Pregame/In game: 16 May, TFC @ Vancouver (Voyageurs Cup Final 1st leg)

[Yohan]

Vancouver looking for a little payback from last year.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/...canadian-final

[Roogsy]

Well...it makes for a great storyline!

#drama

Head coach Martin Rennie upped the ante as well, deadpanning a sarcastic response to Toronto FC head coach Aron Winter’s recent assertion that TFC is the best club in the country.
“For us, the final is a game we’re excited about,” Rennie said. “As Aron Winter said, Toronto are better than Vancouver and Montreal. We know going in we’re the underdogs and I think that suits us. We’re a team starting off at the bottom, scraping our way up to the top and it’s more pressure on the best team.

Well done Winter. Man...he just doesn't get it. This guy shouldn't be in charge of an ice cream truck.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Well done Winter. Man...he just doesn't get it. This guy shouldn't be in charge of an ice cream truck.

I don't know..."Winter's Ice Cream" sounds pretty refreshing on a hot day.

[ryan]

God damn Winter for not being afraid of being publicly confident, when did that get anyone anywhere. I fully demand Winter's head if he doesn't come out and start telling the media "we're piss, Vancouver is better, we don't deserve to be on the field with them" then the players are surely to believe!

[Carts]

I don't mind Winter's confident proclamation here...

Normally I hate giving teams 'dressing room wall' material, but in this case maybe the team needs the swagger and some hop in their step...

If Winter had said "...we're having a tough season, and Vancouver is an excellent club that will want to...." that would just play right into this 0-8 nightmare of a start...

Maybe they're pulling a George Costanza & doing the opposite of what is expected...?

Bottom line, the result of this aggregate final will determine if this was a good move / bad move...

Like I said, normally I don't like saying things like this, and giving teams something to play for - but maybe, Winter is trying to give our lads something to play for with these comments...

Go get'em Boys!
Carts...

[Canary10]

^ Well we just had a month of SAF and Roberto Mancini going to pains to say the other team was the favourite to win the EPL. There's some strategy in that.

[ryan]

Is there any statistical data to support what a manager says to how the team responds? Or this is all opinion driven by whatever media we come across?

I don't think it holds much if any value TBH. Perhaps if a manager came out and said something totally offside, perhaps that might weigh on a players mind, but typical banter is repeated so often I don't think it matters.

He said we were better than Montreal, the haters scoffed, we beat them. So?

[Roogsy]

Is there any statistical data to support what a manager says to how the team responds? Or this is all opinion driven by whatever media we come across?

I don't think it holds much if any value TBH. Perhaps if a manager came out and said something totally offside, perhaps that might weigh on a players mind, but typical banter is repeated so often I don't think it matters.

He said we were better than Montreal, the haters scoffed, we beat them. So?

Motivation in sports is a huge thing. It's not quantifiable but all you have too look at is DeRo's 3 goal game against TFC last year with a man down to observe the kind of impact it has on games.

[ryan]

Motivation in sports is a huge thing. It's not quantifiable but all you have too look at is DeRo's 3 goal game against TFC last year with a man down to observe the kind of impact it has on games.

Cause what is said to the media is what is said to them during practice/meetings/etc? No.



DeRo was self motivated and I'm not denying it exists. It's not even a comparison here though because his motivation had nothing to do with what his manager had to say that day.

[Carts]

Motivation in sports is a huge thing. It's not quantifiable but all you have too look at is DeRo's 3 goal game against TFC last year with a man down to observe the kind of impact it has on games.

I agree 100% - motivation, something to play for, personal reasons, etc etc etc is huge in sports...

Now, is there any stats data that can prove "this works / this doesn't" - no...

Working / Coaching in hockey, I always wanted to stay away from 'dressing room wall' material - kept everything said to local paper/tv very down the middle and 'polite' (for lack of a better word)...

Its just, right now, at 0-8 in MLS play, pumping Vancouver & talking about being underdogs or etc might play into the burden of that record - I don't mind the idea of going in opposite direction and saying "we're a better team, and we'll go out there and prove it" type of thing...

It could backfire, and could backfire huge! Or it could work & be genious... The result will be the result, and whether this or that had anything to do with it will be opinion and opinion alone really...

Hey, at least we're in the fight...!
Carts...

[Roogsy]

Cause what is said to the media is what is said to them during practice/meetings/etc? No.



DeRo was self motivated and I'm not denying it exists. It's not even a comparison here though because his motivation had nothing to do with what his manager had to say that day.

Ask guys who have been in those rooms as to whether coaches use words spoken in the media are used to motivate the players.

Yeah DeRo had something to prove. That was his motivation. Whether it came from the coach is irrelevant. The method of communication of the motivation doesn't matter, it's whether it actually causes motivation that can influence a performance that matters.

If I am a player and I hear that a coach on the other team has spoken poorly of me, it doesn't matter if I read it myself, hear it on the radio, am told by my coach or my wife tells me at dinner, either one of those methods is going to cause a similar reaction. And if you don't think Rennie is going to use it to movitate his team, you're fooling yourself. He has obviously noticed the comments by making a sarcastic remark about them. I will bet you a box of donuts he's also talking about it in the lockerroom and using it to motivate his club.

History is full of examples of teams that found the courage to beat another team based on unecessary motivation provided by other teams. Just look at the latest Stanley Cup playoffs to see the kind of performance Philly has given against the more talented Pens to see what motivation does to a team.

It is commonly accepted in sports that you don't poke a sleeping lion. And he's gone and done exactly that. Unecessarily so. And yet you dismiss it as if it has no effect whatsoever. I would guess most people disagree with you.

