I don't think I want TFC in Champs League next year

[Shep]

Squad is too thin. We lose players on injury and fatigue effects the rest - it's even exhausting as a fan. Both Champs League and MLS play suffer from the overload of matches and travel.

I feel like an ass saying it, but we can't handle both right now, and really have never been able to.

I'm of the opinion that we would see some serious improvement and focus on the league next season if we fail to qualify this year. And we need it, we need at least one good year of improvement and results to keep this club alive.

Also, we don't really deserve the spot. It's the Champions League ffs, what are we champions of? A sucky little four club competition? I want to see us top of the league, real champions, a squad I feel good about singing for again. One good season of results in MLS, build the squad up some more, and then maybe we have a shot at both CCL and MLS success.


TFC 'till I die.

[trane]

Yes, we suck because we played in the Champions League. Because otherwise we would be just great.

[ManUtd4ever]

I don't think you have anything to worry about. At this rate, TFC will be hard pressed to even qualify for the CCL.

[Pinkie]

now that we've gone far in the CCL, I kinda want to see a playoff appearance this year (ha). and if that means not being the Champions League, then so be it.

[__wowza]

other teams have done both, for the end of last season we did too. unfortunately its a catch 22.

don garber needs to see clubs more competitive in the champions league to justify a roster cap increase (outside of inflation), but MLS teams have always struggled in the past because of this fact. it's like they need a team to pull of a miracle to justify a no-brainer. either way, the roster cap increase is going to depend wholeheartedly on whether or not other teams in the league can justify it financially.

unless you were talking about TFC not being able to do it in general, if thats the case then id have to disagree. we've played some of our most entertaining and hard fought games in the champions league. i enjoy seeing us there.

[Whoop]

I still value CCL over the league itself. Though the team should be making the playoffs as well.

Problem is to qualify for the CCL, it's through a small tournament when it should be you have to qualify through the league.

Either way, MLS teams aren't going to succeed in the CCL until the salary cap goes up which will allow teams to get better players or build more depth to compete with Mexican teams.

[prizby]

I want to be the first MLS team to win CCL...I want to stick to Garber and the Americans who feel their teams are more deserving and to the so called mls 'experts' (writers/staff) who always knock toronto

nothing would bring me greater joy than to be marching down yonge street next april with Garber in awe!

just my personal opinion

[Fort York Redcoat]

You want to eliminate distraction?

Meaningless Mid Season Friendlies

[Waggy]

I want us to miss the CCL this year as well, but for a different reason. I think the ownership and management uses CCL success as a crutch against league failure. "Well we haven't made the playoffs, but we've only missed the Champions League once and keep getting better results in it every year!" Plus, CCL games are freebies for MLSE. Players get paid a contract, not paid per game. So any extra (non MLS scheduled games), players essentially play for free (or small bonus'). Every home game is pure profit for MLSE, and they can blow me. I don't see us going farther than the semi-finals right now, so let's make the fucking playoffs for once, or at least miss both so MLSE will REALLY take a hit in the wallet, and maybe wake their asses up a bit. League failure with moderate CCL success is NOT acceptable. And that's what they've been hanging their hat on for 3.5 years

[Fort York Redcoat]

I want us to miss the CCL this year as well, but for a different reason. I think the ownership and management uses CCL success as a crutch against league failure. "Well we haven't made the playoffs, but we've only missed the Champions League once and keep getting better results in it every year!" Plus, CCL games are freebies for MLSE. Players get paid a contract, not paid per game. So any extra (non MLS scheduled games), players essentially play for free (or small bonus'). Every home game is pure profit for MLSE, and they can blow me. I don't see us going farther than the semi-finals right now, so let's make the fucking playoffs for once, or at least miss both so MLSE will REALLY take a hit in the wallet, and maybe wake their asses up a bit. League failure with moderate CCL success is NOT acceptable. And that's what they've been hanging their hat on for 3.5 years

Semi Final is not moderate success in my eyes and I prefer it to "going deep in the playoffs". As far as I'm concerned it's up to the team to realize that this year WAS lucky we got this far in the Champion League and to be consistent we will have to be a much better squad.

Use the League as practice for Champions League not the other way around. In the end I'd rather the respect at a regional, world level than the casual fan. We can't even agree on what's more important as a league champion, MLS cup or SS so making the playoffs isn't going to be my first priority- it's what happens when we get closer to winning the SS and are good enough to compete well into the champions league.

I'm not disagreeing with the crutch statement but I think that it's going to be a case of trading crutch for crutch. It will be up to us to decide wether we hear "At least we made the CCL." or "At least we made the playoffs." Take your pick.

