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  1. #31
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    LOL... I guess someone didn't like my post saying "all this is just shuffling of the deck chairs on the Titanic" as it seems to have disappeared in the move...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wooster_TFC View Post
    I don't know how this points to Winter being a dead man walking. It seems more of a statement to the fact that they felt their international scouting sucked, and that the coaches themselves needed more training. So, DeKlerk moves to training the trainers, and international scouting.

    That said, it wouldn't surprise me if his short temper on the field had something to do with this.
    It certainly is an interesting development. I lean more towards your line of thinking Wosster_TFC. It's probably a little bit of everything that has been mentioned here and a chance for management to cover all bases depending on what transpires over the next couple of weeks. It may also be an admission that Winter needs help preparing the squad for MLS league play. Perhaps it's an attempt to delegate duties? If TFC win the Canadian Championship and manage another deep run in the CCL, the coach won't have to divide his attention between CCL and MLS. It might just be a way to relieve the pressure on management for the time being, or it could be a unique way to split the responsibilities for a heavy schedule and keep what works well in cup play while addressing deficiencies in league play.

  3. #33
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    Jimmy B never struck me as a coach. Don't see how this is going to help really.

    Or is this more of a shot from the FO's bow saying "we got our eye on you" to Winter?

  4. #34
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    Hopefully Jimmy can tell them how he 'scored that goal'.

    They need to know.

  5. #35
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    Quite clearly this was forced by De Klerk's actions after the Impact match plus his history of freak outs and ejections. Nothing else really.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Hard to know what to make of this but I can't shake the feeling this is an MLSE cop out designed to not have to make the really hard decision.
    This is certainly possible. It could be that current management has not been charged with making any drastic changes by the new ownership, so they are preparing for the worst case scenario. I think the ACC final against Vancouver just became that much more important.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    I dunno what to make of Jimmy B now assistant.
    -Why take away Winter's chosen right hand guy, and replace it with MLSE's favoured son?
    -Does it now mean MLS pragmatic side has won?
    -Is now Winter just a figure head?
    In the murky world of ML$E politics, I read it as the pragmatic side getting more of a say. I also see it as people getting more aligned with their skill set.
    BDK will be better at international scouting (which has majorly sucked). He's also dangerous to have at the field level. Danny really wants to work with the kids, so it makes sense to give Jimmy B. the promotion.
    Mariner adding coaching is acknowledgement that Winter needs help. I don't read it as Winter being replaced... yet. If the changes work, he'll be staying. Think of how JFJ had people brought in to help him learn how to be a GM. This is similar for Winter. If it doesn't work, like JFJ he'll eventually be turfed. Think longer term than this season, though, that's what this indicates to me.

  8. #38
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    Allow me to remind everyone of Anselmi's famous promise of getting the "best front office in MLS".

    18 months later and this is what they have come up with.

    I have no words.

  9. #39
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    ^ I tend to agree. This sounds like BS.

  10. #40
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    This move definitely isolates Winter. Bring in Jimmy for "support" and get Mariner on the training field. Remove his 2nd in command.

    Sounds like double secret probation to me...
    Toronto 'til I die although still a Leeds fan at heart...


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Allow me to remind everyone of Anselmi's famous promise of getting the "best front office in MLS".

    18 months later and this is what they have come up with.

    I have no words.
    Here's the ML$E printing press all ready for Anselmi's promises:


  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Think longer term than this season, though, that's what this indicates to me.
    I tend to agree. That's why I think the most intriguing part of this shift is the apparent switch of roles between De Klerk and Mariner:

    In this new role de Klerk will be responsible for Toronto FC’s technical program, including advance and international scouting, as well as serving as the technical conduit between the First Team and Academy program. He will also assist players transitioning from the Academy into the First Team and support the education of Toronto FC coaches at all levels.
    http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/05...office-changes

    I think the quote above is an indication of an extension of the philosophy of Winter's management team. Finding talent and ensuring the proper training and successful transition of Academy players to a higher level is very important. It's a big responsibility. Conversely, Mariner will now be taking more responsibility for performances in league play. He'll have to prove how valuable his MLS experience is in the area where TFC has had the least success.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Here's the ML$E printing press all ready for Anselmi's promises:

    I wouldn't too quick to flush these changes down the toilet, personally.

    A lot of fans wanted change - and this is a start. It's definitely better than doing nothing. I can praise Anselmi for that.

    What NONE of us know is how much influence De Klerk had on the first team, and hence on the recults so far this season. We are assuming that everything is Winter's doing - but it might not be the case. De Klerk might have had much more influence than we think. So, removing him from first team duty could make a big difference.

    Look at how much Chelsea changed after Ray Wilkins was removed from his position. An assistant head coach CAN have a massive influence on the first team.

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    And as the Titanic sank ever so slowly into the icy waters, the chairs were shuffled about, for no discernible purpose other than the sake of change.

    These are still the same people running the same team. Nothing has changed.

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    I'm not sure what this is supposed to accomplish, it strikes me as nothing more than odd.

    Nothing about BDK suggests to me that we're going to have any more luck in the scouting department. They should quit fucking around and actually hire someone with a south American network we can utilize. It's incredibly obvious that's what we need.

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    Something is going to happen. They are lining everything up for a change. These types of changes don't happen mid season for the sake of happening or to get people in a position where they can use their skill sets more effectively.

    I think Winter has 1 more loss left on his term here and I don't think the team thinks it's avoidable.
    I just wonder who is coming in to take over with Jimmy B and Paul Mariner as First team assistants.

    I like BDK - I hope he stays with the organization in the long run. He is very smart soccer guy and I think he'll be good for the academy. He's a bit of hard ass, but I think that younger kids will be able to learn a lot from him and gain the discipline needed to play on a first team.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Allow me to remind everyone of Anselmi's famous promise of getting the "best front office in MLS".

