Keep Him
Scrap Him
Personally, I think Winter has another couple of games before he resigns "for personal reasons."
A couple of wins, and he'll be safe. 2 more losses, and he'll be gone.
The pressure on everyone associated with the first team (except for Anselmi, of course) will be intense. It wasn't supposed to happen this way.
Yes, this would be great. We can't accept losing to Montreal.Originally Posted by ExiledRed
Actually, I was on the "keep Winter, for the three years and see what happens camp" for most of last year, and into the start of this year. His dreadful results, poor tactics, loss of the dressing room and haev swayed me over to the other side.
Well, we basically have missed the playoffs, unless we expect that TFC are going to go from where we are today to one of the best teams in the league in the next month and perform that way for the rest of the season, which is what it is going to take.
My issue is that if TFC wait two more weeks to fire Winter, we could be out of the playoffs AND the CCL. Then its season over by MAY! TFC can't afford to wait that long, we need to fire Winter right now, and at least give ourselves a chance of qaulifying for the CCL. I don't want our season to be completely over by the second week of May, that would be shocking!
I am also of the mind that a coach that does not adhere to a tactical system that our current players are incapable of playing will get better results out of this team that Winter would. I don't think it would be enough to go back to make the playoffs, but maybe we could win some home games, stop being utter garbage, and maybe BMO becomes a bit more enjoyable for the rest of the season.
At this stage, let Rongen or Mariner have the reigns, it can't get any worse.
i think this one is screwed already. we need a system these players can work or new players that are capable of executing it.
but doesnt this sound like the same story we've been hearing for the past 6 years, my friend?
Agreed, if most of us were in charge we would seriously consider some kind of shake up, but corporate ownership is all about risk-mitigation.
There is risk in admitting that you made a mistake (yet again). Outside of the hardcore, the fans aren't rebelling (yet). From ML$E perspective, there are some attendance problems, but those seats are pre-sold for the season. As long as things can be turned by season-end around so that the club is seen as "making progress," the average non-SG SSH will renew. ML$E don't care as much about missed playoffs, yet, all their teams except for the Marlies have missed the playoffs.
From a corporate perspective, the risk of firing Winter is still higher than the risk of keeping him. Of course, hardcore fans see that something needs to be done, and usually the coach is the one who goes (although as Roogsy says, the problems run deeper than just the coach). It's sad to say, but the simple "solution" (firing Winter) might not solve anything.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 04-23-2012 at 12:08 PM.
we've been fed a lot of crap over the last 6 years. under these conditions any manager on any team would be questioned if not fired.
^ Maybe Anselmi can be convinced to resign.
The difference now though is that we actually have players for the right positions. In the past, we'd have no wide players, no creative central midfielders, and what would MoJo do? Bring in another central midfielder. Then we'd play one of those central mids out wide and wonder why we had no service into our misfiring forwards.
I do think we have a set of players that could perform better under a different, more familiar system.
I'll make a prediction now.
Winter will be fired close to the end of the season. townhalls will be set up and a lot of Kool-aid will be served to get us to buy again.
Totally 100% agreed!
People asking for a change make me laugh...
After all these years of having a revolving door there are calls to fire this guy?
Amazing that half the people on these boards aren't professional coaches with all their "knowledge and expertise".
*sigh*
We have a system - 4-3-3
What we need is a variation of that system or new players, specifically in midfield and defence.
I take it you are happy with TFC's results this season then?!
You are right it takes a professional football manager to go 0-6, or too realize that 0-6 is not good.
The wisdom of crowds, my friend.
The current coaches 'knowledge' and 'expertise' have been exposed as useless.
This coach walked into this league told all the players in it that they werent that good, and all the coaches that their methods were unsophisticated.
We are getting punished for his presence in our club. The rest of the league are out to prove him wrong and respond to his contempt, every single game!
They're laughing at him right now, and through him us. He's an embarassment.
Yes, may I spin that door one more time please?
Yup, that's exactly what I said.
Just curious, where did you pick up this 'reading between the lines' talent?
Look, you obviously know more than me, or a professional coach for that matter, so let's go with your idea and not give ours.
