Blue Jays VS Toronto FC

[Ryan1984]

Any one think with all the Hype for the Toronto Blue Jays this year that if they keep doing good it will take a huge dip out of the Toronto FC fanbase. I realize a lot of people are Soccer fans only but with probably at least 50% of the Stadium general sports fans it may be hard to convince people to pay $35.00 to see an Awful Toronto FC play when you could play $14.00 to see a contender in MLB. Also i am a Toronto FC season seat holder since the first day and have a hard time grasping that i pay $722.00 for a pair of south end tickets to 18 games. If you buy a Toronto Blue Jays 15 game Flex pack they start at $120.00 per seat for the 500 level. I get the stadium is monstrous and they have a hard time selling the whole place out but as far as value for your money goes i would say you cannot beat the Blue Jays. If TFC keeps up there losing ways this season the general sports fan in Toronto will quit showing up to games.

[Roogsy]

Better value I can see the case...I'm just not much more than a casual baseball fan though.

[greatwhitenorf]

Hype. Mmmmm. Layered on the Blue Jays like a cheap tart's make-up.

How about the act of self fellating Rogers performs in a recent edition of Sportsnet magazine? They run two-page spread showiing a ground-level, wide-angle view of Juan Bautista supposedly following through on a home-run swing, the ball sailing away into the jam-packed upper deck seats of Skydome.

It's an absolutely, can't-draw-it-any-better, perfect image. Except it's a fantasy image. Taken from a gaming video.

Absolutely sucking themselves off.

Whereas TFC merely suck.

[prizby]

blue jays didnt spend money in the offseason despite all the stuff in the press they would, why should i spend on them

[OgtheDim]

Blue Jays will sell if they do well. If not, they will go back to last year's numbers. Been like that for them since the strike.

That having been said, Blue Jays games are attracting a younger crowd the last few years, with the help of some serious papering by Rogers and some innovative stuff (Tweeting Tuesdays). When/if MLSE gets bought out by two of the biggest cell phone/media companies in the country, watch for that sort of stuff to get applied to TFC. If any company understands the TFC demographic its those two.

For the Jays, the issue for sustainability is the old fogies, and media followers, can't stand all the noise/drunkenness. That, and the season is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long.

As for general sports fans, they left TFC 3 seasons ago.

[ManUtd4ever]

With the recent rejuvenation of the Blue Jays brand in this market, another season of failure will be near suicide for TFC, and push them one step closer to obscurity in this city.

[tfcleeds]

Blue Jays will sell if they do well. If not, they will go back to last year's numbers. Been like that for them since the strike.

That having been said, Blue Jays games are attracting a younger crowd the last few years, with the help of some serious papering by Rogers and some innovative stuff (Tweeting Tuesdays). When/if MLSE gets bought out by two of the biggest cell phone/media companies in the country, watch for that sort of stuff to get applied to TFC. If any company understands the TFC demographic its those two.

For the Jays, the issue for sustainability is the old fogies, and media followers, can't stand all the noise/drunkenness. That, and the season is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long.

As for general sports fans, they left TFC 3 seasons ago.

I preferred the Toonie Tuesdays, but the drunken louts put an end to that.

[Kilgore Trout]

Any one think with all the Hype for the Toronto Blue Jays this year that if they keep doing good it will take a huge dip out of the Toronto FC fanbase. I realize a lot of people are Soccer fans only but with probably at least 50% of the Stadium general sports fans it may be hard to convince people to pay $35.00 to see an Awful Toronto FC play when you could play $14.00 to see a contender in MLB. Also i am a Toronto FC season seat holder since the first day and have a hard time grasping that i pay $722.00 for a pair of south end tickets to 18 games. If you buy a Toronto Blue Jays 15 game Flex pack they start at $120.00 per seat for the 500 level. I get the stadium is monstrous and they have a hard time selling the whole place out but as far as value for your money goes i would say you cannot beat the Blue Jays. If TFC keeps up there losing ways this season the general sports fan in Toronto will quit showing up to games.

May as well start the Blue Jays pricing at $40 or so, because any seats cheaper than that are not worth the walk away from your television.

Jays are more fun to watch than TFC this year, but considering that TFC games are much rarer occasions, that it is really not going to be a preference of many to sit at the 500 level to watch the average Blue Jays home game (unless it's a premium game) and pay for the tickets and concessions.

