Whitecaps documentary on various MLS supporter groups

[Roogsy]

people talked about protesting all the time against such things on the boards....but we didn't do a whole lot about it, all we did was a few small things such as North End doing some dollar sign tifo (which was the best effort on the issue) and Red Patch boys telling other fans not to sing...neither of them was enough as we should of forced these issues until they were solved or at least did some sort of display like North End did every week!

Actually RPB did not tell anyone not to sing. That initative was taken by NEE and many RPB followed suit because we agreed.

For all the complaints on this board about "protest", I only recall 2 actual protests by supporters. The 1st was the demonstration at Gate 4 by about 100 fans and the 2nd was the green/silent protest of 2010, and yes I participated in both of them (for those who keep asking me "what do you do".)

There has never really been anything since. Despite our shockingly poor record. Which always makes me chuckle when I hear complaints about "all these protests". 2 protests in 6 years with a club that has this kind of track record is extremely forgiving.

[james]

The timbers army are fantastic aren't they? They truly do everything a supporters group should. I heard one story where they had some sort of run in with their FO over tickets or something rather. Anyways, in short, the timbers army boycotted the entire season. and because this was before they had renovated there stadium, the stadium fences were small enough so all of the timbers army could watch every game from ladders outside the stadium...

A WHOLE SEASON. ON A LADDER.

thats awsome. Back then there group was also much smaller tho, how many people actually did that i am not sure, would be interesting to find out how true this story is, or was it just 10 guys. Even that tho takes a lot to put that much effort into it.

[London]

support in Toronto is brutal, everyone needs to look at themselves and ask what they can do to help, unfortunatly people still believe TFC support IS or EVER WAS the best in MLS, that sadly is not the case

[Jack]

If that is too forgiving, let's have some more people step up to leadership roles and take the initiative on putting more pressure, as it seems they want. It's easy to rant and rail, both at the team and at other supporters, on a message board. I would love to see more pressure, but taking veiled shots at RPB or other supporters is not going to promote unity of purpose. It is very, very hard to get people on board for a negative display. I took a boatload of shit for it and so did Boris, both from within and without this group.

The initiative and the drive have to come from everyone, so the leadership have something with which they can work. There are a vocal minority who clamour for this, but it seems that a silent majority are taking a "wait and see" attitude. I know it can be frustrating, but putting down and being condescending is not a way to rally others to your cause.

You are only superior in your own mirror.

[Roogsy]

I know it can be frustrating, but putting down and being condescending is not a way to rally others to your cause.

I don't know where in the post was I putting down anyone. My posts merely stated the facts. RPB did not initiate any of the protests and merely reacted when others had already started. I was there, these are the facts.

Therefore, my opinion is that there is little reason to complain about protests when there have only been two. When we read things about how there have been too many protests, it's kind of a headscratcher.

At this point, I am not trying to rally anyone to any cause. You can only lead a horse to water, you can't make them drink. If after everything that has transpired at this club, there isn't any motivation to act, then there never will be. This isn't a "wait and see" attitude...it's already a "wait and keep waiting" decision.

For the record, I do think it's unfair that RPB leadership were blamed (credited? Depending on who you talk to) for the protests. While RPB did decide to join in on a limited basis, getting it started was more of a grassroots issue and nobody should be blamed for it.

[james]

Actually RPB did not tell anyone not to sing. That initative was taken by NEE and many RPB followed suit because we agreed.

For all the complaints on this board about "protest", I only recall 2 actual protests by supporters. The 1st was the demonstration at Gate 4 by about 100 fans and the 2nd was the green/silent protest of 2010, and yes I participated in both of them (for those who keep asking me "what do you do".)

There has never really been anything since. Despite our shockingly poor record. Which always makes me chuckle when I hear complaints about "all these protests". 2 protests in 6 years with a club that has this kind of track record is extremely forgiving.

i think when people said all these protests it was more protests that people kept talking about on the message board. When you read them it seemed like we had a protest every week. But we weren't organised enough and as you said barely any actually got done. Really as the supporter group gets smaller it is probably getting more important that we get better organised soon. A start would be if South End seats could be turned into open tickets.

