The 4-4-2's

[[NBF]]

There has to be a change in formation now. Regardless, if Koevermans returns most teams have gotten better and experienced defenders in the offseason to defend versus the improved group of Strikers in MLS. Koevermans and Johnson can't be expected to sit in between to centre backs and score goals. First, of all you have to get better wingers to snipe at Koevermans or Johnson to make that work and second, we've never even heard of wingers on this team in 6 years.

My point though is that we have to put two strikers side by side in order to create chances for our DP striker or our second best striker, Ryan Johnson, who almost always seem to be completely crowded by the defenders as the lone strikers.

4-4-2:#1

-----------------------Kocic-----------------------
Eckersley-------Cann----------Aceval-------Morgan
Henry----------Maund---------Harden--------Emory
---------------------------------------------------
--------------DeGuzman---------------------------
---------------Stinson-----------------------------
Avila--------------------------Frings-----------Silva
Lambe-----------------------Dunfield-------Soolsma
Hall------------------------------------------------
--------------Johnson-----------------------------
---------------Plata-------------------------------
------------------------------Koevermans----------

4-4-2:#2

-----------------------Kocic-----------------------
Eckersley------Henry-----------Cann---------Aceval
Hall-----------Maund----------Harden-------Morgan
---------------------------------------------------
---------------------DeGuzman--------------------
-----------------------Emory----------------------
------------Avila----------------Frings-------------
-----------Stinson--------------Dunfield------------
---------------------------------------------------
----------------------Johnson----------------------
-----------------------Silva------------------------
------Koevermans------------------Plata-----------
--------Lambe--------------------Soolsma----------

[DoubleUp]

diamond or nothing!!!!

[RedDevils]

diamond or nothing!!!!

Reading people equating 442 with English hoofball these past few weeks has been extremely frustrating.

Watch some clips of Brazil in 1994, playing a 442 diamond. Try to tell me 442 is boring English style football after watching that team.

For TFC, though, it doesn't matter what formation they go with. 4 in the back with our CBs and full backs is a recipe for disaster. We need to build from the back sign defenders first, and in the meantime maybe go with a 4-2-3-1 to prop up the defense and crowd the mid.

[ag futbol]

^ That's the thing about formation talk. It's hard to have a debate because there is so much flexibility within each formation. People need to stop thinking of things in absolutes.

You can play a defensive minded 4-3-3 damnit.

[RedDevils]

You can play a defensive minded 4-3-3 damnit.

For sure, it all boils down to the quality of your players, though. You can't really play a back 4 at all if the only way to come out with a clean sheet against an expansion side is to literally put 10 behind the ball.

We're in a really, really bad spot, if that hasn't been obvious .

[[NBF]]

Reading people equating 442 with English hoofball these past few weeks has been extremely frustrating.

Watch some clips of Brazil in 1994, playing a 442 diamond. Try to tell me 442 is boring English style football after watching that team.

For TFC, though, it doesn't matter what formation they go with. 4 in the back with our CBs and full backs is a recipe for disaster. We need to build from the back sign defenders first, and in the meantime maybe go with a 4-2-3-1 to prop up the defense and crowd the mid.

This doesnt work for TFC either. 4-2-3-1 was what the team played on Saturday.

--------------------Kocic------------------
Eckersley----Henry--------Aceval----Morgan
-------------------------------------------
----------DeGuzman-------Frings-----------
Lambe--------------Silva---------------Avila
-------------------Johnson-----------------

It didnt work because their was no support from the flanks from Lambe and Avila. Even though the idea and effort was there, going with a lone striker and a midfielder playing the invisible man (the dunfield role) regardless if it was Silva this last time was completely flawed because they dropped both central midfielders to play defense. They were literally playing in a 6-1-3 with no wing support.

[ag futbol]

^ That formation falls down in sooo many ways for TFC I can't even begin to count them.



- The two guys who are supposed to shield the backline are too slow (JDG and Frings). Makes it easier for other teams to hit us on the counter or pass around our core.

- Johnson playing by himself up top is Maicon Santos part II. He's a good player, but he simply can't hack the requirement. The coaching staff are idiots for continuing to do stuff like this. He needs to play in a two striker or a three striker system, otherwise drag him out wide as a winger.

