View Poll Results: Whack coaches + Players or 3 wise men???

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  • continue to whack coaches, players, etc...

    7 6.36%
  • Whack Paul Bierne, Tommy (the fuck) Anselmi, and Earl Cochrane (no pun required)

    103 93.64%
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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest Ripoff View Post
    How can anyone back Mariner? When Winter goes, Mariner has to as well. How can he share no blame with what is going on?

    Cochrane also.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfcleeds View Post
    I agree with Phil that for now, our efforts should be to bring our best on Wed. (despite the fact I can't be there, I will be cheering on the boys from afar). However, after that match, I really think we should be directing more efforts to some kind of protest against Anselmi and the rest of the FO in advance of the completion of the sale of Teachers' majority stake to Bell/Rogers. How effective it could be I don't know, but surely this is a great opportunity to plant seeds of doubt in Belogers mind about the current executive team. I don't think it has to be a given that Belogers will keep the status quo. If we don't perform some kind of action, we could be stuck with these guys for another 5 years.

    I am all for group unity, but right now I am not with the group, and I want them to hit bottom, so that we can start our twelve step program to recovery. If 0-8 is not rock fucking bottom, then maybe get knocked out of CL is. We need it.

  3. #123
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    And for the people who want Nicol, why is New England playing so much better without him this year? Can't Toronto do better than Nicol?

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedDevils View Post


    Hope you don't mind, I'll take the words of the RPB pres at that time over yours 6 years later.
    So Paul B. wanted all the supporters to sit together. That was after we had decided on 112.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post


    How'd they get a chicken in the stadium?

    Man, these people are creative. Like the Scooter episode in Italy was it?
    Collection of strange stuff thrown on the football pitch!
    http://www.ultras-tifo.net/news/244-...the-pitch.html






  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfcleeds View Post
    I agree with Phil that for now, our efforts should be to bring our best on Wed. (despite the fact I can't be there, I will be cheering on the boys from afar). However, after that match, I really think we should be directing more efforts to some kind of protest against Anselmi and the rest of the FO in advance of the completion of the sale of Teachers' majority stake to Bell/Rogers. How effective it could be I don't know, but surely this is a great opportunity to plant seeds of doubt in Belogers mind about the current executive team. I don't think it has to be a given that Belogers will keep the status quo. If we don't perform some kind of action, we could be stuck with these guys for another 5 years.
    I like this idea. We support the boys in the stadium, but take out displeasure after the game to the main entrance. The impact of having hundreds of supporters outside the gate is much more dramatic than doing something in the stadium.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest Ripoff View Post
    And for the people who want Nicol, why is New England playing so much better without him this year? Can't Toronto do better than Nicol?
    At this point the team just needs stability - someone who knows MLS and has coached in the league for a few years. Whoever comes in to a 0-8 team is likely going to be an interim, just to get things settled down and to stop the bleeding.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest Ripoff View Post
    And for the people who want Nicol, why is New England playing so much better without him this year? Can't Toronto do better than Nicol?
    Also a guy who got continuously worse results over the last half decade of his career at New England.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    At this point the team just needs stability - someone who knows MLS and has coached in the league for a few years. Whoever comes in to a 0-8 team is likely going to be an interim, just to get things settled down and to stop the bleeding.

    Yes the team needs stability, so why hire an interim coach from outside of the organization to replace him with a full time coach in a few months? Just get full time replacement now. I just don't see any reason to give it to Nicol and include Mariner. What has Mariner done to improve the current situation

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    At this point the team just needs stability - someone who knows MLS and has coached in the league for a few years. Whoever comes in to a 0-8 team is likely going to be an interim, just to get things settled down and to stop the bleeding.
    We need to be careful with this type of thinking. That's is exactly how we got both Mo and Preki.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest Ripoff View Post
    Yes the team needs stability, so why hire an interim coach from outside of the organization to replace him with a full time coach in a few months? Just get full time replacement now. I just don't see any reason to give it to Nicol and include Mariner. What has Mariner done to improve the current situation
    Unless they've been looking for a while and have someone in mind, why hire a long-term cach out of the candidates who happen to be out of contract now?

  12. #132
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    We need someone that can better implement the attacking game we're built for, and has better experience and knowledge of MLS and the North American game. Caleb Porter is high on my list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    We need to be careful with this type of thinking. That's is exactly how we got both Mo and Preki.
    We need to be careful with the type of thinking we used last time. That's exactly how you get Gullit and Winter. And 0-8.

  14. #134
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    Default Gut Check Time

    Afternoon all,

    Talk around here at the moment is pretty much centered on one thing. We all have our opinions, and we all have a love for the club, the one thing I don't think we have right now, however, is a unity in how to get things sorted out.

