'General admittance' in Montreal away supporters section

[SCF1908]

Being drunk will only get you punished
Throwing smoke bombs will get the entire support punished.

See the difference?

Not really, I think you are picking and choosing your poison. Drunk fans en masse does bring sanctions that affect the entire support, you can look at the alcohol bans in Europe that happen regularly that have nothing to do with smoke bombs but with intoxicated individuals not having sound judgement. I am not saying don't be drunk, I really believe strongly in live and let live, it's simply a matter of me having an opinion and voicing it in a semi-civilized manner. But from where I stand it's hypocritical, it is in the RPB charter to follow all local laws, yet some are defending interpretations of the local laws, and we have someone who saw an RPB let a smoke bomb off anyway.

If you don't think intoxication brings restrictions, check out the 500 level alcohol rules for tonight's Jays game.

[Phil]

In regards to GA seating, Montreal FO was very clear this was not the case but apprently they could not execute the plan they wanted.

As for the rest of this thread, thanks to those that really show why people hate this forum!

[TOBOR !]

^^^ funny, i chant and jump and wave a flag, yet i still see most of the match.

there is a drastic gap between "fan" and "supporter", it's just too bad "fans" want to be in the supporters sections and feel it's the same thing.

it's the classic scientific conundrum... by the very act of observing and experiencing something you change the very nature of it.

[Abou Sky]

Not really, I think you are picking and choosing your poison. Drunk fans en masse does bring sanctions that affect the entire support, you can look at the alcohol bans in Europe that happen regularly that have nothing to do with smoke bombs but with intoxicated individuals not having sound judgement. I am not saying don't be drunk, I really believe strongly in live and let live, it's simply a matter of me having an opinion and voicing it in a semi-civilized manner. But from where I stand it's hypocritical, it is in the RPB charter to follow all local laws, yet some are defending interpretations of the local laws, and we have someone who saw an RPB let a smoke bomb off anyway.

If you don't think intoxication brings restrictions, check out the 500 level alcohol rules for tonight's Jays game.

I think if started to see regular fights at games because of booze a lot of people would support some kind of restrictions.

Smoke by default does affect those around it that don't want anything to do with it. Booze not as much.

I like smoke too, but I also think it is fair for people not to like it. If BMO was smarter about stuff they would have an area that was OK to have smoke in and it would be known 'if you are in 1xx there will be smoke at the front.'

As for naming a north american sport with smoke: MLS Soccer.

I am pretty damn Canadian mixed blood, the only LEAGUE I really follow is MLS.

[Oldtimer]

As for naming a north american sport with smoke: MLS Soccer.

It was never a part of the NASL (I'm old enough to know), so it's dishonest to make the claim that it isn't copied from European TV, and it somehow organically sprang up without foreign influence, which is what I was responding to.

[London]

It was never a part of the NASL (I'm old enough to know), so it's dishonest to make the claim that it isn't copied from European TV, and it somehow organically sprang up without foreign influence, which is what I was responding to.

ultra support is on the rise, there is no denying that, MLS's big clubs all have ultra style of support and they are the talk of the league,portland is considered the best in MLs and they are always using flares and smoke, they chant for 120 strong and are visual at any opportunity.

If i had a choice between ultra style and what toronto has, id take portlands set up any day

[Red Rat]

This topic will never see the end.
Honestly just do what ever makes you happy without telling people what to do with their lives.
We will see how long it will last

[SCF1908]

I think if started to see regular fights at games because of booze a lot of people would support some kind of restrictions.

Smoke by default does affect those around it that don't want anything to do with it. Booze not as much.

I like smoke too, but I also think it is fair for people not to like it. If BMO was smarter about stuff they would have an area that was OK to have smoke in and it would be known 'if you are in 1xx there will be smoke at the front.'

As for naming a north american sport with smoke: MLS Soccer.

I am pretty damn Canadian mixed blood, the only LEAGUE I really follow is MLS.

I just wonder if those that don't like smoke have been contacting the club asking them to knock off their pre-game festivities or if it is another matter of picking and choosing?

[Oldtimer]

^ It will end when one of the oultras gets perma-banned from MLS stadiums. Then people will wake up. It will happen.

[Phil]

I don't see a lot of comment about the actual topic. Last warning, if the discussion continues to be about whose support is better then prepare for closure.

[stuart.mac]

Not really, I think you are picking and choosing your poison. Drunk fans en masse does bring sanctions that affect the entire support, you can look at the alcohol bans in Europe that happen regularly that have nothing to do with smoke bombs but with intoxicated individuals not having sound judgement. I am not saying don't be drunk, I really believe strongly in live and let live, it's simply a matter of me having an opinion and voicing it in a semi-civilized manner. But from where I stand it's hypocritical, it is in the RPB charter to follow all local laws, yet some are defending interpretations of the local laws, and we have someone who saw an RPB let a smoke bomb off anyway.

If you don't think intoxication brings restrictions, check out the 500 level alcohol rules for tonight's Jays game.

Aye and if as many people at the games had smoke bombs that were drunk they would have been banned years and years ago. Obviously its each individual supporters responsibility to watch their own actions, when smoke bombs are released by 1 or 2 people, it can ruin it for everyone (not only bans, but people saying their clothing was burned, they couldn't breath, up to bans of flags and instruments).