[Jack]

RPB did initiate the All-Star protest. I wasn't involved in the organisation of the other, so I can't say. Either way, they are supporters protests in which people from this group participated. Supporters working together to try to improve their team. I'm not going to measure my dick about how many were started by whom. There is so much dick-measuring these days about who is what kind of supporter that it makes me tired.

[Roogsy]

i think when people said all these protests it was more protests that people kept talking about on the message board. When you read them it seemed like we had a protest every week. But we weren't organised enough and as you said barely any actually got done. Really as the supporter group gets smaller it is probably getting more important that we get better organised soon. A start would be if South End seats could be turned into open tickets.

This is true. While there have only been two actual protests, the talk of protests has been pretty extensive and continuous. I guess it could be tiring hearing about possible protests all the time, but there has to be a differentiation between the talk of protests and the actual protests themselves.

[Jack]

Indeed there is a wide chasm between Internet talk and action.

[trane]

I don't know where in the post was I putting down anyone. My posts merely stated the facts. RPB did not initiate any of the protests and merely reacted when others had already started. I was there, these are the facts.

Therefore, my opinion is that there is little reason to complain about protests when there have only been two. When we read things about how there have been too many protests, it's kind of a headscratcher.

At this point, I am not trying to rally anyone to any cause. You can only lead a horse to water, you can't make them drink. If after everything that has transpired at this club, there isn't any motivation to act, then there never will be. This isn't a "wait and see" attitude...it's already a "wait and keep waiting" decision.

For the record, I do think it's unfair that RPB leadership were blamed (credited? Depending on who you talk to) for the protests. While RPB did decide to join in on a limited basis, getting it started was more of a grassroots issue and nobody should be blamed for it.

That is because this horse drinks kool aid, not water.

[james]

well i wish i put more effort in. I sang every game and showed up every game, went to a few away games, it was fun. If there was a protest and i was there, i would join in. But i never seemed to have enough time to do any more then that between work, college and friends. And now I have been abraod for the passed 2 seasons, i should be back tho in the summer!

[maxpower]

thats awsome. Back then there group was also much smaller tho, how many people actually did that i am not sure, would be interesting to find out how true this story is, or was it just 10 guys. Even that tho takes a lot to put that much effort into it.

http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2012/0...ast-episode-2/

that's a podcast featuring a timbers supporter on all things timbers army. The part about the ladders begins around minute 12

[james]

http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2012/0...ast-episode-2/

that's a podcast featuring a timbers supporter on all things timbers army. The part about the ladders begins around minute 12

well good to here. As he said tho Timber Army have come a long way from what it was 6-7 years ago.

[Jack]

That is because this horse drinks kool aid, not water.

Zing. You are tenacious, man.

[trane]

^ Anger works for me.

[But to be honest I still have hope deep in my heart]

[Fort York Redcoat]

So much horse talk. So much whinnying.

[trane]

^ Who is whining???? Show me the fool.

[Phil]

For the protests a few years ago, it was a building of anger matched with the ticket increase. We came up with the wear green, ran it past the membership and went live with a series of articles and demonstration. The majority of the actions in the stands were based off the moment and overall were quite effective in communicating the issues. The town halls furthered a platform of discussion where the teams management heard the displeasure.

The constant talk of protesting on the board in general gives the appearance to many that its all we are about, hence those comments you read over and over.

Again, I see so many people complaining about things and so very few real suggestions about any actions. Showing our asses, although funny isnt realistic. It just wont be effective without people concentrated and commited, so its a joke. Same with throwing a jersey on the pitch. These shots at supporters groups and others while proclaiming to want to be all together is getting tired and played too.

For the first time this season we do have a bit of hope in terms of some very limited results. People want to see where this goes before jumping into the angry mode again. The anger only lasts so long. On the other hand apathy is an equal enemy.

