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  1. #91
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    why do you come on these boards if you are against us?

    simple question.
    if the group disappoints you, what brings you here?

    super simple and honest question.

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    What banner session? Point me to one that's been held since the league season started?

    Organize travel? I have for me and friends. Arent you guys only allowed to organize for members? Since I am not one, why would I help you, would that not violate the rules?

    Since the more "passionate" element of this group has left what has RPB done with almost 1/3 of the year done?

    And how do you know I haven't put my part in non-RPB efforts? Do you think RPB is the end-all be-all of support in Toronto?

    The only reason I am here is because this is where the most TFC/MLS discussion happens in Toronto. The day you guys no longer invite non-member users to contribute will be the day this board stops being the most active place for discussion of soccer in Toronto and there will be a large migration of users elsewhere to chat TFC, myself included. Until then, just make the rules clear, I will follow them and if you don't like what I say, prove me wrong. Pretty simple.
    Last edited by Roogsy; 06-02-2012 at 10:24 PM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluSH View Post
    I skimmed through the entire thread hoping to find strategy and plans for the future... Seems like we are still stuck on the past.
    Exactly dude... we are stuck in the past. A past that was something to be proud of, the present is shit and frankly shameful as far as support goes knowing the level we reached previously and are capable of. I know and respect you. You know - and I would like to think respect me. We are both passionate supporters. There are others as well, what we need is cohesion among them to get things back on track.

    Quote Originally Posted by FluSH View Post

    Passion moves you forward
    Hate and Anger keeps you looking back
    Fucking eh to that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
    I'd say yes, because all the members who are still here, still embody that statement.
    Cmon thats not accurate and you know it. 90 minutes? That's the exception and not the norm now especially league games.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    I don't understand why people come on here, take their personal time, to tell us what we're doing wrong.
    Either help us move forward, or get out of the way.
    Solely for the need to see support improve, get back on track, and once again become something to be proud of. The status quo has us in the death throes, in case you haven't noticed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post

    I don't come to your house/work/etc and tell you how you're coming up short.
    and if i did, sit in your living room, and talk about how you were better 2 years ago, you'd tell me to "f off".
    I have people offer me pointers and constructive criticism at work all the time. Someone belligerent or condescending of course I tell them fuck off. Someone with genuine intent I thank them for their input. Didn't you run for political office previously and lose? Would you not accept advice in the future about how you could better your campaign and become more effective in your message and ultimately succeed at your goals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post

    now a member is family, and they might offer a corrective criticism, which is expected.
    but a registered user is a guest. and if i had someone come to my place, and they started yapping about how i was cooler 5 years ago, i'd tell them to get out.

    and why would this guest take the time to come over and complain.
    they might argue that they care, but if they cared, they'd be a member, and help move forward, rather than just refer to the "good old days" which was just 3,4,5 years ago.

    If you aren't helping us move forward, you're deadweight.

    Not complaining. I am a former member, and a passionate supporter. I know pretty well all the RPB "hierarchy" being around since the middle of season 1. I'm pretty sure those that know me, know I am not some asshole hiding behind a keyboard and more importantly would confirm that any words I write on a message board I would also convey to you in a conversation at Shoes. Rob, the only time I recall meeting you is when I was asked to be a bus captain some time ago for an away game. I am sorry we are not on a more personal level, but again, I am always into sitting down for an in person conversation - absolutely. I confess I like to debate viewpoints and am a person who is proud to say when I was wrong, and someone else convinced me of the path of righteousness. It happens fairly often lol.

    In case you haven't noticed from my posts the last 2 or 3 years, I am trying to help support move forward.

  4. #94
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    And in my opinion, being in the 6th year is not a good excuse. In fact quite the opposite. Support in general has regressed when it should be better than ever, and not all of it due to the results on the pitch. But even if it was all due to the poor form of the club, seeing how it effects support, why then have SGs not been more vocal? Are the SGs not the supposed voice of the fans? If so where has that voice been as support is dwindling due to management incompetence? It's a somewhat hypocritical demand that non-affiliated supporters be asked what they do while the most influential SGs have been pretty much silent while the team suffers through incredibly damaging events.