[Richard]

Wow so what do you guys want? Him cut off his balls and submit to being a shit team to display no confidence, might as well ask Vancouver to gag and rape TFC.

[trane]

^ How about he says nothing and shows Canada is the best team, by winnig more then one game?????


That is how it useally works in Football. You win more games then the other teams in the country, and you are declared the best team in the country.

[starter]

I do not think Whitecaps can even see us from the top of the table, so the noises we make are not exactly disturbing the 'sleeping lion'.
Winter is challenging his team to perform to its' potential, that is for sure.

[trane]

I am the best Center Back in Canada.

[Canary10]

I am the best Center Back in Canada.

Eff you! You're crap, I'm gonna nutmeg you ten times over...

Oh, I get it.

[Roogsy]

I am the best Center Back in Canada.

I'll do you one better:

I am the most loved Registered User on the RPB forum.

[Canary10]

I'll do you one better:

I am the most loved Registered User on the RPB forum.

Eff you!! You're the most obnoxious twit I've ever read on this forum...>!

Oh. Why do I keep walking into these things?

[Initial B]

I am the best Center Back in Canada.

Prove it!

[trane]

I'll do you one better:

I am the most loved Registered User on the RPB forum.

And I am in third, right after Exiled Red.


As for proving that I am the best CB in Canada. I do not need too. I said it, therefore it is.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'll do you one better:

I am the most loved Registered User on the RPB forum.

Eff you!! You're the most obnoxious twit I've ever read on this forum...>!

Oh. Why do I keep walking into these things?

Um Roogs you could probably lose the icon if you went by reputation points!!


And do me a favour and say you're friends before people report Canary's post.

[Fort York Redcoat]

And I am in third, right after Exiled Red.


As for proving that I am the best CB in Canada. I do not need too. I said it, therefore it is.

3rd? That would make you the enforcer. Goes with being a CB, no?

[tfcleeds]

In some ways, Winter is right. We are the better team when it comes to the Canadian Championship, in that Vancouver have yet to win the prize. They want it so badly - the pressure is all on them.

[trane]

3rd? That would make you the enforcer. Goes with being a CB, no?

That I am. Sadly, even at 42, I act like a 19 year old goon on the pitch.

[ryan]

Ask guys who have been in those rooms as to whether coaches use words spoken in the media are used to motivate the players.

Is there a statistical data to backup a coach saying "my team is better than the other team" you have? Otherwise, cool story bro.

Yeah DeRo had something to prove. That was his motivation. Whether it came from the coach is irrelevant.

The topic at hand is a coach stating his team is good to the media, DeRo's self motivation (and your love affair to inject him into this conversation) is what's irrelevant. The coach's comments to the media is what we are discussing, so lets stay on point here.

The method of communication of the motivation doesn't matter, it's whether it actually causes motivation that can influence a performance that matters.

We're talking about what the manager says to the media, so the method does matter because that's the bloody conversation.

If I am a player and I hear that a coach on the other team has spoken poorly of me, it doesn't matter if I read it myself, hear it on the radio, am told by my coach or my wife tells me at dinner, either one of those methods is going to cause a similar reaction.

But the coach is speaking highly of the team, so this means alot.

And if you don't think Rennie is going to use it to movitate his team, you're fooling yourself. He has obviously noticed the comments by making a sarcastic remark about them. I will bet you a box of donuts he's also talking about it in the lockerroom and using it to motivate his club.

If losing to us last year, the miracle in Montreal and flat out dislike between cities is not enough? Rennie really needs this? Please, there's enough motivation, adding to it isn't going to give them some magical edge or provide motivation because it's lacking. Any fool can tell you Vancouver was motivated without a comment.

History is full of examples of teams that found the courage to beat another team based on unecessary motivation provided by other teams. Just look at the latest Stanley Cup playoffs to see the kind of performance Philly has given against the more talented Pens to see what motivation does to a team.

History also has examples of teams who found the balls to stay "we're going to win" and then did so. Pretty cool eh?

It is commonly accepted in sports that you don't poke a sleeping lion. And he's gone and done exactly that.

So when he (and players) did so against Montreal, that surely woke them up to the tune of 0 goals in 180 minutes. Totally on to something here.

And yet you dismiss it as if it has no effect whatsoever. I would guess most people disagree with you.

You give it too much credit, as if it's proven fact. Choose to ignore one side of the happenings and buy into the other, much like you do with "we're lucky when we win" and "not unlucky when we lose". lolz.

[Oldtimer]

3rd? That would make you the enforcer. Goes with being a CB, no?

That makes you a CB because you're an "enforcer." You "enforce" the board rules.

[Oldtimer]

In some ways, Winter is right. We are the better team when it comes to the Canadian Championship, in that Vancouver have yet to win the prize. They want it so badly - the pressure is all on them.

Results are what matters, in the end. Whether it's "luck" or not. As Gyula Grosics once said:

"Victory needs no explanation. There is no explanation for defeat."

You can talk about all kinds of factors, and in the short-run that's OK, but in the long run winning is what matters (Fair Play fits in their somewhere, but it's kind of murkey in my mind ).

[TOBOR !]

Meh. I take no issue with Winter's declaration.

Whichever way you look at it Vancouver will be confident of their chances as I'm sure Montreal were.

They don't believe they are underdogs.

[Jack]

He said we were better than Montreal, the haters scoffed, we beat them. So?

See my sig.

[trane]

Is there a statistical data to backup a coach saying "my team is better than the other team" you have? Otherwise, cool story bro.

How about this stat to show that we are not the best team in Canada; 0-8. How is that for stats bro? I forget that in the TFC football world winning does not matter.