[Phil]

^ Who is whining???? Show me the fool.

The fact you keep posting the same line over and over makes it look like you.

[trane]

^ Thanks Phil, for I did not get it for myself. How many more members are going to leave this year, under your great leadership?

[Pookie]

Back to topic.

It would be curious to see what would happen to the Timbers Army if they went through 5 seasons under MLSE-like leadership with a revolving door cast of players, coaches combined with year over year of double digit ticket price increases.

To the credit of Toronto fans and supporters, I was amazed that last Saturday's game was as full and as loud as it was despite all that we have been through since 2007.

[maxpower]

Back to topic.

It would be curious to see what would happen to the Timbers Army if they went through 5 seasons under MLSE-like leadership with a revolving door cast of players, coaches combined with year over year of double digit ticket price increases.

To the credit of Toronto fans and supporters, I was amazed that last Saturday's game was as full and as loud as it was despite all that we have been through since 2007.

The timbers have (arguably) suffered through much more then we have. keep in mind they were owned by a baseball league only a few years ago.

I was also completely amazed at how may people there were there on Saturday. probably had something to do with being the first hot game of the season

[Cashcleaner]

Actually RPB did not tell anyone not to sing. That initative was taken by NEE and many RPB followed suit because we agreed.

For all the complaints on this board about "protest", I only recall 2 actual protests by supporters. The 1st was the demonstration at Gate 4 by about 100 fans and the 2nd was the green/silent protest of 2010, and yes I participated in both of them (for those who keep asking me "what do you do".)

There has never really been anything since. Despite our shockingly poor record. Which always makes me chuckle when I hear complaints about "all these protests". 2 protests in 6 years with a club that has this kind of track record is extremely forgiving.

Really?!

I'd have to disagree. While RPB may have actually taken part in 2 official demonstrations, There has still been a lot of protests - and most importantly - a lot of TALK about protests over the last six years. That's precisely why so many people know mention that they are all "protested out".

[Kyle_121]

Back to topic.

It would be curious to see what would happen to the Timbers Army if they went through 5 seasons under MLSE-like leadership with a revolving door cast of players, coaches combined with year over year of double digit ticket price increases.

To the credit of Toronto fans and supporters, I was amazed that last Saturday's game was as full and as loud as it was despite all that we have been through since 2007.

It was within a few days of a huge win for the club. Everyone was focused on winning rather than just not losing again. I think you'll be hard pressed to see the same enthusiasm after the next miserable loss at home.

[Yohan]

stop hijacking my thread. grrrr

[Pookie]

The timbers have (arguably) suffered through much more then we have. keep in mind they were owned by a baseball league only a few years ago.

Fair enough but sustaining momentum with crowds of under 8,000 is a little easier to do, even with a challenging ownership. They are now in a packed house with interest coming from all corners of the city. With growth comes challenge and without a solid foundation (communication, structure, transparency, dispute resolution, etc) it becomes very hard for any organization... especially passionate soccer fans... to keep aligned in difficult weather.

Portland's ownership group is already coming under fire for being one of the cheaper groups in the league. It will be interesting to watch this one play out.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Back to topic.

It would be curious to see what would happen to the Timbers Army if they went through 5 seasons under MLSE-like leadership with a revolving door cast of players, coaches combined with year over year of double digit ticket price increases.

Anyone who spoke to members of other SGs of other teams in our formative years would know they said the exact thing to us. What would we look like in 5 years? Well we're here. Not even half as old as the league and there's people fading away. I see the excuses/reasons. But forever is a lot longer than 6 yrs. I'd be interested to talk to some of the older SG's to see if their membership was cyclical and people came back after they had time off to re-energize their spirits.

[Roogsy]

Really?!

I'd have to disagree. While RPB may have actually taken part in 2 official demonstrations, There has still been a lot of protests - and most importantly - a lot of TALK about protests over the last six years. That's precisely why so many people know mention that they are all "protested out".