    Taking it back to the original topic of this thread, support is miles behind support elsewhere in the league and dislike me all you want, the dissatisfaction of one ol' curmudgeon like me is hardly the reason for it. You campaigned on improving support in Toronto...the real important question is as an executive of the largest SG in Toronto, what have you done to keep your campaign promise?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    I'm sure I'll run into them in time.

    Unity IS a great thing when it endures but apparently a simple concept is not always easy to apply.
    When you run into Section 8 be sure to thank them for the instance 2 years ago when they got wind that our FO was overstepping their authority with regard to SG's and without prompting took it upon themselves to contact MLS head office and give them a heads-up as to the shenanigans.

    Long story short, MLS ripped our FO a new one, FO contacted SG's and said sorry guys we fucked up and promise not to do it again, please tell the league everything is ok now.

    LOL you can't make this shit up.

  6. #96
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    ^ Jeremy would be correct here I think.
    My thoughts here are/and will be disregared.
    But I believe, as I have said before.
    And I repeat it.
    Supporters are and always will be more important than the team.
    When you bunch begin to realize this?
    A corner may be turned.
    KD.

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    Without supporters there is no team. The problem with TFC is that the supporters act like we owe the team something when it's actually the other way around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    why do you come on these boards if you are against us?

    simple question.
    if the group disappoints you, what brings you here?

    super simple and honest question.
    because there's no other board with as many opinions being brought to the table at once.
    i know for myself and of some others that wouldn't be here if it weren't for the member count on the registered side.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by king dave View Post
    Supporters are and always will be more important than the team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Without supporters there is no team. The problem with TFC is that the supporters act like we owe the team something when it's actually the other way around.
    sorry, but this is ass-backwards.

    We are there to support the team. When supporters start thinking that they are more important than the team they support, things are wong.

    How many times in the past have people made the accusation that the supporters act like they deserve a big pat on the back for what they bring? This group has been accused of that lots of times, and now you guys are saying that's how it's supposed to be?

    Are you really saying that supporters can act like the team owes them something? Because that attitude has always been jumped on in the past. Remember the 'We deserve Better' crisis from the past? Is that now something we can proudly demand?


    jeeze... it's like people have been arguing in a big circle for so long that they forget where they started.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    I don't see any registered users stopping anyone either as individuals or as a group from moving forward. If the group isn't moving forward you only have internally to look.

    Many casual visitors to this website have stopped coming around because of what they see posted by some registered users. They want to get involved in supporting TFC with more organized effort, then take one look at the forum and think better of it. In fact, even some members have been turned off from being active because of what they see posted on this message board.

    Many people have stated in this thread that is forum is the most active place to talk about TFC (which is why they still come here) so many people form their opinions about "what it means to support TFC" based on what they see online.

    Much of what they see is posted by registered users, like yourself, so it's impossible to say that RU's don't have an influence over the way support grows for this team.
    Last edited by Parkdale; 06-03-2012 at 08:17 AM.
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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    What banner session? Point me to one that's been held since the league season started?
    There have been banner sessions since the season started.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Without supporters there is no team. The problem with TFC is that the supporters act like we owe the team something when it's actually the other way around.
    In this city I'd have to disagree with you here. Why? Because of the amount of corporate dollars and general fans. TFC could start winning and all the seats will be sold once again with or without supporters. As a supporter since day 1, they would be empty victories, much like watching Leaf wins from the platinum seats at the ACC.

    I do understand where you're coming from Roogsy and I don't think it's off in other areas where it's the supporters that generate all the atmosphere which brings in the other fans to keep the team going financially. But I do feel that this market is different than SOME other markets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    There have been banner sessions since the season started.
    Really? I looked through all the public non-member sections and found no reference to any sessions whatsoever. If there was in the member section, good for you, but that is not something anyone who is not a member can see and therefore know about and so it would be ridiculous for a member to chastise a non-member for not being there.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by bones View Post
    In this city I'd have to disagree with you here. Why? Because of the amount of corporate dollars and general fans. TFC could start winning and all the seats will be sold once again with or without supporters. As a supporter since day 1, they would be empty victories, much like watching Leaf wins from the platinum seats at the ACC.