    Coming on to an internet forum and venting is a great thing, however, it achieves very little. We can come on here, all claim to be the master of football (I know for one I think I am), but it actually achieves very little. I think we have all started a culture of whinging and not doing anything about it. Watching Blackburn as they went down earlier, I noticed the raw, genuine passion of the fans as they showed their anguish towards the manager and the board. However, the players still did a lap of honour at the end to say thanks for the support. It shows that you can be angry at the game and not offend the playing staff. I wish we had a bit more passion like this.

    Constant whinging and back biting on here is not helping, people are sick of the situation already. So how about on Wednesday night we show a bit more of what we're truly feeling the way of banners, chants, flags, anything, showing our disgust at the MLSE and/or the coaching staff. I really truly believe that don't know the half of what we are feeling. It's easy to say they don't care, but in all honesty I don't think they know.

    The players are sick, we are sick. So let's stop this shit and show the rest that we are pissed off and demand a change. No more arguments on here, we're all in this together.

    This will probably get shot down, and if it does, it would come as little surprise. All people do on here at times is hide behind their keyboards and try and gain the moral highground. I don;t want that, I want to stand with my fellow TFC supporters and say enough is enough.

  15. #135
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    I'm at a deep contradiction with this team, and hopelessly depressed with TFC:

    I didn't want this losing streak, because I didn't want Winter to go (NOT because I thought he was a good coach, but because what he did with our Youth and his idea for the system), But:

    -I've completely lost believe in Winter not long ago

    -I just wouldn't be able to care for the club WHEN some other coach, with a different system, comes in.

    -I don't like defensive 4-4-2, hoofing up the ball to the strikers- even if means ugly Wins; and I wouldn't want to support any more Barrets or Cunninghams

    -I don't WANT to go through another coaching, system change: enough is enough

    -Winter, at least, should obviously go

    Perhaps if we could get a proven (experienced) 4-3-3 coach to come in, I could be optimistic. But that's unlikely and also questionable whether it would work.

    Things are pretty depressing
    Last edited by nickio; 05-07-2012 at 05:32 PM.

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    I don't get why 4-3-3 is the saviour of football systems. You guys do realize LA has won the Supporters Shield 2 seasons in a row and an MLS Cup with a 4-4-2?

    The key isn't the style or system...it's playing your particular style effectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    I don't get why 4-3-3 is the saviour of football systems. You guys do realize LA has won the Supporters Shield 2 seasons in a row and an MLS Cup with a 4-4-2?

    The key isn't the style or system...it's playing your particular style effectively.
    I couldn't agree more with you, and I'm not saying styles determine the result or that one is better than the other. But to an extent, it's a preference (much like Music, cars and so on).

    I dont WANT to watch our team play the way that most of MLS teams do. (Having to do with mediocre ability players who really do lack quality on the ball)

    I DO want TFC to strive for technical players with strong on-the ball abilities, and I believe that 4-3-3 really does bring out and demand those qualities. It's a preference...

    Perhaps that's the reality of MLS, and I realize that it may be unrealistic here. But I don't want to settle for less just because of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickio View Post
    I couldn't agree more with you, and I'm not saying styles determine the result or that one is better than the other. But to an extent, it's a preference (much like Music, cars and so on).

    I dont WANT to watch our team play the way that most of MLS teams do. (Having to do with mediocre ability players who really do lack quality on the ball)

    I DO want TFC to strive for technical players with strong on-the ball abilities, and I believe that 4-3-3 really does bring out and demand those qualities. It's a preference...

    Perhaps that's the reality of MLS, and I realize that it may be unrealistic here. But I don't want to settle for less just because of that.
    People need to watch RSL play more often.
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    I don't get why 4-3-3 is the saviour of football systems. You guys do realize LA has won the Supporters Shield 2 seasons in a row and an MLS Cup with a 4-4-2?

    The key isn't the style or system...it's playing your particular style effectively.
    I think 4-3-3 will win more games in the long run and we're more built for that style of soccer. At the very least a manager that will play an attacking game should be a prerequisite for this job. If we go back to a defence first style we'll be back to square 1. You can play attacking football with different formations thaough for sure. RSL plays a 4-4-2 diamond for example and they're pretty attacking-minded.

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    The current TFC squad cannot win with 4-4-2. We are not physical enough for it. This team is built for 4-3-3 or similar attacking style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
    that's pretty much it. Paul B has been behind some pretty boneheaded mistakes from this team (Real Madrid friendly.....) but he's not responsible for the product on the field. His job isn't to put a winner on the field, it's to make sure the lights are on and the game can go ahead. He's like the manager of a movie theater... don't blame him if the flick is terrible, but the seats are clean and the popcorn is fluffy.