    18 months later and this is what they have come up with.

    I have no words.
    Well I also remember him at the first townhall meeting going around with his six-shooter telling everyone "we're going to f cking fix this!!"

    In fairness he didn't say when!

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-boy View Post

    What NONE of us know is how much influence De Klerk had on the first team, and hence on the recults so far this season. We are assuming that everything is Winter's doing - but it might not be the case. De Klerk might have had much more influence than we think. So, removing him from first team duty could make a big difference.
    That's a good point, one I can agree with, (although Winter is responsible for BDK being on staff). Looking at his temper, he couldn't have been a pleasant guy for the First Team players to be working with.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerRed View Post
    And as the Titanic sank ever so slowly into the icy waters, the chairs were shuffled about, for no discernible purpose other than the sake of change.

    These are still the same people running the same team. Nothing has changed.
    I think the changes deserve SOME credit, don't they?

    I'm no fan of Aron Winter, but we need to see how changing assistant coach makes a difference - and it squit possible it could make a BIG difference. If De Klerk wasn't respected at all by the players, and now we have Brennan, who by all accounts IS popular with the players - it could make a huge impact on how the players react to management.

  20. #50
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    "That's a good point, one I can agree with, (although Winter is responsible for BDK being on staff). Looking at his temper, he couldn't have been a pleasant guy for the First Team players to be working with."

    ^ Also seemed that when he was fired up, the team was fired up though.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Something is going to happen. They are lining everything up for a change. These types of changes don't happen mid season for the sake of happening or to get people in a position where they can use their skill sets more effectively.

    I think Winter has 1 more loss left on his term here and I don't think the team thinks it's avoidable.
    I just wonder who is coming in to take over with Jimmy B and Paul Mariner as First team assistants.

    I like BDK - I hope he stays with the organization in the long run. He is very smart soccer guy and I think he'll be good for the academy. He's a bit of hard ass, but I think that younger kids will be able to learn a lot from him and gain the discipline needed to play on a first team.
    Or he will scare the sh!t out of them!

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Something is going to happen. They are lining everything up for a change. These types of changes don't happen mid season for the sake of happening or to get people in a position where they can use their skill sets more effectively.
    If they do go for a change, it looks like Mariner as coach with Jimmy B. as assistant. BDK keeping the academy Dutch-flavoured.

    0-8 is why they brought this in. I won't be writing Winter's obituary yet. Anselmi's not a guy to rush things.

    Could be that when (if?) Vancouver knocks TFC out of CCL contention, that will force Tom's hand, though.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 05-14-2012 at 01:43 PM.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    It was also clear from that that he can't explain it. In English anyway.

    Hard to know what to make of this but I can't shake the feeling this is an MLSE cop out designed to not have to make the really hard decision.
    If by "make hard decisions," you mean, "spend any money," then I think you're right. The rest of this year may very well be shuffling the deck to try and win some league games. But as long as these guys are inder contract it's unlikely they'll be spending any more money on new staff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    "That's a good point, one I can agree with, (although Winter is responsible for BDK being on staff). Looking at his temper, he couldn't have been a pleasant guy for the First Team players to be working with."

    ^ Also seemed that when he was fired up, the team was fired up though.
    I'm not sure actually. It seemed to be that when the team was fired up, they fired up De Klerk. It's not necessarily the other way around.

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    So now if it continues, Mariner is fully implicated in it, and possibly Brennan as well. If I were Brennan, I'd want to be making damn sure I'm not being set up for something.

    This whole thing smells. They're putting off the hard decision by trying to say they've done something. Better to rip the band-aid right off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-boy View Post
    I'm not sure actually. It seemed to be that when the team was fired up, they fired up De Klerk. It's not necessarily the other way around.
    Yeah maybe. If only BDK knew this was coming. I'm sure he would have pulled a Joey Barton and tried to take people with him. Who wouldn't want to see Jesse Marsch punched in the face?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Something is going to happen. They are lining everything up for a change. These types of changes don't happen mid season for the sake of happening or to get people in a position where they can use their skill sets more effectively.

    I think Winter has 1 more loss left on his term here and I don't think the team thinks it's avoidable.
    I just wonder who is coming in to take over with Jimmy B and Paul Mariner as First team assistants.

    I like BDK - I hope he stays with the organization in the long run. He is very smart soccer guy and I think he'll be good for the academy. He's a bit of hard ass, but I think that younger kids will be able to learn a lot from him and gain the discipline needed to play on a first team.
    Let me be the first to speculate that Steve Nicol may have just installed his preferred assistant coaches before officially taking over the team.

  28. #58
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    One theory - maybe the players weren't comfortable with BDK's style of coaching and that is part of the funk. Could be an outcome of the clear the air meeting. Jimmy B as a former TFC player might have a different vibe. I'm just not sure how much technical knowledge he has to impart to senior players.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooterTFC View Post
    Let me be the first to speculate that Steve Nicol may have just installed his preferred assistant coaches before officially taking over the team.
    Maybe... but no indication Nicol is involved (yet). They could equally make Mariner coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC View Post
    One theory - maybe the players weren't comfortable with BDK's style of coaching and that is part of the funk. Could be an outcome of the clear the air meeting. Jimmy B as a former TFC player might have a different vibe. I'm just not sure how much technical knowledge he has to impart to senior players.
    Another possibility.

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooterTFC View Post
    Let me be the first to speculate that Steve Nicol may have just installed his preferred assistant coaches before officially taking over the team.
    My thoughts exactly.

    what was the setup in New England when it came to player scouting? Was Mariners current position even there? or was it his job to assist and scout?

 

 

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