Keep Winter or Scrap Him?

[Roogsy]

For what it's worth (and I'm going to feel like a moron even typing this) - a friend of an extended member of my family works for the team (shaddap, lol), and I was told that Winter isn't especially "popular" with the players. Which isn't to say they don't like him - just that he's kind of distant with them.

- Scott

I KNEW IT!!!


Anyways, that's the same kind of feeling I got.

In my opinion, you don't always have to be buddy, buddy with your boss. There are different manager/employee dynamics that do work.

But they all do have to be professionals and put in 100%. I have no reason to believe people are not trying here. The players seem truly dedicated to the cause, as is shown by the statements of support. That being said, the results show something is wrong. Someone has to make an analysis and figure it out, because another wasted year is going to do untold damage to the TFC brand in Toronto.

In my opinion, the fundamental problems at TFC is not effort or dedication, but skill. Skill on the part of the players and skill on the part of the manager. The players don't have the ability to play the way Winter wants and Winter does not have the ability to get the most out of these players.

[jabbronies]

But they all do have to be professionals and put in 100%. I have no reason to believe people are not trying here. The players seem truly dedicated to the cause, as is shown by the statements of support. That being said, the results show something is wrong. Someone has to make an analysis and figure it out, because another wasted year is going to do untold damage to the TFC brand in Toronto.

In my opinion, the fundamental problems at TFC is not effort or dedication, but skill. Skill on the part of the players and skill on the part of the manager. The players don't have the ability to play the way Winter wants and Winter does not have the ability to get the most out of these players.

Or Winter has gotten the most he can get from them at this point in time and now it's time to start making some changes to the roster to move to the next step.
Like any developmental process, there is always a stagnant period before the next step of evolution. Unfortunately this stagnant period happened right that the beginning of the season and is being capitalized on by our opponents.

Perhaps some players are tapped out in the potential category?

[Roogsy]

A roster of this quality, I would be absolutely shocked, SHOCKED if this is their entire potential.

This is what a $6million roster gets you? The biggest turnover in league history? No team has turned over as many players in this short a period of time. We are spending more than almost any team not named Galaxy or Red Bulls in the history of the league and that gets you last place quality players? You still need better ones?

Something has gone seriously wrong if that is the case.

There are hardly any "leftover" players from the previous TFC regime. These players are THIS regime's selection. If they haven't selected right so far...what exactly tells us they will be able to in the future? Who exactly isn't good enough?

[__wowza]

In an interview with Nana Attakora last year he thanked Winter for being a support to him during a difficult personal crisis.

adding to that, alan gordon criticized the medical team, not the coach, when he left for failing to diagnose the full extent of his injury.

[Shakes McQueen]

Or Winter has gotten the most he can get from them at this point in time and now it's time to start making some changes to the roster to move to the next step.
Like any developmental process, there is always a stagnant period before the next step of evolution. Unfortunately this stagnant period happened right that the beginning of the season and is being capitalized on by our opponents.

Perhaps some players are tapped out in the potential category?

I suppose it's possible, but I suspect it's overly hopeful thinking. The disparity in our level of play between the CCL and league matches points to something else. I think it's a combination of poor luck, some uninspired play from players we should expect better from, and (yes) some questionable tactical decisions.

I don't think the season is lost yet, even with Winter at the helm, but things need to turn around immediately. If we continue to backslide, even compared to last season, someone needs to take responsibility for that with their job.

- Scott

[Canary10]

I think it's a decent team and we should be getting more than we are. At least three of those games max points were ours for the taking. I don't think we're actually playing that badly, we just need to get this monkey off our back and the points will come. But we can't wait forever for it either. The idea that the players can't play Winter's system is nonsense to me. They can play it. But the on-pitch organization needs to better. The issue I have with Winter is not that he's tactically inflexible, it's that he does too much tactical tinkering. I'd rather see him stick with 4-3-3 and his best 11 players playing the same position within it.

[ExiledRed]

adding to that, alan gordon criticized the medical team, not the coach, when he left for failing to diagnose the full extent of his injury.

Wasnt Alan also forced to carry the injury in a game because all the subs were used tactically and early?

[Phil]

Wasnt Alan also forced to carry the injury in a game because all the subs were used tactically and early?

He was upset about having the injury mis-diagnosed from his perspective. They cleared him to play and apparently he wasn't.

[Pookie]

He was upset about having the injury mis-diagnosed from his perspective. They cleared him to play and apparently he wasn't.

It really is ironic that Gordon lashed out when leaving. His best strike rate of his career came while in Toronto. Which is sort of a key variable for a striker.

[Ajax TFC]

It really is ironic that Gordon lashed out when leaving. His best strike rate of his career came while in Toronto. Which is sort of a key variable for a striker.

well, I guess it's kind of ironic, but he was lashing out at out shitty medical staff, not complaining about being used improperly. What I find ironic is Peterson bitching about how Winter played him out of position, but has zero football intelligence and got waved at the end of the season. Or Marosevic who comes here as a free agent (after playing a total of four games for Dallas, and spending time on loan), goes on and on about the confidence that TFC has put in him, then decides that he's worth more money and leaves.

