The linesman didn't call anything did he? From where I was it didn't look like it.Originally Posted by Auzzy
If he deliberately came down in a stomp he could win a foul while getting red carded on the same play. I can't say I can see that in the replays on the game in 6, but some of the media people who had access to other angles said it looked like he came down on him deliberately.
Funny, but the way I see it, is that it is a shame that with a side that is this good we are 0-8. We did not scrap a squad together, this is our squad, with a few people missing, and we did great. SO WHY ARE WE 0-8?
We have a good players, they fight for each other, and they get wins when they are needed. And yet we are 0-8. We are letting an opportunity go to waste.
yeah I know. but the replay will likely focus on whether there was stomping motion on Ecks part, not just how retarded Gantar is (that guy makes Toledo looks mild mannered by comparison)
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
The only way the ref could have given Ecks a red in this incident is if the ref thought that there was a foul ON Ecks, then Ecks retaliated and stamped on the Montreal player. BUT, that wasn't the case - the foul was given for the challenge which actually Ecks got the card for. It didn't make any sense.
I assume that the ref "thought" Ecks made the mark on the Montreal players leg AFTER the original incident had happened. Otherwise, why would Ecks be sent off AND win the free kick?
It was a baffeling piece of refereeing!
^ That's what it was the ref thought that Ecks, stomped on the foot of the Montreal player, after the tackle. The Montreal player showed the ref the mark, and then ecks was carded.
Not a Winter fan myself, but that's pretty hefty reading between the lines to say a mutiny was brewing. It could be true, but another possible interpretation is that Winter realized that the hard-line "system" wasn't winning now (or more likely Anselmi told him to smarten up and get some wins now), so he asked the players for their input. Winter hasn't shown great man-management so far, it's clear he doesn't instinctively know what to do, and he's trying to learn on the job. Like Roogsy has pointed out before, ML$E has poured money into DPs and the academy, but hired a rookie coach. We deserved more.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 05-10-2012 at 01:45 PM.
Where are people getting that he didn't "play the system." He was finally back on the system last night after a few games trying to play negative football. What do you think Jonhson was criticizing him for? Certainly not for playing attacking football. He was criticizing the five man backline we played against Montreal and again against DC United (even DeRo got in on it too, wondering where the vaunted TFC 4-3-3 had gone). I'm sure the team meeting was the players saying why the hell are we playing this kind of football. Have faith in your system and play it. If you're going to get fired, you might as well go out playing your game, not Preki's.
^ What in the 8 league games makes you think that the players have faith in the system played by Winter?
"Marsch attempting to bypass De Klerk to shake Winters' hand post game was pure lulz. When the coaching staff gets fired I want BDK to stay on as waterboy."
Is that what got De Klerk so fired up?
Still too busy....
scanned the thread a bit..
Are people really calling craiger out as a poor supporter? Are you fucking serious?
All I know is the Johnson reamed Winter out in the media for playing a 5 man back line the past two games instead of throwing it forward. Then last night they were back into Winter's preferred 4-3-3, playing higher up the pitch, and attacking (precisely what the 4-3-3 ought to be doing) and not playing a 5 man back line. How is that not back to playing Winter's system, after two games in a row where we clearly did not play 4-3-3?
This was the headline on the MLS site today (I added the bolding for effect):
Toronto FC pleased with return to attacking soccer
Last edited by Canary10; 05-10-2012 at 02:21 PM.
Craiger is one of the biggest supports going. He is also one of the most fun people in 112 and over the years has come up with some pretty funny ideas for banners and actually made them himself. His contributions outweigh most people posting here. I don't know of many people on this board that actually do that or have people into their homes to do it either. The people who have said something negative about him, I don't even know who they are, other than posting on this board.
That is not what I asked. I asked what in the first 8 MLS games shows you that they have faith in Winter's system? ( Johnson was critical that Toronto played to defensively at home-nothing more nothing less)
systems are more complicated then a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, there are hundred of variations of each, and every team plays it their own way.
"precisely" what a 4-3-3 should be doing??? Really? You do no that one of the best defensive teams in the past several years, the CL winning Inter, played a 4-3-3. A 4-3-3 does what the club, decides what it wants it to do, it is a very flexible system, and used widely around Europe. That is why I was not against its introduction, its flexibility. But a poorly played anything, produces poor results.