For other ticket prices, I don't think the competition will have a direct impact unless both teams are playing home games at the same time. Jays attendance will go up, TFC's average attendance will go down about a 1000 or so, but I don't really see people who have enjoyed going to BMO Field quitting and going to that many more Blue Jays games.

I think the supporters sections forget that even if some people are no longer all that eager to go to TFC matches, that does not necessarily mean that they won't show up at all or that they have entirely given up on going to see TFC play. I'm sure the team frustrates the average fan too, but I'm sure I'm not alone in having seen many tweets after the Chicago game along the lines of "aww, TFC lost but I still love you TFC" or "great game, great seats. too bad we lost" etc.

TFC home games are not that common an occurrence and for $35 you can get a sightline you'd pay at least $30 more to get the same quality as at a Blue Jays game, and probably still a more lively stadium experience (no, I'm not complaining about Jays fans) despite a more subdued BMO.

The honeymoon's over, but it's not necessarily time for divorce. TFC is a marriage that probably can get through a few more bad years before it's time for a divorce.

[Just One Man]

Hype. Mmmmm. Layered on the Blue Jays like a cheap tart's make-up.

How about the act of self fellating Rogers performs in a recent edition of Sportsnet magazine? They run two-page spread showiing a ground-level, wide-angle view of Juan Bautista supposedly following through on a home-run swing, the ball sailing away into the jam-packed upper deck seats of Skydome.

It's an absolutely, can't-draw-it-any-better, perfect image. Except it's a fantasy image. Taken from a gaming video.

Absolutely sucking themselves off.

Whereas TFC merely suck.

It was an advert for a videogame. There are certainly example of Rogers trying to control the media perception of their team. The two page advert for MLB 12: The Show isn't one of them.

And as a general sports fan in Toronto, I stopped any discretionary spending on TFC years ago. When people were saying that Winter was floundering in his first seasons trying to establish a system and an academy and was trying to follow the "Ajax model" or Barca or whoever, I knew it was nonsense. This is MLS. Winning teams are built in months, not years. And never mind that, you simply don't get 'years' to build a squad in MLS. There is too much movement and there are too many restrictions on rosters.

[Shakes McQueen]

Any one think with all the Hype for the Toronto Blue Jays this year that if they keep doing good it will take a huge dip out of the Toronto FC fanbase. I realize a lot of people are Soccer fans only but with probably at least 50% of the Stadium general sports fans it may be hard to convince people to pay $35.00 to see an Awful Toronto FC play when you could play $14.00 to see a contender in MLB. Also i am a Toronto FC season seat holder since the first day and have a hard time grasping that i pay $722.00 for a pair of south end tickets to 18 games. If you buy a Toronto Blue Jays 15 game Flex pack they start at $120.00 per seat for the 500 level. I get the stadium is monstrous and they have a hard time selling the whole place out but as far as value for your money goes i would say you cannot beat the Blue Jays. If TFC keeps up there losing ways this season the general sports fan in Toronto will quit showing up to games.

I'd definitely say the Jays are a better game day value than TFC right now, but I don't know that their success or failure really impacts TFC attendance directly. The Rogers Centre is also cavernous, the Jays play more than three times the number of dates, and the 500 level is about a mile away from the field, haha.

But yeah - no doubt TFC tickets are wildly overpriced either way.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

It was an advert for a videogame. There are certainly example of Rogers trying to control the media perception of their team. The two page advert for MLB 12: The Show isn't one of them.

The "brand synergy" between Sportsnet and the Blue Jays is really kind of gross.

- Scott

[Toronto]

I think this thread should be renamed.

Argos vs TFC.

Soon the ticket season base will be in the same numbers.

[greatwhitenorf]

It was an advert for a videogame. There are certainly example of Rogers trying to control the media perception of their team. The two page advert for MLB 12: The Show isn't one of them.

And as a general sports fan in Toronto, I stopped any discretionary spending on TFC years ago. When people were saying that Winter was floundering in his first seasons trying to establish a system and an academy and was trying to follow the "Ajax model" or Barca or whoever, I knew it was nonsense. This is MLS. Winning teams are built in months, not years. And never mind that, you simply don't get 'years' to build a squad in MLS. There is too much movement and there are too many restrictions on rosters.