    I do understand where you're coming from Roogsy and I don't think it's off in other areas where it's the supporters that generate all the atmosphere which brings in the other fans to keep the team going financially. But I do feel that this market is different than SOME other markets.
    When I say "there would not be a team" I was exaggerating a bit. There would be a TFC but nothing like we see before us today. The atmosphere brought by the supporters was the story for the first 3-4 years. It's what sustained this club while it fumbled about in it's own ineptitude. It's what people came to see. It certainly wasn't the losing team on the pitch with all the drama and infighting.

    If the atmosphere wasn't there, the stadium would not have been sold out for 4 years and we wouldn't have a shiny new training facility, 3 DPs and maybe even grass (although that one might be debateable). That's what I meant. MLSE brought a team here without knowing they'd have this much success. But the additional investment has been because of the kind of support they have seen fans give this club. If that support had not been there, further investment would not have been made.

    At the end of the day, support for this club has sagged in a significant way. And whatever the reason for it, action should be taken. If there is no action taken, then we're all just watching it like a slow car crash and the responsiblity for it is shared.

    Again, taking it back to the original thread topic, we are so far away from what support has become in other MLS markets that it's almost embarrassing. And the chasm is growing. Complaining that someone is pointing it out is unproductive and basically shooting the messenger.
    Last edited by Roogsy; 06-03-2012 at 09:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
    sorry, but this is ass-backwards.

    We are there to support the team. When supporters start thinking that they are more important than the team they support, things are wong.

    How many times in the past have people made the accusation that the supporters act like they deserve a big pat on the back for what they bring? This group has been accused of that lots of times, and now you guys are saying that's how it's supposed to be?

    Are you really saying that supporters can act like the team owes them something? Because that attitude has always been jumped on in the past. Remember the 'We deserve Better' crisis from the past? Is that now something we can proudly demand?


    jeeze... it's like people have been arguing in a big circle for so long that they forget where they started.

    You are confusing being self-indulgent (which is what the "we deseve better" banner was) and recognition of reality. The reality is that without the fans, there is no club. That's why the supporters are more important than the team. But that doesn't mean you behave like self-indulgent children when you're upset. Measured and appropriate responses to certain situations remind team management that they would not be here without us and need to stop taking fans and supporters for granted. And if they recognize that and correct their ways, things can go back to more productive efforts.

    But it doesn't change the reality that the team exists FOR us, not the other way around and that's why the somewhat clichéd but still true statement that "without supporters there is no team" is something I believe.

    And I think you are mischaracterizing the events that surround the "we deserve better" event. That banner was surprised on us during a march that had a different purpose. That's why people got upset, at least in my case. I didn't necessarily want to be associated with a banner that I did not have a voice in saying. But the sentiment wasn't wrong. Fans did deserve better.

  16. #106
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    And Parky, if people don't support this club because of what I or someone else says on an internet board, I'd question their level of dedication to begin with. What I say doesn't impact game day. I stay away from this group by no longer going to Shoeless, giving up my tickets in 112 and not interfering with whatever events you guys put together. That's your business. If people don't come to those things that has nothing to do with Roogsy. If you can't get people to participate at that level, don't be blaming Roogsy, that's just weak and crediting me with way too much influence. It's basically scapegoating and ignoring the real problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Again, taking it back to the original thread topic, .
    yeah lets, abe from the timbers give me reasons for bromance. screw you phonzo, abe is a better bromancer outside of game day!
    it's a totally different feeling sitting in jeld wen. pretty sure there's a video out there stating i'd given a few inches on a certain accoutrament to have even half of what the timbers have.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRum View Post
    When you run into Section 8 be sure to thank them for the instance 2 years ago when they got wind that our FO was overstepping their authority with regard to SG's and without prompting took it upon themselves to contact MLS head office and give them a heads-up as to the shenanigans.