I guess we all agree there have been 2 official protests. As for the other protests, I guess it depends on what the definition of protest is. For some, it's the boos we have heard at some games. For others it's more involved. I am not sure what other protests there have been that you are referring to, but they haven't been organized or extensive.

[Phil]

Anyone who spoke to members of other SGs of other teams in our formative years would know they said the exact thing to us. What would we look like in 5 years? Well we're here. Not even half as old as the league and there's people fading away. I see the excuses/reasons. But forever is a lot longer than 6 yrs. I'd be interested to talk to some of the older SG's to see if their membership was cyclical and people came back after they had time off to re-energize their spirits.

When DC supporters were up last time I had a good chat and they have been through a lot of the same results (not sure about ownership issues that we have though). Pretty much, they predicted what is happening with pinpoint accuracy. Supporters turning on one another, numbers going down in the stands, bickering. People return, new people come on board when things turn around. It seems very cyclical in a lot of respects.

[RedRum]

The timbers army are fantastic aren't they? They truly do everything a supporters group should. I heard one story where they had some sort of run in with their FO over tickets or something rather. Anyways, in short, the timbers army boycotted the entire season. and because this was before they had renovated there stadium, the stadium fences were small enough so all of the timbers army could watch every game from ladders outside the stadium...

A WHOLE SEASON. ON A LADDER.

U.N.I.T.Y

Simple concept, evidently quite effective.

people talked about protesting all the time against such things on the boards....but we didn't do a whole lot about it, all we did was a few small things such as North End doing some dollar sign tifo (which was the best effort on the issue) and Red Patch boys telling other fans not to sing...neither of them was enough as we should of forced these issues until they were solved or at least did some sort of display like North End did every week!

NEE did a helluva lot more than that to draw attention to all kinds of issues, the vast majority of which even people who have been around since day 1 have no clue about - trust me on that one. A small group of guys with no leaders, but a concept of putting the group ahead of what your own personal opinion might be.

U.N.I.T.Y

Simple concept, evidently quite effective.

If that is too forgiving, let's have some more people step up to leadership roles and take the initiative on putting more pressure, as it seems they want. It's easy to rant and rail, both at the team and at other supporters, on a message board. I would love to see more pressure, but taking veiled shots at RPB or other supporters is not going to promote unity of purpose. It is very, very hard to get people on board for a negative display. I took a boatload of shit for it and so did Boris, both from within and without this group.

The initiative and the drive have to come from everyone, so the leadership have something with which they can work. There are a vocal minority who clamour for this, but it seems that a silent majority are taking a "wait and see" attitude. I know it can be frustrating, but putting down and being condescending is not a way to rally others to your cause.

You are only superior in your own mirror.

This is where strong leadership becomes vital. If you are going the hierarchy route, you need leaders with the sensibility to see when the status quo is suicide and the motivation to do something about it. Don't misinterpret my words Jack, you were a great prez.

The fact you keep posting the same line over and over makes it look like you.

^ Thanks Phil, for I did not get it for myself. How many more members are going to leave this year, under your great leadership?

Phil man why not have a civilized debate with him instead of the snarky comment calling him a fool? His question is valid. The number of truly passionate guys who have either left in disillusionment or been banned outright from the RPB boards over the last 5 years makes my head spin. Year 6 and here we are lacking passion. I don't get the thought process behind that.

Anyone who spoke to members of other SGs of other teams in our formative years would know they said the exact thing to us. What would we look like in 5 years? Well we're here. Not even half as old as the league and there's people fading away. I see the excuses/reasons. But forever is a lot longer than 6 yrs. I'd be interested to talk to some of the older SG's to see if their membership was cyclical and people came back after they had time off to re-energize their spirits.

Go ask the crew who's support was garbage before they were forced to all stand together, now they are more than respectable. Go ask District Ultras how to combat stagnating support and build something. Go ask Section 8... they can give you a simple how-to guide guaranteed not to fail under the similar circumstances we are facing.