[Oldtimer]

Vancouver will win the CCL this year, and Winter will say that he wants to win, but won't really mind Vancouver taking it. MLS playoffs is the real goal, and he knows it.

[BayernTFC]

I still value CCL over the league itself. Though the team should be making the playoffs as well.

I do to. I also prefer the more open and fluid style of Mexican and Central American squads to the cagier play I've become accustomed to seeing from the majority of MLS teams. Yes, the bar isn't set that high. MLS champion isn't awarded to the team who tops the table and there is no relegation. 10 out of 19 teams make the playoffs. TFC should be able to compete in a regional club tournament while managing to be a mid table squad.

Problem is to qualify for the CCL, it's through a small tournament when it should be you have to qualify through the league.

Yes. Qualification for CCL should come through winning a Canadian League title and an entry should also be given to the winner of a Canadian Cup competition. I understand that many here view the MLS as a NA league. To others, a shared league is a strange notion. MLS was established as a US league and some still view it as such.

[Greatest Ripoff]

CCL >>>>> MLS

MLS playoffs mean nothing to me. I get much more enjoyment playings the top teams in CONCACAF then I do playing teams like Kanas or New England.

[Waggy]

Making the semi finals is obviously a great success, but over our time in the CCL I'd say at best we have had moderate success. year 1 we didn't make it out of qualifying right? Year 2 didn't make it out of the group stage. And the new format for the CCL will make it MUCH harder for clubs to ride luck/momentum quite that far. Fort York, I totally agree about switching one crutch for another, but to me international competition is a bonus, something good clubs earn. I'd rather be a good club and see where we go then take an easy way to an international competition that requires beating 2.5 clubs. To me, if we're good enough to make the MLS playoffs, we'll be in a far better position to do well in the CCL. Look at Dallas, they did MLS final one year, CCL final the next. And that order makes PERFECT sense to me. Learn how to play well and win consistently in the league, then go off and carry the banner for country, association and league. Going CCL semi final to hopefully squeeking into the MLS playoffs for the first time just seems so odd to me. Is there a spot in any champions league anywhere that's as lightly contested as the Canadian CCL birth? Winning that should NOT be seen as any sort of accomplishment IMO. Not winning is FAR more of a failure than winning is a success

[Roogsy]

You want to eliminate distraction?

Meaningless Mid Season Friendlies

This...

[MartinUtd]

The CCL has been the most enjoyable part of my TFC experience thus far. I'd prefer not to miss it for what we *might* accomplish a few months later.

[BayernTFC]

I want us to miss the CCL this year as well, but for a different reason. I think the ownership and management uses CCL success as a crutch against league failure. "Well we haven't made the playoffs, but we've only missed the Champions League once and keep getting better results in it every year!" Plus, CCL games are freebies for MLSE. Players get paid a contract, not paid per game. So any extra (non MLS scheduled games), players essentially play for free (or small bonus'). Every home game is pure profit for MLSE, and they can blow me. I don't see us going farther than the semi-finals right now, so let's make the fucking playoffs for once, or at least miss both so MLSE will REALLY take a hit in the wallet, and maybe wake their asses up a bit. League failure with moderate CCL success is NOT acceptable. And that's what they've been hanging their hat on for 3.5 years

I don't understand these comments. You support TFC, but you want them to lose? In my opinion, if TFC fails to win the Canadian Championship and qualify for CCL, then that is letting management off the hook. TFC has been declared Canadian Champion 3 years running and the team made it all the way to the semi-finals in the previous CCL tournament. That's success and something to build on. Throwing in the towel now, just when the Canadian Championship is becoming more competitive, is a cop out. Losing to Montreal or Vancouver should never be acceptable, no matter the position in the MLS standings. Who cares about Chivas, Columbus, Portland or New England? The Amway Canadian Championship is growing and it has a prize of a CCL berth attached to it. Being called the Canadian Champion should be important.

I think it's possible to send a message to MLSE about your displeasure with TFC's MLS performance without hoping the team will lose in other competitions. Don't accept their excuses and vote with your wallet. Do players get paid extra for MLS playoff games? I agree that MLSE will take a hit profit wise if TFC misses out on CCL. CCL might even be better than MLS playoff revenue for them if TFC can make it to group play. TFC would also lose out on the exposure and the chances to improve the squad by failing to qualify for CCL. I'd be more worried about excuses from MLSE for not spending to improve the team if CCL is no longer in play and profits decrease. Does CCL play work as an attraction for players who might consider making the move to Toronto?

[trane]

^
Roogsy,

A-FUCKING-MEN. I give that the Povich 10000000000000001000000 % support.


I also agree with Bayern TFC.

