I totally agree.Originally Posted by Huyton
I can't see us winning AT DC on the 19th. So, beating Montreal could then guarantee TFC go 0-9 in the league and still have Winter in charge.
Can anybody currently see us winning in DC? Its almost guaranteed 0-9 I would suggest.
of course not, who would?
Anyone who thinks that we should get knocked out of the Canadian Championship by Montreal in the bizarre belief that it would have a direct impact on the coaching situation, needs to take of the tin-foil hat, and have a beer.
So, we have a decade or two-long losing streak. It will pass ... Winter will fall or die based on our league performance, no matter how many cup games we win. I'm sure that if he doesn't turn it around sometime this year or next, we'll be seeing him depart.
There's no way we'll win in DC. I am going to that game, and I'm just not that lucky.
O, Maple Leaf around the world, You speak as you rise high above,
Of courage, peace and quiet strength, Of the Canada that I love.
Remind us all, our union bound by ties we cannot sever,
Bright flag revered on every ground, The Maple Leaf forever
Poor logic there Priz. The question should not be to look at previous managers that have taken TFC to the playoffs but whether the current one will. The answer is no, he will not based on his current track record. If hired properly, another manager will likely have better results. That is the only relevant question.
So if we fire Winter now, and hire someone properly, we may have them available by ... October?
Or have we already hired them ...
That's the key. One might want to ask the question, what will the change cost?
Sometimes it is difficult to respond in discussions with this theme because I don't want it to appear as if I am defending Winter. I am not. I agreed with the idea of TFC adopting a philosophy and building a culture, but I was never sold on Aron Winter being the right man to implement such a vision in Toronto. Despite my misgivings, some of the things he has done since coming here have reminded me of Preki (constant upheaval in the lineup, relying on below average players for far too long, and the blaming of others), I have given him the chance to show me what he can do. Admittedly, I prefer watching Winter's squad to Preki's. However, even with a few wins here or there, it doesn't look like the players' psyche can handle much more losing under him. A two-legged tie against Vancouver is very different to one game at home versus Montreal. I really feel for the fans in the stands as well. I only hope that any decisions are taken with great care.
winter has become the quote machine lately...."my job is safe even if we lose tomorrow,but we are going to win tomorrow,wtf.
this is from kurt's twitter.
It's not even about hiring them properly or not. You just have to keep changing manager UNTIL you find the right one! So, it might be the next manager, or the third manager for now. But to stick with a loser isn't the answer!
I don't understand the fear of firing Winter on this board? Why do people have SO much faith in Winter, and yet were quick to fire Preki? What's to say that Preki couldn't have turned the club around in 2 seasons? What is Winter saying that makes people so hopeful that he can turn things around? It certainly isn't his track record!
saying we suck means we support the badge. If we didn't give a shit we wouldn't be angry.
maybe they are all leaf fans. as my old man would say "they wouldn't say shit if they had a mouthful of it"
as for the Vespa, go ahead. don't like them anyway, too slow.
It's not so much what Winter is saying that has people backing him up, it's the fact that we've had 6 managers in 6 seasons. People are getting fed up of seeing a new coach every season, not to mention, the turnover of players each season. It's gotten to the point where we might as well hand each new coach that we hire a tent and tell them not to get too settled into this city. I also think the majority of supporters, including myself, had high expectations when Winter signed his contract. It seemed like we finally had an identity after 4 frustrating seasons. Right up until the second half of the CCL game against Santos Laguna, there was indication that this club may have turned it around. Unfortunately, since that time, it's become clear that there is something very wrong within the organization.
The only turnaround I envision is if we take care of Montreal tomorrow. That MAY (no guarantee of course) get us back on track in league play. If we fall, however, I don't see the losing streak coming to an end for at least another game or two and by then I feel that we should start cleaning house and not just axing the coach but making changes at the executive level.
^
BelfastBoy,
This is the thing. I am angry as fucking hell. I am fucking tiered of this shit, and I cannot believe that 99% of supporters do not feel the same.
THERE IS NOT VALID REASON TO KEEP THIS MANAGER. HE HAS BEEN AT THE HEAD OF THIS TEAM FOR 58 games and he has only won 14. That we have had a poor record to hire managers, so we should keep one that is a poor hire, makes no logical sense.
if it keeps up they will kill football in Toronto.
I know you're frustrated with the team but what makes you think Winter is the problem and not MLSE? or players for that matter?
that's it right there....Winter has only proven that he is not up to the task....i was sick to my stomach last wednesday night, we were so bad....i don't mind "parking the bus" when it's warranted, but we looked horrible doing that as well....and then he comes right back with that mentality against DC and we get smoked. he is not the man for this job.
Regardless of the result tomorrow, TFC is headed into a bye week. A new manager could be appointed over the weekend, and have a full week's training with the squad before the first match....just sayin'...
