What happens if...

[Waggy]

One other thought- I remember reading about the development of English stadiums over the past 30 years or so and one point I came across many times was that they were forced to increase their ticket prices to make the games an upper middle class event instead of a low middle or worse class event (which would bring violence/uncontrollable crowds and all that fun stuff from the 70s/80s in England). I remember thinking about that as TFC was increasing prices the first few years. I wonder if they priced their actual fans (and young adults who want to be fans) out of the stadium simply to try and preserve a family friendly environment (a CLASSIC mistake from MLS 1.0). Remember we were the first of MLS 2.0. It's very possible some of the same mistakes were made here that were in the older markets, that have been repaired in other cities.

As for a stadium upgrade, the phrase lipstick on a pig comes to mind. Jays fans packed Exhibition Stadium for years. As did Argos fans. And my vague recollection of that place was it was a toilet. I don't think shiny things and bright lights and fewer exposed beams would draw more people to come back. A solid product at a reasonable price will though, unless they completely burn all bridges here. Which is the big fear.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Pretty cavalier assessment, imho. It is the casuals in 2011 that first bought seasons and perhaps drank the kool-aid to renew in 2012. It is the casuals who backfilled most of the new season purchases in 2012. It is the casuals who have to pony up for the expensive tickets - it is the casuals who make this franchise viable. The revenue from the south end is trivial... It is the casuals who have saved the 2012 season from being a financial disaster...

Those casuals, as with many, many STHs before them will feel in 2013 that THEY WOULD BE STUPID TO RENEW. The euphoria of the 2007-08 games is not there - there is zero demand for the "hot ticket" - the product is potentially embarassing, they will realize that their tickets are cheaper on travelzoo and they, like many before them will feel like CHUMPS. As Roogsy so rightly states - even if a hail mary gets us into the playoffs, it will not substantially change the fate of the team. A place in the MLS finals will make a huge difference, but barring that - this team will be in severe decline next year on many fronts - season tickets, attendance, revenue, coaching, team personnel, concessions, tv contracts etc.

Perhaps Redcoat doesn't care about "the casuals" but I damn well do! Perhaps a drop to 10-12K in Season ticket holders doesn't seem worrisome - but do the math - who is going to shell out the $ for "Frings-like" players when guaranteed revenue has dropped by 5-10 million dollars? Meh - casuals - who the hell needs them anyway...

Tiberius I'm well aware what casual fans do for EVERY franchise in the world in various sports in varying quantities. I just literally can't worry about it since my efforts don't help that situation. Performance and marketing that fall to the club is where you hook the casual.

Believe me, I don't yearn for an all but empty stadium of just myself and a select few with like views. I think there is room for all and want a full stadium again.

[bigredoneNEE]

One other thought- I remember reading about the development of English stadiums over the past 30 years or so and one point I came across many times was that they were forced to increase their ticket prices to make the games an upper middle class event instead of a low middle or worse class event (which would bring violence/uncontrollable crowds and all that fun stuff from the 70s/80s in England). I remember thinking about that as TFC was increasing prices the first few years. I wonder if they priced their actual fans (and young adults who want to be fans) out of the stadium simply to try and preserve a family friendly environment (a CLASSIC mistake from MLS 1.0). Remember we were the first of MLS 2.0. It's very possible some of the same mistakes were made here that were in the older markets, that have been repaired in other cities.

As for a stadium upgrade, the phrase lipstick on a pig comes to mind. Jays fans packed Exhibition Stadium for years. As did Argos fans. And my vague recollection of that place was it was a toilet. I don't think shiny things and bright lights and fewer exposed beams would draw more people to come back. A solid product at a reasonable price will though, unless they completely burn all bridges here. Which is the big fear.

I'm not really sure they were consciously trying to price a certain demographic out of the stadium at all, but I do think that there pricing increases has had that effect. I remember back to the Townhall I attended, after Season Four, when we raised the issue of the pricing increases from season one and we were basically told that the team "underpriced themselves" in the first season. The front office was just bringing prices up to a level where they could do a better job of covering operating expenses and also turn a profit. My memory is a little bit hazy, but I believe it was something to that effect that they used to explain the price increases.

Personally I have always felt that they underestimated how successful the club was going to be, in terms of support and interest, in season one and decided from then on to correct that mistake by maximizing profits by capitolizing on the high demand. From a business perspective I don't blame them for trying this. However, as the team has fallen into the category of "another loser MLSE Toronto team" and raised prices a lot of that support has faded away and the club needs to work harder on and off the pitch to bring people back.

Let's face it, in the first two to three seasons fans came for the experience, and the relative low cost of tickets, but only consistent winning and a return to reasonable pricing will get people back into BMO now.