    Long story short, MLS ripped our FO a new one, FO contacted SG's and said sorry guys we fucked up and promise not to do it again, please tell the league everything is ok now.

    LOL you can't make this shit up.
    Huh? This is the first I've heard of this. Not surprising really. I believe you but wonder why this was never mentioned before from anyone.

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    And Parky, if people don't support this club because of what I or someone else says on an internet board, I'd question their level of dedication to begin with. What I say doesn't impact game day. I stay away from this group by no longer going to Shoeless, giving up my tickets in 112 and not interfering with whatever events you guys put together. That's your business. If people don't come to those things that has nothing to do with Roogsy. If you can't get people to participate at that level, don't be blaming Roogsy, that's just weak and crediting me with way too much influence. It's basically scapegoating and ignoring the real problems.
    A negative experience in their interaction with other supporters would certainly have an impact on someone's willingness to cooperate with other supporters on game day, wouldn't you think? Why should I join in with what someone is doing if they were a dick to me, whether in person or virtually?
    Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy

  20. #110
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    Roogs,
    the jist of what a lot of us are saying is, please tone down the negativity towards the RPB.
    you are a registered user, so you are a guest.
    we (the RPB) value the contributions of all supporters, but enough is enough when it's always negative about the group.

    Look at your post count, and look at the negative spin and indirect sniping your bring.
    essentially, you're spamming negativity on our message board.

    And there is a lot of proof/evidence that it is turning people off of the message board.
    I am not going to share the PMs or the names of people that have said they come here less because you're barraging the message board with your negative spin.

    You mentioned a few posts back that you're supporting through non-RPB means, how about focusing more on that, tell us about that, and being a little more positive.
    Or at least tone down the "glory days" or "wasted potential" talk...it was just 2,3,4,5 years ago.

    if you're going to give a criticism, how about also provide a possible solution??

    Summing it up, please stop being a Negative Nelly on our Message Board.
    you are an extremely bright individual, you know what you're doing.
    Last edited by Wagner; 06-03-2012 at 10:17 AM.

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    Not sure where to start with this because as with your previous posts you're all over the place and ask many questions. Interestingly, you answer none yourself.

    Regardless this thread naturally compares all SGs in MLS and asks the question "where does Toronto stand?". If you don't like the answer, blaming a scapegoat won't fix the problem.

  22. #112
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    I don't see where anyone is blaming a scapegoat. His request is pretty clear and independent of the subject matter of the thread. If you feel like you are being scapegoated, perhaps ask yourself why. From where I'm sitting, it looks like he's asked you to tone down your negative rhetoric.

    The fact that there is a strongly negative element amongst the TFC support, a very divisive element who would rather criticize and divide than provide positive ideas and work together, is plainly evident. When people decide to move beyond that and really work together on things, we will be on the right track. Right now, there is not much to move our excitement forward, neither on the field nor in the front office. It's hard to get your passion up for singing and chanting when you feel taken advantage of by the suits. This means we should dig deep, do it for each other and unite, rather than take shots, go our own way in bitterness and divide.

    Division amongst the support only helps the suits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Without supporters there is no team. The problem with TFC is that the supporters act like we owe the team something when it's actually the other way around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    When I say "there would not be a team" I was exaggerating a bit. There would be a TFC but nothing like we see before us today. The atmosphere brought by the supporters was the story for the first 3-4 years. It's what sustained this club while it fumbled about in it's own ineptitude. It's what people came to see. It certainly wasn't the losing team on the pitch with all the drama and infighting.

    If the atmosphere wasn't there, the stadium would not have been sold out for 4 years and we wouldn't have a shiny new training facility, 3 DPs and maybe even grass (although that one might be debateable). That's what I meant. MLSE brought a team here without knowing they'd have this much success. But the additional investment has been because of the kind of support they have seen fans give this club. If that support had not been there, further investment would not have been made.