That's a fair question, I would say Trane and I both believe that the evidence before us speaks to the record itself is attributable to a manager issue, not an ownership issue nor a player issue.
Is there any evidence pointing otherwise? We are talking about being 0-8, not whether Anselmi knows his ass from a hole in the wall because at the end of the day, whether he does or does not, he still gave Winter $8million bucks to work with and what we have before us is the result. So unless you can point to Anselmi being the one who determined where and how those $8million were being spent, running the practices, picking the lineups and tactics, I'd like to see an explanation how an 0-8 record falls at his feet and not Winters.
Last edited by Roogsy; 05-08-2012 at 02:49 PM.
There is one thing that management left out this off season. MLS has gotten deeper and deeper with talent every year. TFC has not the galaxy are making the same mistakes now next comes real salt lake. Back to TFC for a moment, Julian De Guzman should have been bought-out in the off season this would have given us more room in the salary cap. I also think that FREI sould have been sold to any club outside of MLS hence more room in the salary cap. 355K (deguz) + 170 or so for (Frei) young dps go for less under the cap that leaves TFC with 300k more in wiggle room 300K would loan us a very good player from Europe or even south america hopefully a CB selling frei brings in more allocation in the process now that is good management shame on you TFC for being blind to this MLS that is beating you every year.
To make my points clear i will provide you with some proof, its simple truth. last year the caps and timbers came in as expansion teams timbers were better then us and the caps where at par more or less heck they where only an expansion team. Phily and a better record then us in their expansion season, now MTL has a better on then us. MLSE you are pathetic you do the same with the leafs. Reason being your always a few steps behind the competition.
What I want to see is when the opportunity arises and a great not good but great player can be bought here you fuckers better pull out the wallet and pay him respectfully. (Drogba-del piero-seedorf. whatever make it happen.
Also this beaver fest we are into is obviously not working so fix it.
other then that i will quietly support my team form my own home because you dont deserve my fucken money! the next time i go to a tfc match it will be a free ticket but i will bring a bag on my head. Come to think of it all TFC supporters should do this on the next league match to show their displeasure.
as for Wednesdays match 2-1 TFC because i will never bet against my team.
Sure, because we've had the same ownership and five other managers and about a thousand other players and this is the first time we've been 0-8.
It's pretty sad that we were made such big promises about vision and culture and affecting the game in North America and now it's come to, just give us one win. Just one. It's hard to have any faith in the long-term plans when they can't even win one game.
But isn't "Will Winter stay or go?" the major question about tomorrow night's game? I sometimes get the sense that the players have tuned him out. Have they quit on him? This is all part and parcel to what we can expect tomorrow.
Even though overseas, I just can no longer resist. What makes anyone think it is just a question of the manager? OK, so 6 coaches in 6 years. How many players, on the other hand, have passed through? This turnover can not simply be a function of new managers wanting "their" own type players. At least 2-3 of them knew fiddle diddle about MLS and its type of play: Carver and Winter, with possibly Cummings also in there. How do you explain the types of Cunningham and DeRo gone? Exceptional circustamces, I think not. Beyond an unsually high manager turnover, which is never good, the even higher player turnover is much worst. It may well be time to think about sacrificing the season and properly develop
the actual roster for next year.
Agreed...Winter is as much a topic of conversation around this game as anything, because if we lose, it should be his last.
FFS this is thread is PREGAME THREAD,
IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS WINTER GO TO ONE OF MANY FUCK WINTER THREADS and DO IT THERE BY ALL MEANS.
TOPIC OF THIS THREAD IS TOMORROW GAME!
Again I ask...as I did earlier in the thread. Are you saying that the results of this particular game will have no effect on whether Winter stays or goes?
then do you believe that MLSE has ability it to "properly" hire a manager?
i'd like to think that Anselmi would pull the plug on AW if TFC loses tomorrow night, i'm just not sure that he will. MLSE is such a screwed up org. with respect to running sports teams, you never know who is running the ship...
There was nothing wrong with hiring Winter. Winter had all the credentials of being a good manager. I praised the hiring in the first place, and I would have hired him also.
He just hasn't worked out. Not all managers DO work out.
so, I believe Anselmi and his buddies CAN hire another good looking manager. There was nothing wrong with the last hiring process.
what credentials pointed to him being a good manager?
this. Winter out.
In all fairness, probably not. But that is also a worst-case scenario because then it pretty much assures that not only have they selected wrong with Winter but will continue to select poorly going forward and we all are truly screwed.
There is still an element of faith that hopefully the next time they get it right. Because so far they haven't. But that is hardly a supportive statement for keeping Winter in place. So it really just leaves us one choice. To pray and hope the next selection is better.
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