I'm just coming up with my answer to TFC's current problems - sack Winter and get another coach.
What other alternative do the "do not fire him" crowd suggest? Stick with him until we lose even more games and then are out of the CCL and have literally NOTHING to play for this season?
If somebody can come up with a justifiable reason why NOT to fire Winter, then please tell us? The guy has had OVER a season to produce results, and hasn't - how can anyone justify keeping the guy around longer????
A Ballet Dancer could see this coach is out of his depth and doomed to failure, no experience necessary.
Can anybody actually name a football manager who has kept his job after starting a season 0-6???? I don't think I can, I've been thinking about it all day and going thru stats! And I can see us being 0-7 after this weekend!
Correct...he's had just over a season.
You will agree he walked into a mess yes?
He had players he did not bring in, some of whom he got rid of, some of whom he might not exactly be able to.
With limited knowledge of the MLS, he played last season and if I am not mistaken...the team did well in the CCL right?
Now, barely the begining of the second season, with his best player out for a long stretch and a focus on CCL, we lost games in the MLS.
If he was given a contract that extends 1 year and 6 games, don't you think maybe...just maybe, it takes a bit longer to fix what he walked in here to fix?
How long before you want the next guy fired?
Let the man run out his contract and lets judge him by his whole body of work. We have never allowed any coach to prove their metal because we pull the trigger way too fast.
Winter's failure is not being able to transition from what is to what it should be, not that the strategic direction is wrong. If somebody came in tomorrow and inplemented a classic 4-4-2 long ball system, we'd be bitching that it was boring and not worth our time.
Winter didn't think he would have to have a transition phase. You put out the system and the players play the system. If the players aren't capable you replace them with ones that are. This is the way it is done around the world except for here. But we are here, so he has to accomodate. If he can't then there is no reason to stay. I am very VERY concerned that it is always seeming to come down to a player referendum on the coach. Absolutely no manager will be willing to work here under those circumstances. We might as well put in Dichio or one of the other assistants, somebody who at least knows the club.
I hear ya, still no reason to think he can't get the team to turn around.
If this ballet dancer falls during a performance, everyone can see it...can they do better? Can the back up dancer? Let her finish the show and judge her at the end of it.
I would be willing to give this coach the benefit of the doubt that his hands are tied because ownership paid a consultant for a plan and are insisting the coach not waver from it - but his consistent blaming of others for the team's problems make him impossble to get behind. He may be a soccer genius, but it doesn't take one to see he is no leader.
While a lot of people may snub their noses at the quality of MLS, until you find a coach who actually respects the quality of the league - and the improvement that it is making, you're not going to succeed.
If I was MLS I would be bringing in coaches right now to analyze the team and come up with a plan working with the current players available - while still keeping the progress with the academy - and the one with the best plan would get the job.
Problem is you would need a smart football man with the ability to analyze the various proposals to decide who is the right man for the job.
Yes, yes, stability is good but right now stability is going to sink this club for the next 3-5 years.
So who is the person you bring in?
There's a lot of people who want to fire Winter, but no solution after that.
Who steps up? Who can come in and review what we have? I guess Klinnsmen wasn't good enough. Who is available and ready to take the reins of the 4-3-3 system? A proven MLS coach who can take what we have a go with it?
The only person I see being mentioned is Rongen... is he really the solution or just another patch work solution to apease the mobs right now.
Last edited by jabbronies; 04-23-2012 at 12:57 PM.
i would scrap him, he's been here for two years and he's given us a horrible record both years.. why hold on to such a thing... its clear that somethings gotta change and the fans like me want it, so why not change the manager first, see how it goes, and then make player adjustments if they dont fit with the plan
Keep him. Hated watching TFC until he implemented new tactics. If you look at the replays most of the goals scored against Toronto have been individual mistakes not the system or the coach. Last game Kocic gave Frings the ball in a bad spot and Lambe lost his man on a free kick. Not the system or the coach's fault. Check the highlights of all the league games and most of goals are not caused by the system or the coach. The advantage of being a new fan is I haven't had to suffer for years and I can see a tremendous improvement. That being said it is still disappointing that they haven't got any points yet.
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