[ensco]

Can we please stop this fiction that Gordon's only issue with TFC was with the medical staff?

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showth...ghlight=gordon

[Beach_Red]

Can we please stop this fiction that Gordon's only issue with TFC was with the medical staff?

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showth...ghlight=gordon

Wow, what a blast from the past. that thread is almost word-for-word the discussion we're having today. Just change the players' names...

[denime]

Wow, what a blast from the past. that thread is almost word-for-word the discussion we're having today. Just change the players' names...

yeah,that's what we do the best

[Beach_Red]

yeah,that's what we do the best

It really is going to make it all that much better when we do have a winning team (starting tonight TFC wins 2-1). We have ceratinly paid our dues in this league .

[Roogsy]

yeah,that's what we do the best

When you don't learn from your past, you're likely to repeat it. The rehashing if topics and points is directly tied to that truth.

[ArmenJBX]

I think no other coach in our history would have gotten this kind of time.

[trane]

Or Winter has gotten the most he can get from them at this point in time and now it's time to start making some changes to the roster to move to the next step.
Like any developmental process, there is always a stagnant period before the next step of evolution. Unfortunately this stagnant period happened right that the beginning of the season and is being capitalized on by our opponents.

Perhaps some players are tapped out in the potential category?

You realy believe this? I understand you like Winter, but common this is not reality. His record speaks for itself.

[bigredone]

How do you think the players would vote if anonymously asked to aye or nay keeping Winter?

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Keep Winter. Changing now would be soooo wrong

[trane]

^ Why? Are we going for the perfect season? No wins, no points?

[Flipityflu]

^ Why? Are we going for the perfect season? No wins, no points?

yep, we are going for the 1st draft selection, because that will take us to the promised land.

[trane]

^Got it. What was I thinking?

[Just One Man]

Or Winter has gotten the most he can get from them at this point in time and now it's time to start making some changes to the roster to move to the next step.
Like any developmental process, there is always a stagnant period before the next step of evolution. Unfortunately this stagnant period happened right that the beginning of the season and is being capitalized on by our opponents.

Perhaps some players are tapped out in the potential category?

WTF? How do you think sports works?! So our current roster of players are what? Training wheels for Winter? And now that he has stumbled and bumbled his way to a horrible record with them, were supposed to let him turn the roster over again and assume he knows what he is doing now?

In all my life following professional sports, I dont think I have ever heard/read/seen somebody suggest that a coach with ZERO points had "gotten the most" out of his players.

Serious question, what kind of results would you need to see to believe Winter was 'not' getting the most out of his players? Call me crazy, but I a having a tough time envisioning a team with less than zero points (well unless we've got a Juventus situation, lol).

I am genuinely gobsmacked at your post. The coach has zero points and your rationale is that the head coach may have tapped out some of his player's potential?!

I don't mean to flame, but that is an insane position to hold.

[tfc2008]

How do you think the players would vote if anonymously asked to aye or nay keeping Winter?

Everyone gone say winter stay because the players know they are building a team but sorry guys open your eyes when you understand something about soccer.
this guy winter try to build something trainers before let come there friends in to play with Toronto 35 years off older 3 years injuired and more, this is something els young players and building. PAITENTS but nobody know this word in CANADA

[Just One Man]

Everyone gone say winter stay because the players know they are building a team but sorry guys open your eyes when you understand something about soccer.
this guy winter try to build something trainers before let come there friends in to play with Toronto 35 years off older 3 years injuired and more, this is something els young players and building. PAITENTS but nobody know this word in CANADA

Nobody in CANADA know a lot of those words.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Keep Winter. Changing now would be soooo wrong

oddly enough after wavering for a bit and thinking we need to change him im now in this camp.
Theres no logical reason in my mind outside of the fact that a) we dont need a 7th coach in as many years (less even) and b) i do see us making progression in the least obvious ways. Gonna catch flack for this and most likely hes gonna get fired and replaced but fuck it, im not trying to make friends on this.

[ExiledRed]

Nobody in CANADA know a lot of those words.

please post more frequently.

[ag futbol]

Everyone gone say winter stay because the players know they are building a team but sorry guys open your eyes when you understand something about soccer.
this guy winter try to build something trainers before let come there friends in to play with Toronto 35 years off older 3 years injuired and more, this is something els young players and building. PAITENTS but nobody know this word in CANADA

You just bought Aron Winter 5 additional games... on the condition you keep posting here

[bigredone]

Yes, Canadian teams (from Toronto) seem like they have geriatric patients playing. My patience for watching our patients is running thin.

[Couchy81]

Will firing Winter impact the Academy negatively in any way? The development plan for the youth players is important, almost more important than our results so far in league.