    At the end of the day, support for this club has sagged in a significant way. And whatever the reason for it, action should be taken. If there is no action taken, then we're all just watching it like a slow car crash and the responsiblity for it is shared.

    Again, taking it back to the original thread topic, we are so far away from what support has become in other MLS markets that it's almost embarrassing. And the chasm is growing. Complaining that someone is pointing it out is unproductive and basically shooting the messenger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    You are confusing being self-indulgent (which is what the "we deseve better" banner was) and recognition of reality. The reality is that without the fans, there is no club. That's why the supporters are more important than the team. But that doesn't mean you behave like self-indulgent children when you're upset. Measured and appropriate responses to certain situations remind team management that they would not be here without us and need to stop taking fans and supporters for granted. And if they recognize that and correct their ways, things can go back to more productive efforts.

    But it doesn't change the reality that the team exists FOR us, not the other way around and that's why the somewhat clichéd but still true statement that "without supporters there is no team" is something I believe.

    And I think you are mischaracterizing the events that surround the "we deserve better" event. That banner was surprised on us during a march that had a different purpose. That's why people got upset, at least in my case. I didn't necessarily want to be associated with a banner that I did not have a voice in saying. But the sentiment wasn't wrong. Fans did deserve better.
    Are you ever get tired of moving the goal posts?
    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


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    Quote Originally Posted by AL-MO View Post
    Not necessarily the case. Go look at the thread I posted a few years ago called "Ultras Report 2009" (i think?). Its posted in the members section.

    Its about a Russian Ultras group, and they have the exact same problems as RPB did/does. And part of their annual activities is charity. Some people thought it was an interesting read, others chose to criticize and say things like "We're not like them" (which made me laugh at the time, and still does).

    Someone with access should bump it.
    interesting.......:http://fratria.org/english/fratria_resume_2009/

    surprise so many flares...lol....Almo who knew?
    Last edited by jazzy; 06-03-2012 at 11:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluSH View Post
    I skimmed through the entire thread hoping to find strategy and plans for the future... Seems like we are still stuck on the past.

    Passion moves you forward

    Hate and Anger keeps you looking back
    well said
    ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana

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    Has nothing to do with flares. Just a good account of what groups go through.

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    it's a JOKE..pity....I WAS enjoying the passion in ALL the voices, for a change... thanx for stating the obvious
    Last edited by jazzy; 06-03-2012 at 11:47 AM.
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    As a guest I would say my opinions and suggestions will always be ignored. Until people on this board are more willing to embrace the masses all around them, and step outside the conventional footie supporter box, the scope of ideas will be extremely limited.. I for one am just bored with going through the motions and singing the same songs as every other MLS team (Maple Leaf Forever anyone? Anyone?......Beuler?) I am very loud regarding the game itself, as are many at BMO. This does not make me less of a supporter or for a bad environment. Change your expectations, or change how you want to accomplish your goals. I'm tired of reading about the constant disappointment in fellow supporters or the atmosphere at BMO. Talk of making this board for members only will be the end of relevance for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Is it not ironic that one of the clubs with the worst history of helping supporter culture (the Whitecaps) are putting out videos about supporters? That's jokes man.

    SOBs was a good place to start though. Good on them.

    I can't wait for the Toronto episode to come out. Such promise wasted...


    This is the most painful thing... I don't think anyone doubts that if it was nurtured instead of nuetered, we could have what Seattle and Portland have as far as supporters culture goes.

    It is dying a slow death though if things don't change to support the supporters groups and this type of atmosphere. It really separates soccer/football from the other sports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigredone View Post
    The Ultras are entertaining. Thanks for posting. Do you think the coverage of TFC's will be fair? I figure they are pretty bitter.

    If they use footage from this year, which at any given point is weak, then no. Also, if they don't focus on what was vs what is, definitely not. I mean our away support in Columbus was probably the pinnacle simply because we were all able to be in one section together which we aren't able to do in our own stadium. (plus they were the early and passionate years before the bitterness towards the ownership)

 

 

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