    Now for Tom Anselmi.... He should be on the hook for turning 3 of Toronto's teams into basement dwelling losers who are the butt of a national joke.
    After 5 + years of this nonsense, everyone is complicit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    The current TFC squad cannot win with 4-4-2. We are not physical enough for it. This team is built for 4-3-3 or similar attacking style.
    Which they are failing miserably at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Sorry, but I call bullshit on this. I was there for the initial discussions in 2006 on Simon's board, before we were even called the RPB, and we chose 112 ourselves because we thought that the group would be small, and we could all congregate there together. Paul B. did not in any way decide where we would go.

    Same thing goes for U-Sector, which numbered max 20 or so at that time in 2006. They discussed various areas, including behind the net, but decided on 113 because the net would block their displays.

    I personally chose 114 for various reasons that no longer apply, thinking that I could always move my seat later on if I wanted to stand with the "small" group (how wrong I was!).



    You don't really know that much about Klinsmann, do you? This post shows that in spades.

    I'll admit that AW hasn't worked out, but we don't really know what Klinsmann recommended to Anselmi. For all we know, Winter was his #20 choice, but Anselmi picked Winter for the "total football" (cringe) marketing possibilities. It's unfair to tar Klinsmann with ML$E's incompetence. As far as US Soccer, Klinsmann has a lot of familiarity with what is going on.
    Some would say otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reddevils View Post


    hope you don't mind, i'll take the words of the rpb pres at that time over yours 6 years later.

    And you still haven't told me some things i didn't know about klinsmann. What part of klinsmann's resume points to his knowledge of the ussf pyramid and the ncaa? Knowing these two things are key to building a successful mls squad, imo.
    winner!!!

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL-MO View Post
    Which they are failing miserably at.
    Not arguing with that.
    But at least they look good...at times.

    In a 4-4-2, they will look worse than they did against Montreal/DC this past week.

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    I don't get why 4-3-3 is the saviour of football systems. You guys do realize LA has won the Supporters Shield 2 seasons in a row and an MLS Cup with a 4-4-2?

    The key isn't the style or system...it's playing your particular style effectively.
    I agree with this. 4-3-3 doesn't have a non-existent monopoly on football success. If you think our current roster is built better for 4-3-3 than anything else, that's fine (though I may question that sentiment after an 0-8 start - we could play a 1-2-7 and still couldn't possibly have less resultsthan we do now).

    I think the 4-3-3 is a fine formation, and some good teams all over the place use it, as Jack illustrated earlier in this thread (or was it another one? Can't remember). At the same time, what formation you use comes down to the players you have. A formation in and of itself doesn't win you anything.

    - Scott
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL-MO View Post
    Which they are failing miserably at.

    The whole symplistic analyses that we cannot play the 4-4-2 because we are not physical enough, kills me, and that we cannot fire Winter because we may get worse, and then trying to dictate THAT WE NEED TO HIRE AN ATTACK MINDED coach, most of the worlds great teams are either built on defense first, or at least can defend with the best of the them, after 5 years, or suffering first and foremost because we cannot defend, the great mind of this board are still asking for an offensive system, like we are going to sing Messi, Ronaldo, Kaka and Ibra and score at least 3 goals per game. I am sorry but this is the silliest group of supporters I have ever been around, I love talking footy but when it come to TFC it is becoming painful.

  28. #148
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    ^ There are lots of successful teams other than Barcelona who play attacking, possession football. Swansea are the team we should really be modelling after imo. They play our game (or at least the one we are supposed to be playing) with players who are the EPL's equivalent to NASL players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen View Post
    I agree with this. 4-3-3 doesn't have a non-existent monopoly on football success. If you think our current roster is built better for 4-3-3 than anything else, that's fine (though I may question that sentiment after an 0-8 start - we could play a 1-2-7 and still couldn't possibly have less resultsthan we do now).

    I think the 4-3-3 is a fine formation, and some good teams all over the place use it, as Jack illustrated earlier in this thread (or was it another one? Can't remember). At the same time, what formation you use comes down to the players you have. A formation in and of itself doesn't win you anything.

    - Scott
    Agreed.

    There is no one size fits all formation, it is about which formation fits the players you have best, and then executing that formation. Now the 4-3-3 or variants of it is one of the most popular formations currently around, many teams all around Europe use modified versions of it. The issue is not simply about formations. I thing the problem that many on the board have this fascination with the "Dutch football" as if it is the ultimate goal and as if we will be the second coming of Barca if we just play it long enough. Clearly this will not be. We need to build a system that works with the player we have and are likely to get. It may well be a 4-3-3 but it will not be Barca's or Ajax's 4-3-3 it will be our own, and it will change as the season, player and coaches change.

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    I think the big problem isn't so much the formation but the position switching. Half the time people don't seem to know what their role is out there. Our midfield especially tends to either drift upward or backward and we totally lose shape. Position switching is as complicated as it gets. Give everyone out there a distinct position with a distinct role and play a bit more rigid. Get back to the basics of the system, without adding this complicated other layer.

 

 

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