Oh, sure it was an ad. But it was laid out like some sports-porn fantasy to get dreamers to spank the monkey. Didn't you see the Ivanka Osmak look-a-like modeling lingerie in one of the hotel windows? Won't see that ad layout run anywhere else in the baseball world.

Geez, when I heard 'Ajax model', I went into CSL mode and thought 'why not Pickering or Whitby model?

As for the Argos, here's all you need to know about their prospects.

One publishing company - Core Media - currently produces the Leafs, Raptors, Blue Jays and TFC programs. Pretty nice quality, overall. They had the Argos a long while back and dumped them. Their product is no longer viable to advertisers. They and other CFL clubs with local MLS competitors face the same fate - slow, steady withering into extinction.

TFC absolutely have to get their act together. The Leafs and Raptors are doormats, the Jays aren't much more than a .500 baseball team, the Argos irrelevant. It would be good to see soccer well established before the NFL moves in.

[Technorgasm]

Go fuckin JAYS!
Love our boys in blue!

[__wowza]

I preferred the Toonie Tuesdays, but the drunken louts put an end to that.

ehhh.. yeah. sorry about that.

[Fort York Redcoat]

TFC vs Other Sports Clubs That Are Winning More.

There are a lot of casual fans in Toronto and other NA cities.

The End

[Waggy]

I think this thread should be renamed.

Argos vs TFC.

Soon the ticket season base will be in the same numbers.

Uh, buddy, the Argos until 2 or 3 years ago NEVER had fewer than 16000 season tickets. Though they're less likely to get their house in order than TFC, which is saying something

TFC vs the Jays? That isn't even a competition. ESPN just scheduled the Jays vs Texas in Toronto next week as a national broadcast (the first in Toronto in a LOOOONNGGG time). If broadcasters could change the TV schedule for MLS, they'd be yanking TFC off the air so freaking fast... And value? Hahaha, don't be ridiculous. The Jays put a good product on the field for a good price. TFC put a shit product on the field for a grossly inflated price. Even if TFC were to fix one of those 2 problems, they'd STILL be behind the Jays. As someone who had TFC prioritized ahead of the Jays on TFC game days for most of TFC existence, this year if I was somehow in a situation where I was offered 'best seats in the house' for free for TFC, but my friends were grabbing decent 500 level tickets for $15? I'm paying the $15 and not thinking twice about it.

[Pookie]

More than just a comparison of winning and casual fans.

Are baseball fans and soccer fans the same demographic? From a marketing perspective, I'm not sure they are the same audience. Baseball participation rates are declining in Canada while Soccer sky-rockets.

That said, if your argument is cost (and other factors like convenience in terms of location, accessibility and promotion), then the Jays offer much better value than what TFC puts out there. Their stadium is at Union station, accessible from all directions without connections. Their stadium never really experiences the crap with Ontario Place events, Indy events and CNE events. Parking is generally ample.

Cost is reasonable relative to disposable income of their market. Even in the expensive part of the stadium, you don't see many empty seats behind home plate. Yet, our mid-field looks like a Columbus Crew game indicating pricing inconsistent with the market demand.

Now, their performance with Rogers in charge hasn't been great. A sub .500 record, a decline in payroll spending and limited ability to make the post season. That said, from a fan value perspective, there is really no contest.

[Chris Wren]

His name is Jose Bautista, not Juan Bautista. The Jays will, deservedly so, take a bite out of TFC's fan base. I'm a fan of all Toronto teams. and have neglected the Jays while following TFC. This is the last year for that nonsense. The Jays have built a team the right way and are worthy of support. 500 level seats are not bad at all, but for a price comparison I would be sitting in prime home run territory just past the outfield fense. TFC have blown a golden opportunity, because passionate supporters like me also passionately support other teams in the city. In the modern era of being a supporter of sport the cost is too great to do it all, and supporting a loser of historic preportions is growing old.

[Sweeper]

Haha.....read the title of this thread and thought somebody was going to suggest a friendly so TFC could get their confidence up

[mastermixer]

I don't know how people do it, but there are wayyyy to many games to be interested on a day to day basis in baseball. I'll get excited for the jays if they make a run in August.

[ginkster88]

Not to contribute to the TFC/Jays flame war that this thread threatens to spiral into, but:

May as well start the Blue Jays pricing at $40 or so, because any seats cheaper than that are not worth the walk away from your television.