- Not a huge fan of Lambe and Avila (as you mentioned). Avila had a few good moments, Lambe was comparatively invisable. It's tough for these smaller players to have an impact in physical MLS, which isn't to say they need to be excluded from the equation, but they need to be used carefully.

[DoubleUp]

^ That formation falls down in sooo many ways for TFC I can't even begin to count them.



- The two guys who are supposed to shield the backline are too slow (JDG and Frings). Makes it easier for other teams to hit us on the counter or pass around our core.

- Johnson playing by himself up top is Maicon Santos part II. He's a good player, but he simply can't hack the requirement. The coaching staff are idiots for continuing to do stuff like this. He needs to play in a two striker or a three striker system, otherwise drag him out wide as a winger.

- Not a huge fan of Lambe and Avila (as you mentioned). Avila had a few good moments, Lambe was comparatively invisable. It's tough for these smaller players to have an impact in physical MLS, which isn't to say they need to be excluded from the equation, but they need to be used carefully.

Agree! Johnson(winger) is not and will never be a clinical finisher.

Lambe is not starting 11 material yet! close but not there. You can add silva,plata to that aswell.(Issey is a seasoned professional for 27 even more so than johnson)

midfield, mainly julians influence is my biggest problem we need a more physical player with the same passing range........but is it a brazilian DM(skilled but still defensive) or an english CM(box2box tackling engine with decent passing range) or german CM (technical stud with good passing range and awareness)

if we can assemble a proper squad in front of the back 4 then that will give a better idea of what exactly we need back there................mls is an offense first league.

we need players with footy iq and more imagination going forward.

[Yohan]

if we can assemble a proper squad in front of the back 4 then that will give a better idea of what exactly we need back there................mls is an offense first league.

false. good MLS teams have good defence first. See Whitecaps 2012, LA 2011

[DoubleUp]

false. good MLS teams have good defence first. See Whitecaps 2012, LA 2011

no in this league your midfield and strikers win you, games most mls teams of shoddy backline defending but competent team defending.

how many 1 nils do seen in comparison to goal fests, this is an offensive league period...............not asking! but telling!

[Yohan]

no in this league your midfield and strikers win you, games most mls teams of shoddy backline defending but competent team defending.

how many 1 nils do seen in comparison to goal fests, this is an offensive league period...............not asking! but telling!

Name me 1 MLS Cup winner with a 'shoddy' defence.

[DoubleUp]

Name me 1 MLS Cup winner with a 'shoddy' defence.

colorado did pretty well with positionless wynne(amusing your argument)

name me one with out an above average midfield and attackers.


defenders dont create play and put the ball in the back of the net.

[Yohan]

colorado did pretty well with positionless wynne(amusing your argument)

name me one with out an above average midfield and attackers.


defenders dont create play and put the ball in the back of the net.

Wynne actually turned into a good CB, complemented by Drew Moor who brings in the aerial ability to Wynne's pace. You don't earn a starter position in MLS Cup winning teams by being shite.

2011 LA Galaxy had 9 1-0 wins. 4 2-1 wins. That team is probably the most potent offensive team in the history of the league.

[Ajax TFC]

one way we could play a 4-4-2 Diamond:

Alternative #6s: Stinson, Aceval
Alternative #7/8s: Burgos, Cordon, Soolsma, Silva
Alternative #10s: Silva, Johnson
Alternative # 9/11s: Silva? Orozco.... why the hell didn't we sign that guy?
I'm thinking that this setup would play a defensive/ quick counter-attacking style. Frings plays as the destroyer, Avila as the primary distributor, Koevermans as the target man, Plata as the second striker, and Lambe playing in the hole behind them. JDG is there to disrupt the other teams' counter attacks further up the pitch.

IMO Silva needs to be tried out in multiple rolls. He doesn't find space for himself enough to be a midfielder in a 4-3-3, so I think he needs to be tried as a wide midfielder/winger or as a striker

[trane]

This is like saying what meal would you cook, regardless of what ingridiates you have. Sure I can always go for a plate of pasta but if I have pork chops and sallad, there is not point trying to make pasta with it.


The players you have have to be considered in choosing a formation.

[brad]

This is like saying what meal would you cook, regardless of what ingridiates you have. Sure I can always go for a plate of pasta but if I have pork chops and sallad, there is not point trying to make pasta with it.