Maybe you are right. But things are not so simple.
Last edited by trane; 05-10-2012 at 02:50 PM.
Kind of funny. Much of Winter's criticism has come from those that don't believe "Total Football", an attacking minded system can work here.
He plays a couple of games with a park the bus mentality (after meeting with Ansemli) then reverts back to an attacking style and all of a sudden it is the players' doing and the reason for victory?
Wow.
Rather than read between the lines, why not read the actual lines? Ryan Johnson said that the "players got some things off their chest and the coaches got some things off their chest." He, like Frings, also added that they fully back their coach. I think it is fair to say that both players and coaches realize that the only ones that can get them out of the mess is themselves.
The fact that they went back to it after a few games of not playing it, after a team meeting to discuss it, tells me they had some faith in it. Otherwise they would have, I don't know, asked him to do something else.
^
Pookie,
That is right. One win shows us that everything is all right, and that everyone is on the same page, and we can forget the past 8 shit shows.
Maybe you are right, but you are reading to much into limited statements. Lets get a couple of wins, before declaring everything A-ok. If that happens I will shout winter praise for despite coming to a point at which he should have been fired he was able to turn shit around. Lets see.
We have had these moments almost every season, and almost every time I said this it, it has to be blown up, I have turned out right. This year, like every other I hope I am wrong. But history is not against me.
This club is turning in Maple Leafs FC in every way.
A 4-3-3 is not a system, a system is more complicated then that, it has to do with how players are lined within that, what the responsibilities are, how the ball should be passed, were the attack shuold come from, etc. etc. The fact that they lined up 4-3-3 does not show that they believe in Winter system.
^ trane actually my blog today was simply on enjoying the moment.
The win last night, IMO, doesn't mean forget the past... the absurd cost of tickets, the internal meddling, roster mismanagement, Anselmi leadership and the playoff challenge... nor does it predict anything about the future (good or bad)
Just means that for one night players and coaches were on the same page, each playing for each other and that is great moment. No more. No less.
My issue was with the idea that Winter had nothing to do with it and they won inspite of him. It was a team win. Coaches picked the roster, talked the tactics and the players executed with grit and hustle. If they were really playing inspite of him and doing it their way, there is no reason for both Johnson and Frings to offer that they solidly back their coach.
As I've frequently tried to point out, attacking football and Aron Winter are not the same thing.
As for "fully backing the coach".... Coming out and saying your manager is shit will sink your career, no matter how bad actually is. That's why it's prudent to read between the lines and not take everything at face value.
Although our real problem is clearly all the Canadians on the roster /sarcasm
"A 4-3-3 is not a system, a system is more complicated then that, it has to do with how players are lined within that, what the responsibilities are, how the ball should be passed, were the attack shuold come from, etc. etc. The fact that they lined up 4-3-3 does not show that they believe in Winter system."
^ You are seriously trying my patience.
Usually if one thinks their manager is shit, they don't actually come out and say anything. "We are proud of the way we played" Stop "The guys really rallied together" Stop
Reading between the lines is one thing. Making stuff up is another.
Why? I should accept your conclusions, without question?
It is called a discussion. There are two sides to one.
No, but attacking football is Aron Winter's approach, and the team clearly wanted to get back to that and not the way they played the past two games.
You don't have to like Aron Winter to say that the team played closer to his system than they had in quite a few games.
Actually i'm ok with him sitting out the 1st leg in van city. I would like to see hall get a start anyways.
Unfortunately I'm limited by posting on phone at this point, but I'd bet dollars to donuts we could find similar statements when Preki was the coach.
Making things up, sounds more to me like looking at a team that is suffering through a horrible run of form and bending over backwards to insist nothing is happening
Now that I agree with. In yesterday's game they did play closer to what they said they would be playing when winter came on board.
I like Winter. I just do not like the results he has given our team during his tenure. So far it has not been good enough.
I don't care if the players like Aron Winter or want to flush him down the toilet, the fact is they played his preferred system last night. That's hardly a debatable opinion. You can argue they played it better than in earlier games this season, but that's about it.
This is the problem. The problem I new we would have with the win.
So we actually agree.....
Dude, you are missing my point. I will not reiterate it for the third time. I am not trying to be an ass but a 4-3-3 is a way to demarcate the basic form of a formation, not a system.
[ and honestly I am not trying to be an ass]
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