For other ticket prices, I don't think the competition will have a direct impact unless both teams are playing home games at the same time. Jays attendance will go up, TFC's average attendance will go down about a 1000 or so, but I don't really see people who have enjoyed going to BMO Field quitting and going to that many more Blue Jays games.

Infield 500 level along the baselines are my favourite seats in the house. Great views of the pitcher and batters box and lots of action on the baselines. $11-15/game is a joke for live sports.

I used to be on the TFC waiting list, but now I'm looking into Jays seasons for next year in the 500s... sell the Opener and Canada Day and you pay for quite a bit of it; can't say the same for TFC these days. Demand will be high for the playoff and I want to be there. I don't doubt that if TFC ever make the playoffs, that will now be an easy ticket to come by.

Go fuckin JAYS!
Love our boys in blue!

This.

[tfcleeds]

Haha.....read the title of this thread and thought somebody was going to suggest a friendly so TFC could get their confidence up

Don't even joke about that - the Jays would probably win.

[Nuvinho]

^ Jays would smoke TFC in a game - The Jays have better pitching, but TFC has the advantage, since the strikezone on Plata, Morgan, and Lambe would be so small.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Don't even joke about that - the Jays would probably win.

Of course they would win. They have bats.

If this thread is about how MORE casual fans will be at a winning sports franchise than a struggling one I think it's pretty obvious but carry on..

[ginkster88]

Of course they would win. They have bats.

If this thread is about how MORE casual fans will be at a winning sports franchise than a struggling one I think it's pretty obvious but carry on..

Jays have a bitttttt more history on their side (/sarcasm). The full house at the Robbie Alomar game showed how many people still have strong ties to the team and you know they'll come back for a winner, and there are many folks like me who follow the Jays more closely than TFC, if from afar (radio/TV), and only get to the ball park 3 or 4 times a year. That said, I've already been to Rogers Centre for four games this year, and it will be six by a week tonight.

It really helps to have a competent FO with a clear vision.

[Primavera]

...
Infield 500 level along the baselines are my favourite seats in the house. Great views of the pitcher and batters box and lots of action on the baselines. $11-15/game is a joke for live sports.

I used to be on the TFC waiting list, but now I'm looking into Jays seasons for next year in the 500s...

Next season keep an eye open the the Jays Fan Pass. It costs $99.00 and it is a reserved seat to every regular season game (minus the home opener) in the 500 level. I am sharing a couple with a buddy and for ~$2.00 a game it is simply UNBEATABLE VALUE. 80+ games a season are too many for me, but I don't mind missing a few games at that price.

TFC has me seriously thinking about not renewing my 4 season seats next season. Tickets are readily available on the secondary market for well-under what I paid (MLSE has no control over this, so I can't fault them.) What I find especially annoying are the Groupon sales that offer tickets for substantial discounts. I understand that MLSE needs to move tickets to generate income, but I feel this is yet another step towards alientating SSHs.

Really, what is the incentive to renew?

(Sorry, I've taken this way off topic...)

[ginkster88]

Next season keep an eye open the the Jays Fan Pass. It costs $99.00 and it is a reserved seat to every regular season game (minus the home opener) in the 500 level. I am sharing a couple with a buddy and for ~$2.00 a game it is simply UNBEATABLE VALUE. 80+ games a season are too many for me, but I don't mind missing a few games at that price.

I heard about that for this year, but I prefer to know where my seats will be... I'm scouting locations in 516-519 and 526-529 right now.

Really, what is the incentive to renew?

In my case, it's "what is the incentive to buy" and trust me, there is none. I can get a single at face for any game I want in the ticket trader thread, and last match I saw one come up for $10 literally right after I had confirmed an at face purchase with another seller.

Ridiculous.

[Primavera]

I heard about that for this year, but I prefer to know where my seats will be... I'm scouting locations in 516-519 and 526-529 right now.

For this season the seats are assigned for the entire season (printed right onto the pass itself: sec 513, row 14). I'm not sure exactly which sections and rows they set aside for the promotion, but i think it was for 2000 seats.

[ginkster88]

For this season the seats are assigned for the entire season (printed right onto the pass itself: sec 513, row 14). I'm not sure exactly which sections and rows they set aside for the promotion, but i think it was for 2000 seats.

Ahhh no way, that's unreal.

I'll check it out for sure. I remember hearing that they stopped promoting it, but would let you buy it if you called.