[Waggy]

I don't understand these comments. You support TFC, but you want them to lose? In my opinion, if TFC fails to win the Canadian Championship and qualify for CCL, then that is letting management off the hook. TFC has been declared Canadian Champion 3 years running and the team made it all the way to the semi-finals in the previous CCL tournament. That's success and something to build on. Throwing in the towel now, just when the Canadian Championship is becoming more competitive, is a cop out. Losing to Montreal or Vancouver should never be acceptable, no matter the position in the MLS standings. Who cares about Chivas, Columbus, Portland or New England? The Amway Canadian Championship is growing and it has a prize of a CCL berth attached to it. Being called the Canadian Champion should be important.

I think it's possible to send a message to MLSE about your displeasure with TFC's MLS performance without hoping the team will lose in other competitions. Don't accept their excuses and vote with your wallet. Do players get paid extra for MLS playoff games? I agree that MLSE will take a hit profit wise if TFC misses out on CCL. CCL might even be better than MLS playoff revenue for them if TFC can make it to group play. TFC would also lose out on the exposure and the chances to improve the squad by failing to qualify for CCL. I'd be more worried about excuses from MLSE for not spending to improve the team if CCL is no longer in play and profits decrease. Does CCL play work as an attraction for players who might consider making the move to Toronto?

Believe me, I see where you're coming from completely. And I've been doing the wallet voting for a long time already (still rocking a year 1 jersey and scarf). It's not that I want them to lose, it's that I don't rate winning a 4 team tournament as nearly as worthwhile as a chance to win the league. I want to have as good a club as possible, and I think the CCL has become a sort of placebo for real success for the club. And I think the CCL has given TFC fans and management false hopes for a very long time. Hopefully not this time, but that story isn't written yet. I'd rather use the CCL games to test formations and young players, however far that takes us it takes us. I want to start winning some of the 34 games a year we play, instead of the bonus 5 or 6. Once we find a winning formula, then success in the CCL will follow. For years we've hoped CCL success would translate to the league, and it hasn't. At a certain point we have to try something different.

[BayernTFC]

Semi Final is not moderate success in my eyes and I prefer it to "going deep in the playoffs". As far as I'm concerned it's up to the team to realize that this year WAS lucky we got this far in the Champion League and to be consistent we will have to be a much better squad.

Use the League as practice for Champions League not the other way around. In the end I'd rather the respect at a regional, world level than the casual fan.

I wholeheartedly agree with your statements. I also believe that interest from the casual fan would likely increase after the added exposure and through gaining the respect of avid followers. Some of the best articles written about TFC and the nature of Canadian Soccer were written during the latest CCL run. I really liked seeing the Santos Laguna ad for the match in Torreon (posted in the pre-match thread), and felt it brought an added dimension to our club. To me, that's the kind of stuff that brings excitement and adds to the fun of following a team.

I'm not disagreeing with the crutch statement but I think that it's going to be a case of trading crutch for crutch. It will be up to us to decide wether we hear "At least we made the CCL." or "At least we made the playoffs." Take your pick.

Excellent point.

[BayernTFC]

Believe me, I see where you're coming from completely. And I've been doing the wallet voting for a long time already (still rocking a year 1 jersey and scarf). It's not that I want them to lose, it's that I don't rate winning a 4 team tournament as nearly as worthwhile as a chance to win the league. I want to have as good a club as possible, and I think the CCL has become a sort of placebo for real success for the club. And I think the CCL has given TFC fans and management false hopes for a very long time. Hopefully not this time, but that story isn't written yet. I'd rather use the CCL games to test formations and young players, however far that takes us it takes us. I want to start winning some of the 34 games a year we play, instead of the bonus 5 or 6. Once we find a winning formula, then success in the CCL will follow. For years we've hoped CCL success would translate to the league, and it hasn't. At a certain point we have to try something different.

LOL. Me too.

I understand where you are coming from. It's nice to have a place to vent frustrations too. Not everyone has the same preferences either. I want to see TFC competing harder and playing more consistently. I have been seeing improvements in areas. I certainly would rather watch TFC win as well. Expectations will differ from fan to fan.

[brad]

Semi Final is not moderate success in my eyes and I prefer it to "going deep in the playoffs". As far as I'm concerned it's up to the team to realize that this year WAS lucky we got this far in the Champion League and to be consistent we will have to be a much better squad.

Use the League as practice for Champions League not the other way around. In the end I'd rather the respect at a regional, world level than the casual fan. We can't even agree on what's more important as a league champion, MLS cup or SS so making the playoffs isn't going to be my first priority- it's what happens when we get closer to winning the SS and are good enough to compete well into the champions league.

