professional athlete.

[prizby]

I agree with this entire post with the exception that Toronto is (perceived to be) a boring place to live.

Professional athletes of all designations from all four corners of the earth have had nothing but overwhelmingly positive things to say about our city. In fact, I believe there was a fairly recent poll among NBA players (who are known to love to party) that Toronto was one of their favorite cities in the league in which to endulge themselves.

Perhaps Toronto doesn't have the cache of LA or New York, but it should be right up there in the next echelon of preferred cities to live in for any professional athlete.

i guess that explains why superstars leave the Raps and none are interested in joining Toronto

[ManUtd4ever]

i guess that explains why superstars leave the Raps and none are interested in joining Toronto

Was that the case when the Raps were a winning club during the Glen Grunwald era?

Vince Carter and Antonio Davis both re-signed with the Raps as pending free agents during that era and Hakeem Olajuwon signed with the Raps as the prized free agent acquisition of the off season during that era as well.

The reason why star NBA athletes don't want to play in Toronto anymore is because MLSE has run the Raptors franchise into the ground. It has absolutely nothing to do with the appeal or quality of life of our beautiful city.