TFC vs MTL VC, Dr. Jekyll & TFC post-game thread

[Roogsy]

It was a fortunate result for us, but putting it all down to "luck" is just being intentionally negative. Dallas lost to the better team, not to a last minute lucky bounce. We still had to put ourselves in the situation where a Dallas loss moved us forward, and we still pounded them 3-0 in our last game of the group stage to make it a moot point anyhow. Invalidating the entire thing as lucky because we got a helpful result in the group stages, is kind of ridiculous.

As is using the word "struggling" as though it's a mitigating factor on our victory.

- Scott

Are you saying Dallas didn't stumble the 2nd half of 2011?

[Yohan]

Are you saying Dallas didn't stumble the 2nd half of 2011?

Depends on how you want to look at it. Dallas had terrible September, but came into the game vs TFC with a 2 game winning streak in Oct

[Couchy81]

Can't we just all agree Dallas was playing sub-par and we were playing above average and destroyed them?

[Jeffro]

Chris, you can't dismiss all of our successes as luck if you're going to dismiss some of our losses this year being a bit of bad luck as well. Sure Tauro beat Dallas which helped us out, but that's why the games are played. You need to win those supposedly easy games, which we did beating Tauro twice (or did we draw on the road, I forget), Dallas didn't. Getting a decent run of luck is a huge part of nearly every championship or cup winning run. The thing is you have to create that luck, and we've certainly created our own luck so far this season. You have astute tactical breakdowns for why we lose games, I'm not letting you off with 'we were lucky' for when we do well

BTW, I'm going to start giving you negative rep randomly, even though I agree with 90% of what you say, just so those 3 green cards you have don't go to your head!

[T-boy]

Call it luck, good timing, or whatever else - the fact remains that since Aron Winter has been TFC manager, they have fairly constantly looked very good in CCL games and very poor in MLS games. It suggests that the form of the team in one of the two competitions is false. Otherwise why wouldn't the same team and players be constant in both competitions? Either poor in both or good in both. They can't keep up this pattern, and something will either have to go horrible wrong in the CCL qualification this season, or they will start playing in the league like ther are playing in the cup.

I, for one, don't believe they will be able to up their league play. So, eventually the league form will go into the cup form, and we won't do very well in the cup. I hope I'm wrong - but I would suggest this may be the case in the near future. We shall see!

[joeyjones]

Call it luck, good timing, or whatever else - the fact remains that since Aron Winter has been TFC manager, they have fairly constantly looked very good in CCL games and very poor in MLS games. It suggests that the form of the team in one of the two competitions is false. Otherwise why wouldn't the same team and players be constant in both competitions? Either poor in both or good in both. They can't keep up this pattern, and something will either have to go horrible wrong in the CCL qualification this season, or they will start playing in the league like ther are playing in the cup.

I, for one, don't believe they will be able to up their league play. So, eventually the league form will go into the cup form, and we won't do very well in the cup. I hope I'm wrong - but I would suggest this may be the case in the near future. We shall see!

well, a majority of the NCC/ACC/CCL games over the last 2 years were against MLS opponents as opposed to opponents in any other league, correct? if that is the case, and i haven't even looked at the numbers tbh, what is the explanation of TFC sucking in the MLS and doing well in the NCC/ACC/CCL....it's not good luck or bad luck, it's the team being ready for one competition and not ready for the other...who is that down to????....want me to start a poll? if we did prep correctly and come out with energy in our fucking league matches, we would def be competing for a playoff spot....

[Shakes McQueen]

As is the case most of the time, I think the truth is more complicated than that.

- Scott

[Yohan]

http://www.goal.com/en-ca/news/4189/...ers-toronto-fc

Frings took painkillers to play on Wed?

[Fort York Redcoat]

well, a majority of the NCC/ACC/CCL games over the last 2 years were against MLS opponents as opposed to opponents in any other league, correct? if that is the case, and i haven't even looked at the numbers tbh, what is the explanation of TFC sucking in the MLS and doing well in the NCC/ACC/CCL....it's not good luck or bad luck, it's the team being ready for one competition and not ready for the other...who is that down to????....want me to start a poll? if we did prep correctly and come out with energy in our fucking league matches, we would def be competing for a playoff spot....

Our MLS opponents in CCL play were just as competitive against us as in the league. Because it was group competition we could get away with giving points against them for some games.

And there are some polls on what's wrong already. Feel free to chime in on those.

[Richard]

http://www.goal.com/en-ca/news/4189/...ers-toronto-fc

Frings took painkillers to play on Wed?

Wow the man is a beast, best player TFC has ever had?

Edit: He got injections which means the pain must have been really bad.

[Chevy]

Can't we just all agree Dallas was playing sub-par and we were playing above average and destroyed them?

Nah, that's far too simple. Didn't you hear? Any club success MUST be qualified to the Nth degree, explained away as luck or some other BS force of nature. That said, every ounce of failure, and we do have our fair share, is absolute in nature and is not open for debate.

Why? All because some narccisists have a burr up their a$$ and need to prove a point on the internet to stroke their fragile egos. I hope one day this board returns as a forum for actual supporters.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Why? All because some narccisists have a burr up their a$$ and need to prove a point on the internet to stroke their fragile egos. I hope one day this board returns as a forum for actual supporters.

