View Poll Results: Keep Winter or Scrap Him?

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  • Keep Him

    212 75.71%
  • Scrap Him

    68 24.29%
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  1. #1
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    Default Keep Winter or Scrap Him?

    No ratings here, no 1-5, just a straight yes/no.

    My $.02, we should keep him for two reasons.

    1. We said we would, and he said he needed 2 seasons before we saw results. I think that if we see more than 50% wins in the second half/third of the season we can say he has been successful, even if there are no playoffs.

    2. It will be SOOOO bad for morale if he goes and I don't think we would see a turnaround anyway, he can't do much more damage right now and if we take on a new manager at the end of the season we will have 2 or 3 DP spots open (If they don't fill JDG's spot it will be three) and a whole bunch of leeway to build a brand new team for 2013 anyway.

    And now... let the shit show begin anew!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky View Post
    No ratings here, no 1-5, just a straight yes/no.

    My $.02, we should keep him for two reasons.

    1. We said we would, and he said he needed 2 seasons before we saw results. I think that if we see more than 50% wins in the second half/third of the season we can say he has been successful, even if there are no playoffs.

    2. It will be SOOOO bad for morale if he goes and I don't think we would see a turnaround anyway, he can't do much more damage right now and if we take on a new manager at the end of the season we will have 2 or 3 DP spots open (If they don't fill JDG's spot it will be three) and a whole bunch of leeway to build a brand new team for 2013 anyway.

    And now... let the shit show begin anew!
    1 I think he should get till halfway through this season. With regards to your measure, if we go 3-5-9 and then say 9-3-5 are you just going to dismiss the first 17 games? if there is a turnaround it has to have us in contention for a play-off spot by midway.

    2. From what I've seen Winter going will just as likely increase morale, I think his popularity with the players is often overstated on here.

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    I believe he should be retained throughout this season and then evaluated. The only option I believe you have in replacing him, if they do see fit based on reports of a rift with Mariner is to bring Paul's good drinking buddy Steve Nichol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBlake View Post
    I believe he should be retained throughout this season and then evaluated. The only option I believe you have in replacing him, if they do see fit based on reports of a rift with Mariner is to bring Paul's good drinking buddy Steve Nichol.
    If Winter stays the season and we finish out of a playoff spot I hope this happens.

    That being said I don't see why we couldn't bring Nicol in now instead of wasting another season.

    The question I'd like to ask those that want him to stay is other than the distaste of having yet another coach...what reasons do you have for wanting him around?

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    Why is Nicol the answer?
    New England hasn't had it much better than us.
    Not trying to be a pain in the ass or anything, I'm just wondering why he would be a better fit?

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    Nicol couldn't win anything in 10 years with the Revs, why would you want him to run TFC?

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    4 MLSE Cup appearances working for arguably the cheapest team the league doesn't impress you?

    Let's apply this lofty standard with Winter shall we? What has he won as coach?

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    Too early for this poll. Come back in 4 or 5 games. Season's not lost yet.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    4 MLSE Cup appearances working for arguably the cheapest team the league doesn't impress you?

    Let's apply this lofty standard with Winter shall we? What has he won as coach?
    Wasn't that pretty much a different league? No DPs, fewer teams, all of them pretty cheap. As the league got better, NE got worse.

    On the other hand, maybe he's exactly what TFC needs, and also about the only guy who might come, TFC sure looks like a coach-killer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Too early for this poll. Come back in 4 or 5 games. Season's not lost yet.
    This has nothing to do with whether the season is lost or not, it has to do with sentiment towards Winter TODAY.

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    Firing Winter and bringing in Nichol would be the last straw for me. I'm not in the mood to watch dire route1 442 British hoofball at all. I already get enough of that with fucking Fat Sam at WHU

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    Wasn't that pretty much a different league? No DPs, fewer teams, all of them pretty cheap. As the league got better, NE got worse.

    On the other hand, maybe he's exactly what TFC needs, and also about the only guy who might come, TFC sure looks like a coach-killer.
    Which proves he can work with cheap players and make them effective. Isn't that part of our problem?

    Now, if you told me he's shown an inability to work with DP quality players I'd strike him off my wishlist. Is that the case?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    4 MLSE Cup appearances working for arguably the cheapest team the league doesn't impress you?

    Let's apply this lofty standard with Winter shall we? What has he won as coach?
    What has he won in 10 seasons? Um... he hasn't been around for 10 seasons. In one season he got us to the CONCACAF Semi-Finals, not saying that forgives everything but if we are going on accomplishments I think that is one that should be included if cup appearances are included.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blowing Bubbles View Post
    Firing Winter and bringing in Nichol would be the last straw for me. I'm not in the mood to watch dire route1 442 British hoofball at all. I already get enough of that with fucking Fat Sam at WHU
    Your choice I guess. I am more concerned with effectiveness and results.

    And I saw a whole lot of long-ball yesterday.
    Last edited by Roogsy; 04-15-2012 at 01:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky View Post
    This has nothing to do with whether the season is lost or not, it has to do with sentiment towards Winter TODAY.
    But it's not the time. This wouldn't be just a coaching change. To pick an example where an early season coaching change worked, this isn't the St Louis Blues, where the pieces are all in place, but they were off to a bad start.

    We know the pieces are not in place. So either this is a bad bump on the road (looking less likely by the game, but still very much a possibility) or WinterMariner can't do the job. In which case the time to fix it is May/June (ie before the summer transfer window) or the off season. In our case, given that we have hardly any (maybe zero) discovery signings left, even the summer probably makes no sense.

    Then layer on MLSE's need to do storytelling in September for SSH purposes, and you have your answer. If they bring in a new guy now, and he flails around for the rest of the season, what do you say during the renewal period....?

