It's amazing how rarely this comes up in our discussions. It often seems like TFC operates as if in a bubble, as if it doesn't matter what the other teams are doing. How can a team with such a dismal record over five seasons think it can dictate the play in any way?Originally Posted by Belfast_Boy
This is that old joke about the surgery being a success but the patient dying.
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spot on
i am not nearly ready to give up on winter and his plans
these guys are trying to bring decent football to toronto that was always the plan --- it dont happen overnight lets continue to support them and in the long term the success will be worth it
wow 2016 and things are looking up --- come on you reds lets go
Even Pep would be questioned. He would still have enough rope from his past successes that he wouldn't be fired over an 0-6 start, but if Barcelona ended up finishing 8th in La Liga for example, even Pep would have a tenuous grip on his job.
^ Exactly.
0-6 any manger any were should be questioned.
http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showth...-against-Siena
Just for the record, Italian supporters reacting just as I have always said Italian supporters would react.
Of course, I didn't want to complicate my post by saying the Old League 1, followed by the EPL, Scottish First division followed by the SPL. Seems like one has to be extremely exact or some people here jump all over you.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 04-23-2012 at 11:58 AM.
Yeah, like we played 'attractive' football, 'built from the back' and passed the ball really well but we lost.
Actually, someone who spouts wiki-facts and trivia to back up very divisive arguments really should be exact. Its ethical.
With moderator authority, some people might actual give more weight to your inaccuracies, and the next thing you know you have an army of posters spouting little falsehoods as fact and clogging up the truths of the debate.
The EPL and SPL are remarkably different entities than the old first divisions, and you're talking as if things back then were like they are now. Nobody who followed british football in the eighties would call Aberdeen 'minnows'
You want to debate with someone who actually watched Fergie's Aberdeen and saw the United team he inherited from Ron Atkinson, live. You'd better have done a little more research than you did. You cannot, on any day, at any time, compare Winter's coaching record with that of Fergie's prior to his appointment at Manchester United. You also cant disregard that Fergie achieved 2nd in Division One before the 89/90 season (that was pretty fucked up for everybody in english football
Now Toronto are minnows. Will the current coach do for us what Fergie did for Aberdeen?
Could the current coach have done for Aberdeen what Fergie did for Aberdeen?
Ask yourself that.
they new what they were doing. and new the likely consequences. the sent the message that they wanted to send. Are you telling me that the delije or grobari would not do the same?
Not to split hairs further but it was actually the Scottish Premier Division at the time. (which isn't the SPL). I saw fergies Aberdeen a number of times. I also saw his inherited Man U team in the mid 80s too. Very good teams.
^ At some point, there is little else a supporter feels that they can do. Juve did it the season before, now Juve is back in CL, winning Serie A, and I can tell you they are on the way to challenge for the CL title, in the next several years.
I am not for it or against it, it depends on the specific situation. But people were telling me that this is not what supporters do.
Except TFC isn't built from the back.
You figure that's where they would start first.
OK it maybe a bit too far. The Milan supporters would ask, but then the Carabinieri and Polizia would react with batons, I am not sure how the authorities allowed this. This would not be allowed at San Siro, by the authorities. They would clear the curva sud.
That's crazy talk.
I am surprised that it flew in Italy, the security presence must have been light, as they would not have expected trouble at the Genoa v Sienna match.
You are correct in what you say here, it was the Scottish Premier Division and Aberdeen was a fantastic team at the time. Calling them minnows is not at all accurate as they were consistently challenging Scotland's big two for a near ten year stretch, which is unprecidented in the history of that league.
The Manchester United of the 1980's contained some great players, but by and large they were a good cup team but nowhere near consistently good enough to compete for the league title. This is why Fergie was brought in, and of course to sort out the drinking culture they had in the dressing room at the time. As stated he finished in second in his second year in charge, two years later he won the FA Cup and kicked off two decades of success.
But back on to the point of my post, I think putting Fergie and Winter in the same sentence is absolutely ridiculous and I'm not sure why this was even brought up. It's apples and oranges.
Bringing Winter into this club and installing him as first team manager was an absolute gamble that may have always been doomed to failure. Despite his work with Ajax, he had never been in a charge of a first team squad, had little to no idea of what he was getting into here in the MLS, and has been trying to implement a system that simply will not work with the players at his disposal. He does not have what it takes to win in this league, and is too damn stubborn to adapt his tactics to get the results we badly need. It would be like asking my Thursday night beer league team to start playing ticki-tacka like Barcelona.
Is Winter the only problem at the club? Hell no! Anyone with a reasonable brain that follows Toronto sports knows that the problem is top down, and that the suits from MLSE have utterly no clue as to how to operate a successful sports team. But unfortunately we are likely stuck with Anselmi and his cronies for the foreseeable future, so why not change something that will have a more immediate effect and change the coach? Because I'm almost certain at this point that anyone could do a better job with this group than Winter.
Why don't you just give the facts as you see them without the personal attack? It might make more people hear your argument (including myself).
I'm not too proud to reconsider when someone gives well-reasoned arguments. Just ask Roogsy, it may have taken him a year, but I've come a lot closer to his viewpoint over that time.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 04-23-2012 at 12:41 PM.
Good maybe you can help. I just claimed that Gordon Strachan scored a great goal in that final, but when I watched on youtube it became obvious my memory is fuzzy too.
Can you remember the game where Strachan scored an incredible bicycle kick goal? I would like to watch that again.
honestly, this years toronto fc team has ruined my summer already.. being a college student thats really into soccer and watches at least 10 hours of soccer a week i was hoping to stay dedicated to this years team, enjoy the bmo stadium with some friends, celebrate and chant in sections 112-117.. but we've been sucked out of 5 games in a row and i feel that every penny spent on toronto fc is a total royal flush down the toilet..
i mean is it so hard to ask for a team that can produce some mediocre results? i'll give the boys credit for last game scoring two goals, i think lambe was player of the game thats going to work hard to shine in this league but as for the rest of the team there is nothing special..
i dont have much to do and all i wanted to do was support the local home team and now even that has been sucked out of me due to the losses, what a shame.. toronto is hopeless for major league sports and it brings a tear to my eye even as i type this
This is what happens when you start out with no ambition. Nobody set high expectations and six years later people are calling for mediocrity.
he crossed one in for Black to bicycle kick but it didnt go in...see about 18 secs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2tTz9kF6s0
My favourite is his advertising board jump attempt at 2min 50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8n55P43-ug
i give alot of credit to the people that keep going to the games and sing and chant regardless of the record, but i feel that i wont be joining in at least until htey get another win, what a shame too because whats better on summer's saturday than to go to the BMO field and watch some good footy.. they have to start playing good footy to attract the fans back, i think we have the players that are in play.. we just have to somehow attack down the midfield, maybe switch the formation.. and play more gelled..
Might have been a league match or an earlier European fixture.
well obviously above mediocrity is what i want but is it so hard to ask for a start of the season that is mediocre which means it can lead to the playoffs,,
NOTICE: Wager with STB: OVER 2 shots on goal in the First half wins a Pint at HT.
I'd cut barret and sign plata and koevs. What a friggen team we had then
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Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !