Here we go again, annual rant about defending.

[trane]

You must defend like a team. From front to back. We can blame individuals, Harden, JDG, Dunfield. But we are a poor defensive team, and until we decide that defending is JOB one for all our players. We will keep on being what we are, a team with potential that underachieves and despite flashes of relative brilliance consistently drops points.

We have decided to play 4-3-3. Fine, we are getting somewhat OK at the system, ( admittedly playing the CDM so deep at times that it looks like a 5-4-1) however, if Winter is serious, and i believe he is then he must come to the realization that as a whole we are a poor defensive team, and must instill game in game out that defense is job one for Danny K on. Tactically, Winter has made some decent adjustments lately, however, I think he needs to take another step and push his wingers back further, and make them play like a 4-2-3-1 ( not a 4-1-4-1 as we need to DMs to protect our CBs even if we have our "top" players). We have players, Avial, Plata Koevermans who can score on the counter and on limit opportunities.

He said after the interview that he will make chances, and I assume he meant some key ones. I hope to see them on Saturday. THE TIME IS NOW.

[Abou Sky]

Agreed, I posted the 5-3-2 formation in the Chivas thread but yours makes more sense.

I am thinking the changes that Winter was talking about had more to do with formation and style, maybe bringing in a new defender or two but nothing too crazy.

[ensco]

What's going on here is indefensible.

[Abou Sky]

This thread?

[trane]

^ Hey, I post what I think. I am starting to think as some time has passed between the last loss, that Winter has to redress and rethink the overall tactical approach, not that he is to blame for the individual lapses, but when you notice that you are a team that is prone to lapses, and you cannot address it fully by personal changes then you have to consider a more compact formation to minimize the problems, ( for example take away the space that is constantly there between the mids and the back line)

[T-boy]

For me, as always the buck stops with the coach. Winter has picked those players and picked the tactics for those players - blaming individuals for a team sport is wrong. Winter has to man up and admit that he's making mistakes, he needs to stop blaming other people and point fingers at himself for once!

[trane]

^ The bottom line is that as a manager he has the players he has, and he needs to make tactical changes to make sure he gets the most of the players he has, if he cannot do that, then someone else should be brought in.


We would all like to have Messi as 10, and Thiago Silva and Vidic as a CB pairing, but you have the players you have. As a manager you have to win with those. That is your job.

[burlington Red]

a 4-3-3 formation going forward is a 4-5-1 when you are defending. This style was notably used by Mourinho in his early spell at Chelsea. He always had wide men such as Robben, Duff who played either side of Drogba, but who dropped back to help out when defending. It is also worth noting that in that same Chelsea team, he had 2 defensive mids ie Makele and Essien alongwith an attacking one in Lampard. Obviously we cannot compare to players of that ilk, but we can certainly try and copy it. We don't currently play with an attacking midfielder, I believe Silva could fill that role. Plata is a player who is escaping criticism due to the amount of stick being levelled at Harden, Dunfield and JDG, but he is playing well below what we know he can do.Our wide attacking players are not getting back, leaving us exposed especially when full backs get forward. We also lacking a creator in centre mid, both JDJ and Dunfield are both combatitive but they don't possess great passing ability, I think Dunfield esp is getting shown up in that regard. Again maybe Silva could be that man who links our defence to attack with his passing. We definetly are lacking pace in the back line. We need a sweeper type with pace to clean up behind our centre back. Forgot about Williams or Caan being that man, Caan is much to similiar to Harden and Williams to me isn't good enough at this stage.

[trane]

^ I agree, that is why I am hoping we will see such changes or at least similar ones. We need all 10 outfield players defending.

[[NBF]]

A 4-1-4-1 is what it looks like, but regardless its more like a 4-5-1 or 5-4-1 with a massive gap between the midfielders and Koevermans. To make it worse our "wingers" are not real wingers, because they can't cross worth shit, but you could also make the case that Koevermans has the mobility of a Danny Dichio.

--------------------------Kocic--------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------
Eckersley--------Harden--------Emory/Aceval------Morgan
---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------DeGuzman-----------------------
---------------------------------------------------------
----------------Dunfield-----------Johnson---------------
Soolsma---------xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx----------Plata
--------------xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-----------
----------xxxxxxxxxxxKoevermansxxxxxxxxxxxx-------
Note: the "x's" are the gulf between the midfield and Koevermans, and also pretty much where all those crosses towards him tend to land.

If we do go 4-2-3-1, we have to get better central midfielders or else risk losing possesion often, mainly because no matter who they put in at the centre midfielder they will be playing out of position and the lack of size really hampers their ability in this formation. What are our options DeGuzman, Dunfield, Avila, Silva, Stinson?

If they really wanna get adventurious they can go with a 4-3-2-1 with Johnson and Silva playing behind Koevermans and dropping the miniture ponies Plata and Dunfield. DeGuzman would still be in the lineup with Avila and possibly Eckersley or Stinson in the midfield.

------------------------Kocic------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
Henry---------Harden-----------Aceval--------Morgan
-----------------------------------------------------
--------Eckersley-------Avila------DeGuzman---------
-----------------------------------------------------
-------------Silva----------------Johnson------------
-----------------------------------------------------
---------------------Koevermans---------------------

[T-boy]

^^^^ Your assessment with the red x's is exactly right. The attackers need to get closer to each other and help each other out. If you keep losing the ball in the top third of the field, you are constantly putting your midfield and defense under pressure.

[iy12l]

A 4-1-4-1 is what it looks like, but regardless its more like a 4-5-1 or 5-4-1 with a massive gap between the midfielders and Koevermans. To make it worse our "wingers" are not real wingers, because they can't cross worth shit, but you could also make the case that Koevermans has the mobility of a Danny Dichio.

--------------------------Kocic--------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------
Eckersley--------Harden--------Emory/Aceval------Morgan
---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------DeGuzman-----------------------
---------------------------------------------------------
----------------Dunfield-----------Johnson---------------
Soolsma---------xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx----------Plata
--------------xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-----------
----------xxxxxxxxxxxKoevermansxxxxxxxxxxxx-------
Note: the "x's" are the gulf between the midfield and Koevermans, and also pretty much where all those crosses towards him tend to land.

If we do go 4-2-3-1, we have to get better central midfielders or else risk losing possesion often, mainly because no matter who they put in at the centre midfielder they will be playing out of position and the lack of size really hampers their ability in this formation. What are our options DeGuzman, Dunfield, Avila, Silva, Stinson?

If they really wanna get adventurious they can go with a 4-3-2-1 with Johnson and Silva playing behind Koevermans and dropping the miniture ponies Plata and Dunfield. DeGuzman would still be in the lineup with Avila and possibly Eckersley or Stinson in the midfield.

------------------------Kocic------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
Henry---------Harden-----------Aceval--------Morgan
-----------------------------------------------------
--------Eckersley-------Avila------DeGuzman---------
-----------------------------------------------------
-------------Silva----------------Johnson------------
-----------------------------------------------------
---------------------Koevermans---------------------

Why the hell would u still want Harden in the line-up and put Henry out of postion. Should be like
Kocic
Ecks-Henry-Aceval-Morgan
JDG
Silva-Avila
Soolsma-Koef-Johnson

[burlington Red]

I think Harden is going to find it really difficult to get any kind of rapport with TFC fans again. I think it is unfortunate, everyone knows what he is, a big strong defender who lacks pace and isn't comfortable with the ball at his feet. He needs to play with a quick defender who sweeps in behind him who is comfortbale with the ball at his feet. This same logic applies also to Cann, which is why most of us were perplexed that this obvious issue was not addressed over the off season.

[Brooker]

rabble rabble rabble