    The time to weigh in on this is late spring or summer. The players all come on here (read the Paul James book). It's just destabilizing to push this now.
    Last edited by ensco; 04-15-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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    Not his fault JDG is a shit player and Dunfield is scared of the ball. I heard he is trying to sign Javi Calleja of Osasuna after JDG's contract expires which would make our midfield 10x better. I would give him till the end of the season, i think when Frings returns it can be a turning point to our season and we start getting wins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blowing Bubbles View Post
    Firing Winter and bringing in Nichol would be the last straw for me. I'm not in the mood to watch dire route1 442 British hoofball at all. I already get enough of that with fucking Fat Sam at WHU
    No offense, but there ARE other teams to watch/support.

    I really like Italian Series A, I think the quality is second to none as most of the teams are good. <- No, I am not Italian, I just like the soccer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky View Post
    What has he won in 10 seasons? Um... he hasn't been around for 10 seasons. In one season he got us to the CONCACAF Semi-Finals, not saying that forgives everything but if we are going on accomplishments I think that is one that should be included if cup appearances are included.
    It might help if you do some research first.

    I'll put up Nicol's playoff record, US Open Cup and Superliga wins against Winter's NCC win (which he needed TWO kicks at the can) any day of the week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    But it's not the time. This wouldn't be just a coaching change. To pick an example where an early season coaching change worked, this isn't the St Louis Blues, where the pieces are all in place, but they were off to a bad start.

    We know the pieces are not in place. So either this is a bad bump on the road (looking less likely by the game, but still very much a possibility) or WinterMariner can't do the job. In which case the time to fix it is May/June (ie before the summer transfer window) or the off season. In our case, given that we have hardly any (maybe zero) discovery signings left, even the summer probably makes no sense.

    Then layer on MLSE's need to do storytelling in September for SSH purposes, and you have your answer. If they bring in a new guy now, and he flails around for the rest of the season, what do you say during the renewal period....?

    The time to weigh in on this is late spring or summer. The players all come on here (read the Paul James book). It's just destabilizing to push this now.
    But it's not as though MLSE or Anselmi are going to look at this and say 'well Lattes posted a poll and 70% of RPB say to get rid of Winter so let's give him the boot'

    Anyway, by the poll it seems to me that most people are of the 'keep him' camp anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    It might help if you do some research first.

    I'll put up Nicol's playoff record, US Open Cup and Superliga wins against Winter's NCC win (which he needed TWO kicks at the can) any day of the week.
    Haha I take your point but I care very little about every one of those tournaments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Haha I take your point but I care very little about every one of those tournaments.
    Also, if you include Voyageurs cup to making CCL semis Winter has had more accomplishments on a time weighted basis by far.

    I think the only real argument for Nicol is that if we DID fire Winter he would be the only one willing to come here.

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    just a reminder that death is certain and that everyone goes out covered in their own shit and piss

    with that in perspective, winter is ok

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Too early for this poll. Come back in 4 or 5 games. Season's not lost yet.
    The voice of reason.

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    I'm sorry but no.
    When we had John Carver working with cheap players, everyone cried out for DPs - "We need a DP if we want to make playoffs!"
    When Preki brought in a DPs and a bunch of hard working players, everyone cried out for no DPs - "JDG is shit, Mista is useless, etc etc"
    When we had turf, everyone asked for grass - "we can't win on turf" but the grass hasn't helped us that much either, when we're booting the ball in the air 24/7.
    When we had De Rosario, everyone said he was either the saviour of this team or he was selfish. Same with Maicon. Same with Chad Barrett.

    When Winter came, the consensus was that we would be a better team. That hasn't happened either. When he signed Frings and Koevermans, we all knew we were getting aging stars who would only be getting worse, a stopgap measure at best.

    Now, we need centerbacks. Will that solve our problems, when we don't score goals? Nope.
    So do we need forwards? Well then, how does that solve our defending.
    Do we need midfielders? Apparently so, since JDG and Dunfield aren't cutting it.

    The point I'm trying to make here is that we are so quick to ask for a change, and when it doesn't work out, ask for the opposite.

    We HAD cheap, MLS players at one point - that didn't work out. Now, we have international players, that isn't working either. So the idea that we need to get MLS players to be successful, is founded on what, exactly?

    I swear, the flip-flopping on this board is incredible. Every single decision goes challenged and when it doesn't work, the opposite is true. It's opposed for the sake of being opposed.

    Combined with an auto-hate button primed at all times towards MLSE who have NOTHING to do with our current failures (as tough as that is to hear), what are we asking for, exactly?

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    We didn't play all that poorly yesterday, we did have the ball for most of the first and second half. We had control of our own destiny yesterday, which I'd rather have than to be flat outright beat.
    The team wasn't horrible, they just made too many small mistakes and only 1 cost us dearly. Inthe grand scheme of the game, we weren't shit.

    Why don't we call for Winter's head in August when we have a clearer picture of where we stand?

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    I don't see how replacing him mid season will make matters better. Give him until October and if the writing is on the wall by then I should hope MLSE are at least two months into their search for a replacement.

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    This question is academic, Winter will resign before he is scrapped.

    Winter knows he's underperforming even if you guys dont.

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    Not entirely convinced anymore that hes teh man for the job but its way to early to scrap him and even if we did who would we replace him with?
    I want to give him the rest of the season although the start has got me really down, prob the most down ive ever been on this team.
    (on a sorta side note, itd be interesting to see if DeKlerk or Rongen would take over)

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    I think the team should take advantage of the young age DP rules and bring in some South American stars in the making. Players with lots of potential who will eventually move to greater things, but take TFC somewhere along the way.

 

 

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