I'm not disagreeing with the crutch statement but I think that it's going to be a case of trading crutch for crutch. It will be up to us to decide wether we hear "At least we made the CCL." or "At least we made the playoffs." Take your pick.

What is most important to this teams long term success is being competitive in the league, making the playoffs and having a good run in the playoffs consistentantly. This is what the casual fans want, not a deep run in the CCL. The casual fan is a North American sports fan that is what they are looking for. The casuals make up far more of the fan base than the supporters do, and they are dissapearing. With them, they will take their ticket money, the beer and food money they spend at BMO, the money the spend on merch and spend it elsewhere. Once that is gone, you can bet that big spending on the DP's that you need to succeed in the CL will also dry up...

[__wowza]

You want to eliminate distraction?
Meaningless Mid Season Friendlies

if i didn't know you, i'd swear you were new..
if i were an asshole id want frings/plata or cann to all go down with season ending injuries just to give MLSE something to fuckin think about.

[Waggy]

LOL. Me too.

I understand where you are coming from. It's nice to have a place to vent frustrations too. Not everyone has the same preferences either. I want to see TFC competing harder and playing more consistently. I have been seeing improvements in areas. I certainly would rather watch TFC win as well. Expectations will differ from fan to fan.

For sure, the thing we can all agree on? Wins and solid play. However it happens. As long as it starts happening sooner rather than later haha
(aside- good luck tomorrow)

[BayernTFC]

(aside- good luck tomorrow)

Danke.

[tfcleeds]

The league is your bread and butter. I don't understand why some people don't care about success in the league. As happy as I am that TFC made it as far as they did in the CCL, let's face it. It didn't take a whole lot for us to qualify in the first place winning a 4-team tournament, and the fact we even advanced from that is partially due to dumb luck (and forces of nature) whether we care to admit that or not. Yes, once we qualified, we had some great results as we progressed through the tournament, but any sustainable Cup-run will be due in part to some degree of luck. It's not a true measure in my opinion of how talented a team is. Look at Liverpool - they have been utter shite this season, yet could still have two Cups to show for it at the end of the day. Ask their fans what they would rather have - I bet most of them would happily trade it away for a Premier League title. I want our team to win the MLS Cup - to achieve that level of success requires a consistent great effort over the course of an entire season, not just here and there against clubs who are drawn out of hat.

[ensco]

Seems like a pointless debate to me. Who here could do anything other than root for TFC in any game?

[Fort York Redcoat]

The league is your bread and butter. I don't understand why some people don't care about success in the league. As happy as I am that TFC made it as far as they did in the CCL, let's face it. It didn't take a whole lot for us to qualify in the first place winning a 4-team tournament, and the fact we even advanced from that is partially due to dumb luck (and forces of nature) whether we care to admit that or not. Yes, once we qualified, we had some great results as we progressed through the tournament, but any sustainable Cup-run will be due in part to some degree of luck. It's not a true measure in my opinion of how talented a team is. Look at Liverpool - they have been utter shite this season, yet could still have two Cups to show for it at the end of the day. Ask their fans what they would rather have - I bet most of them would happily trade it away for a Premier League title. I want our team to win the MLS Cup - to achieve that level of success requires a consistent great effort over the course of an entire season, not just here and there against clubs who are drawn out of hat.

Premier League Championship does not equal MLS Cup. Besides the aim here was hoping to trade a real effort in CCL for a playoff spot. Not that enticing.

But to continue in your line of thought I listened all season to Scousers willing to trade cups for 4th(Europe spot). That's where it breaks down for us here: We're willing to call it success for a chance to compete against the same competition we face all year whereas there and elsewhere they'll forego a championship to compete in the region.

[BayernTFC]

The league is your bread and butter. I don't understand why some people don't care about success in the league.

I can't speak for everyone who feels this way but, for me and some others, the MLS is a US league. If TFC played in a Canadian league, then I'd have something to really care about. As long as TFC is in MLS, I'll be fine with competitive play provided it entertains.

Look at Liverpool - they have been utter shite this season, yet could still have two Cups to show for it at the end of the day. Ask their fans what they would rather have - I bet most of them would happily trade it away for a Premier League title. I want our team to win the MLS Cup - to achieve that level of success requires a consistent great effort over the course of an entire season, not just here and there against clubs who are drawn out of hat.

I don't think comparing TFC to Liverpool is apt or productive. Liverpool plays in a domestic league.

[ryan]

I want Van Shitty and the Limpact to never hoist a trophy until the end of time.

Sorry but no, we defend our trophy because it's fucking ours...they want it, but we won't let them have it.