The players you have have to be considered in choosing a formation.

And the opposition.

[Canary10]

Am I the only one looking at these formation who thinks we can't field a decent 4-4-2? We don't a have a good pair of strikers who can make runs in a 4-4-2 (not sure we even have two strikers period). Plata playing off Koevermans in the middle? Not sure I can see that.

Also not sure we have proper wide midfielders for a 4-4-2. Soolsma is probably the closest. Lambe may be in time.

[[NBF]]

Am I the only one looking at these formation who thinks we can't field a decent 4-4-2? We don't a have a good pair of strikers who can make runs in a 4-4-2 (not sure we even have two strikers period). Plata playing off Koevermans in the middle? Not sure I can see that.

Also not sure we have proper wide midfielders for a 4-4-2. Soolsma is probably the closest. Lambe may be in time.

I agree the roster is very varied, but not in a good way. The 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 are both going to be difficult to put together with this roster, but the team needs to change to create better chances for Johnson or Koevermans or Plata. The lone striker is definitely not working for Koevermans or Johnson. This team needs to switch to a two striker formation(Regardless of who are the two strikers).

[[NBF]]

one way we could play a 4-4-2 Diamond:

Montreal vs TFC: You were pretty close with this lineup, and I'm glad that they were able to play in this formation. The only surprise was Henry and Cann were starting in the backline together. Not that the Montreal are a good finishing team but the Cann/ Henry duo played extremely well.

[trane]

^ They did not play a 4-4-2, against last night, Johnson was in the midle, plata one side of him Lambe on the other.

[burlington Red]

Montreal vs TFC: You were pretty close with this lineup, and I'm glad that they were able to play in this formation. The only surprise was Henry and Cann were starting in the backline together. Not that the Montreal are a good finishing team but the Cann/ Henry duo played extremely well.

eh he was nowhere close with his formation, he was wrong at centre back with Aceval (Cann started and was always gonna start) , he was wrong with Lambe and Kovermans up front, Plata played on the wing, Johnson played up front, Avila played up front also to start with, Lanbe started on wing and ended at right back following Ecks dismassal.
sorry don't mean to be rude but buddys selection was way off

[Ajax TFC]

eh he was nowhere close with his formation, he was wrong at centre back with Aceval (Cann started and was always gonna start) , he was wrong with Lambe and Kovermans up front, Plata played on the wing, Johnson played up front, Avila played up front also to start with, Lanbe started on wing and ended at right back following Ecks dismassal.
sorry don't mean to be rude but buddys selection was way off

I wasn't "wrong" because I wasn't predicting the lineups. It was a purely theoretical lineup. The thread is about what a TFC 4-4-2 would look best as, not what TFC's formation vs the Montreal Impact would look like

[Abou Sky]

one way we could play a 4-4-2 Diamond:

Alternative #6s: Stinson, Aceval
Alternative #7/8s: Burgos, Cordon, Soolsma, Silva
Alternative #10s: Silva, Johnson
Alternative # 9/11s: Silva? Orozco.... why the hell didn't we sign that guy?
I'm thinking that this setup would play a defensive/ quick counter-attacking style. Frings plays as the destroyer, Avila as the primary distributor, Koevermans as the target man, Plata as the second striker, and Lambe playing in the hole behind them. JDG is there to disrupt the other teams' counter attacks further up the pitch.

IMO Silva needs to be tried out in multiple rolls. He doesn't find space for himself enough to be a midfielder in a 4-3-3, so I think he needs to be tried as a wide midfielder/winger or as a striker

AjaxTFC has exactly what I have been wanting to see, except Johnson where you have Plata and Cann where you have Aceval.

I have heard of it referred to as 4-1-2-1-2 but who the hell cares.

I think the team lends itself to that kind of formation.

Eck and Morgan are good runners up and down the flanks. If we need more defense we can bring in Aceval in place of Lambe and shore up the back.

Johnson and Koef can make magic, especially with Frings there to start plays for them to finish.

I LOVE Lambe, said it from day 1, finally bein redeemed. He is going to be a superstar IMO. He just needed to get his 'MLS elbows' going. He still needs toughening up a BIT but he is extremely smart and talented.