OK, have a go. What's wrong with TFC. The players? The coach? The fans? The ownership? All of the above?
OK, have a go. What's wrong with TFC. The players? The coach? The fans? The ownership? All of the above?
Were a better team with Frings pushing the tempo going forward.
I hate to say it, but the schedule doesn't get any easier from here. I think Winter's got 2-3 games tops to turn this thing around.
Que the Aaron Winter post game press conference "bad luck" comments.
Winter is clueless and needs to go right now. Anyone who thinks that this squad coached by even Preki or Cummins wouldn't have had at least three points in six games has got to be a bit delusional about this league. This loss was on Winter. I don't think there were any particularly poor performances from TFC players today. Winter is Cruyff 2.0. It's clear he can't win to save his life. Hire anybody. Or, you know, Paul Mariner could probably do a good job. Just get Winter out of Toronto asap.
I don't think you can just absolve all the players of blame. Morgan was poor. Can't cross... can't pass... misjudges balls... I love his physicality and speed but he's very raw. Frings and Kocic made a massive blunder on the first goal (that had nothing to do with Winter).
I'm not a fan of the 3-at-the-back though. That needs to stop.
Last edited by rocker; 04-21-2012 at 04:59 PM.
Yes, Winter had nothing to do with the first goal. But again, that could and has happened to much bigger and better clubs.
Morgan probably had the worst match of all the players, Plata second worst. But neither was any poorer than you would see from one or two players on any MLS team during any match.
My point isn't that the team is perfect. My point is that the management is killing the chances of a team that, under a reasonable formation and tactical plan for the league, would have taken points today, and perhaps in some of the other matches, and would be either in a playoff spot at the moment or at least not as far away from one.
Meh.......comparing coaches from different seasons and with different players in a league that changes so much year to year is a mugs game.
The biggest tactical mistake today was not playing Frings as DM.
But if you think any of those goals can be blamed on tactics, you're watching this game through a particular lens.
Are you serious? Did you see the third goal? And you're neglecting the much more important: most of Chicago's threat and possession came from balls they took to a basically empty Toronto half because there was no real
and you're putting too much credence in the idea that the MLS is all that fluid tactically. It's no accident that people like Kinnear, Schmid, Yallop, Kreis, Vermes, Arena, and Nicol are/have had sustained and significant success.
Aren't these two points connected? You don't think Frings should have been in the position he was and that led to a goal - is that the tatics or the player?
Anyway, issues with this team seem to be more than a guy here or there. Winter may or may not be a good coach but there's nothing special about him and he's clearly not getting the most of this team. It may not be fair to fire him but it's probably not doing him any favours letting this go on much longer.
With all due respect, the sentiments regarding Winter's lack of tactical acumen in MLS go well beyond the goals allowed today.
TFC has a roster that should theoretically be a mid table club at the very least, yet the club is 0-6 with a goal differential of minus 9. I repeat, MINUS 9 in six fucking games.
If tactics aren't the issue, then I guess Winter is right in that TFC must have the worst luck of any club in the league.
EXCEPT, when you sit on here and watch the comments during a game, the second thing people yell and scream after a goal is now "WINTER's TACTICS SUCK!!!!" The goals don't relate to that but its what people yell. Thankfully, there was no "Bring back DeRo" but, hey, now we're replacing it with a mind numbing "Preki was better" conversation which given that the variables involved in winning right now in the MLS are vastly different then when he was here is pointless.
Tactics does not equal player personnel issues. We have no speed at the back. We lack MLS experience. Our forwards are trying too hard. We have one decent CD. We have unfit players. We have brought in several mistakes, again. We seem to be unable to maintain a lineup from game to game. Yes, a lot down to managing. BUT, people on here moan constantly about tactics when managing for success is FAR more then that. Goals are scored based on many things - those goals were scored because of a brain fart combination by two of what were until today our most reliables, a blown coverage, and a burst of pure speed.
Blame Winter's tactics for many things. But this knee jerk reaction lets both Mariner and players who should be taking responsibility off the hook.
Based on this game, I would say we played okay but we made couple mistakes and plus bad luck. But the team looked much better compare to last game. Play Frings in the mid for now on.
It's hard. Just .. hard, after six seasons of this. Same issues of poor motivation, poor tactics.
I have to say I'm now weighing towards getting rid of Winter. Hard to stay neutral anymore; too many of the same mistakes, lack of prep, lack of tactical adaption.
Snake bitten. That's all I can say.
How else can you describe falling behind after 25 FUCKING SECONDS INTO THE GAME, then after clawing back to take a lead for the first time this season give up a goal a minute later to lose the lead, then fall behind in the second half and finally throwing everything plus the kitchen sink at Chicago only to come up with nothing and finish with another loss to go 0-6, tied for the worst start in MLS history.
This club, and us supporters who follow this team, are fucking snake bitten. And we're dying from it.
The gods of soccer are using Toronto as their personal shitter.
TORONTO FC, 2017 MLS CHAMPIONS!!! (Still the greatest in league history!)
"The Fortress" officially becomes "The Abattoir" where hopes and dreams come to die.
2012 - The end of TFC
We need a CD.
We saw what can happen when we use Frings in the midfield.
Frankly, I'd rather have him in the midfield and have a bad player as the other CD.
Oh........and its still better a better team to watch then every other season we've had.
Friends of mine spotted some mlse directors in their box today, they appeared completely oblivious to the game, hardly watching at all, behaving much the same way they do in the Rogers centre when the leafs are playing. Unless this team is sold to a true soccer fan with money to back up his interest, this cub is only going to get worse, not better. Yes, I know, they spent money on the academy. Yes that is a good thing. That too is an asset, they can sell it to Danny Dichio, whatever. Soccer in this city is a lousy as hockey now....entertaining? Sure. They played better today, but so did Chicago. This is still a recipe for a record low mls win column....real question: Will this team win a game before the summer?
Fuck it. I'm gonna say it. We're all mugs. We've been fed this shite and been too scared to speak up for being seen as "non loyal" fans. Its awful. We are terrible, lack drive and care.
I for one won't be returning as long as this lasts. It costs an extortionate amount for absolutely no reward. If you want to, fine. Just realise you're feeding the MLSE and their distinct lack of management when it comes to any sports team.
My mate hit the nail on the head last year when he came over to visit. "You're a half-arsed team playing in front of a half full stadium, with half-talented players"
Simply not true. TFC does not really play any worse than the average 5th or 4th place Eastern Conference team going forward. The players are trying. I don't know why everyone is denying that.
They cannot be put out with those formations and those tactics and expected to succeed. With Harden and Maund as CBs with significant playing minutes, you could blame the players for letting in those goals. This game, you have got to blame the boss. This match was a crystalline summary of everything that is wrong with Winter. He is utterly clueless about how to manage in this league.
I'll be glad if he proves me wrong. But seriously, just get someone with a clue to manage the team. There is no excuse. All over the MLS there are teams with squads that are no better than us that are taking reasonable numbers of points. It's because their management is not stubbornly ignorant about the league even after a full season in charge.
On the plus side, TFC is still only six points out of a playoff position.
Fire Winter and they might have a chance.
Thank god the Euros are just around the corner.....perhaps TFC will manage a point by then