There will always be room for different types of supporters here as long as they be respectful to others but there will always be those that disagree and get frustrated and take a break. Some come back. Some do not.

[123 elite]

Again...luck.

People forget that it wasn't just beating a struggling Dallas team that helped us in. It was also the fact that Dallas got beaten by Tauro. If that didn't go our way, we wouldn't have been in regardless.

So the stars got together and helped us. And we made it far. No reason not to enjoy that. But to then sit back and say, "let's do it again in the same exact way"? That's tempting the soccer gods and a ridiculous strategy. Most people with common sense would say "Phew! We had a few breaks along the way and enjoyed the ride, but next time, let's make sure that we don't need as much luck to achieve the same results or better!". But that's not the case. Instead of acknowledging the deficiences of this club, we excuse and rationalize them away. We even hit what most people would consider rock bottom, going 0-8 to start the season and STILL don't think it means anything. How do you argue against that?

What would have happened if instead of facing a surprisingly disoriented LA team, we would have drawn Santos or Monterrey in the Quarters? How many think there would have been much talk about reaching the CCL finals? Does anyone believe we would have progressed to the Semis? Or drawn 50k at the Skydome?

The CCL was a Cinderella run. But there is a reason it's called a Cinderella run. And if we don't understand why we were Cinderella and what eventually happens to her at the end of the evening, then we will never be motivated enough to help this team improve to the point where those types of runs aren't just a surprise, they're almost expected. That should be our goal. Not to hope for another surprise run but to have confidence that those runs are within our capabilities. Because just like there are moments of good luck, there will be moments of bad luck. And the teams that are well-built enjoy enormous success with good luck and weather quite handily moments of bad luck. With Toronto, we have miniscule success with good luck and have disastrous season with bad luck. That speaks to more than just luck, it speaks to a team that does not have the foundation in place to weather good times and bad.

Much truth is spoken here.

[ag futbol]

I'd call it comparable to an 8th seeded RBNY team miraculously making the MLS cup finals then sucking balls next year. Outside of the one silo that is a good run of form, everybody knew the team wasn't great. Sure enough, Osorio got the sack shortly after.

In the end you are what you are on average, and on average TFC is not good.

[joeyjones]

Our MLS opponents in CCL play were just as competitive against us as in the league. Because it was group competition we could get away with giving points against them for some games.

And there are some polls on what's wrong already. Feel free to chime in on those.

was joking on starting a poll...lol...but my point is that over the last 2 years in cup competition our record against MLS sides is 4-1-3..

[BayernTFC]

Frings took painkillers to play on Wed?

From the link Yohan posted:

goalkeeper Milos Kocic told reporters after Wednesday night's 2-0 victory for Toronto. "Yesterday was a try-out for him, to see how it's going to feel. This morning he had one [injection]. It just shows you what kind of captain he is [and] what kind of personality he has."

"It was a very important game for us. We wanted to win this game, especially at home against Montreal," Frings explained. "It was only pain, and it's not a problem to play with it."

http://www.goal.com/en-ca/news/4189/...ers-toronto-fc

I think those quotes sum it up nicely. Class and character.

[skypilot69]

around 6:25 mark...

Watch from around the 6th minute of the above to see the Ultras in action (They should be banned).

I was at the match and was very disturbed by the Ultas behavior. I've been searching the web for any news on this criminal act and could not find anything about it. Was anyone arrested? Or was it swept under the carpet?

Cheers

SP69

[T-boy]

^^^

I remember when a bunch of West Brom fans got into the home end at Oxford and there was a riot.....those were the days!

Although I don't condone a couple of chairs being dropped - its hardly the world's biggest fan trouble. I'm sure those couple of fans who tore the seats out will be banned from BMO - but there's no need to be THAT disturbed by all this! Montreal fans are a bunch of pussy cats in comparison to many world soccer fans.

[skypilot69]

^^^

I remember when a bunch of West Brom fans got into the home end at Oxford and there was a riot.....those were the days!

Although I don't condone a couple of chairs being dropped - its hardly the world's biggest fan trouble. I'm sure those couple of fans who tore the seats out will be banned from BMO - but there's no need to be THAT disturbed by all this! Montreal fans are a bunch of pussy cats in comparison to many world soccer fans.

I've been to numerous matches in England and have seen a few scraps between supporters outside the ground. I just don't want this stuff to start here.

I know that there was probably a few headcases chucking the seats but I am just surprised by the lack of press coverage vs when we were called "hooligans" by the Toronto press after a trip to Columbus.

Cheers

SP69

[bones]

I've been to numerous matches in England and have seen a few scraps between supporters outside the ground. I just don't want this stuff to start here.

I know that there was probably a few headcases chucking the seats but I am just surprised by the lack of press coverage vs when we were called "hooligans" by the Toronto press after a trip to Columbus.

Cheers

SP69

And nothing in Year 1 of the VC when we were shoehorned out 1 small exit to receive stones being thrown at us by the UM which sparked a few TFC Nuckles - UM face meetings.

Sometimes they report stuff....sometime we're not the bad guys so they say nothing.