You want to talk about alcohol bans, its not the fact that people are drunk in public (that you pointed out as the crime) but rather the actions that occur WHEN they are drunk, such as violence, harassment, vandalism.

But setting off smoke bombs, sober or not, happens and its going to lead to further bans. Its against the rules so why bother doing it if it will only continue to put sanctions on what support can bring to the game.


As for the General Admission, I think if you are in someones seat who WANTS to be there, move, if not enjoy the game. Bottom line is there IS a seat for a reason, if you find people nice enough to let you squeeze in up front with all the fun than great, if not than maybe try and get tickets closer to the front, but if people paid for those tickets they have every right to be there.

[Fort York Redcoat]

GENERAL ADMITTANCE.

I'm for it. It's unfortunate that Montreal felt they needed to keep tabs on everyone and assumed the worst.

It was pretty strange to see security dealing with the aisles so much but it seemed to work. Trying to enforce seat assignment was a lost cause with that much security. They needed much more to enforce that.

[SCF1908]

I don't see a lot of comment about the actual topic. Last warning, if the discussion continues to be about whose support is better then prepare for closure.

I have stated only that I like the use of smoke bombs and happen to respect the opinions of those who don't and many of them have put very good reasons as to why not here, I would hope that my views are not being seen as a commentary on who has the better support of the team, rather than a specific issue with a specific opinion. I am not questioning the support of those that disagree with me by any means.

[jabbronies]

ultra support is on the rise, there is no denying that, MLS's big clubs all have ultra style of support and they are the talk of the league,portland is considered the best in MLs and they are always using flares and smoke, they chant for 120 strong and are visual at any opportunity.

If i had a choice between ultra style and what toronto has, id take portlands set up any day

there seems to be a lot of people who are quiet familiar with the Portland setup.

Can someone explain how they are allowed to use Pyro in the stands without reprimand from the league/team?

[maninb]

Identify those who throw smoke bombs and BAN THEM FOR LIFE!!! These morons are gonna seriously injure somebody if they aren't stopped!

[TOBOR !]

I think the issue of General Admission and type of support are connected.

What is the benefit of GA ? For like-minded supporters to group together and strengthen their overall effect.

If Ultra-style supporters are grouped in twos and threes, and scattered around a section, you'll likely as not never have to worry about flares and smoke bombs again. There's nowhere to hide.

However, you might get a better overall support as 'pockets' of supporters who sing along with chants, etc, will help spread the experience throughout.

[ryan]

As for the General Admission, I think if you are in someones seat who WANTS to be there, move, if not enjoy the game. Bottom line is there IS a seat for a reason, if you find people nice enough to let you squeeze in up front with all the fun than great, if not than maybe try and get tickets closer to the front, but if people paid for those tickets they have every right to be there.

I'm okay with that sort of stance myself.

I had a rather annoying incident during CCL SF. I had 2 pairs split up but wanted to sit all 4 together. Found a row, i think it was 18, in 116 (both my pairs were in 116), with 3 seats open, 2 taken, then 3 seats open. I asked the mid 30's couple to move one over one way or the other...they sternly declined. Ok..wtf. So we split up and stood around them...but they got mad at us talking across them.

So they assumed we weren't meant to be there and grabbed the passerby security to demand he checks our seats. Matter of fact one of my pairs was the end of the row, but my other pair was...front row 116. So he took us down there and hoofed out two people to give us our seats. Since it was about 20 mins into the match, we looked like a couple arseholes showing up late for the match kicking people out the front row as if we're the ones being anal about seating.

Bloody annoying..nobody even ended up coming to take any of those other vacant seats in that row either.


They had every right to those seats, I'm not oblivious to that,...just don't get the "OMG THE VELVET ROPE" mentality some people have about seating though.

[Ageroo]

Well no clue who lit the flare/smoke or whatever and decided to throw it...but my buddy's brand new white CMNT jersey signed by Kara Lang was burnt all up because of the nonsense. Seems like others had issues as well.....I understand what those who are PRO flares/smoke feel that it brings....but when you hear people getting burnt clothing ruined is it worth it?

Until the league says it is ok to use the stuff I think it shouldn't be used. And if they ever do.....it has to be completely controlled. People can't just let it off every which way....that leads to the idiots lighting and throwing it and my buddy's shirt getting burned. Nobody wants that I am sure.

I am neither for or against those who love or hate it.......

As for your comment SCF1908 about the clubs use of smoke.....I could care less if it is used or not used. But there is a big difference with their smoke and smoke let off in our supporters section. The clubs smoke is controlled.....huge difference.

Again....I am really on neither side of the debate, just offering up my opinion.

[TOBOR !]

At the Skydome I was a single ticket in 117, right behind the drum, and I was able to get to my seat. Probably because I was early and I was a single ticket. I doubt I'd have been able to get there if I was a party of five (see what I did there ?) without causing a stink.

I did see some instances where people were displaced by the GA process, but none seemed overly put out. In fact, I think most tended not to employ GA behaviour. Many RPBs (it seemed to me) were scattered about 117 and over into 118. So, for the CCL SF at least, it didn't really work, or wasn't really evident.

[TOBOR !]

On one hand GA makes the inspired portion of fans find each other but as the smarty robot Tobor mentions the much smaller mass of these people unencumbered by "fans, not supporters" around them makes them far more identifiable which is a hindrance if one does not wish to be accountable for their actions.

yes. sort of... I think... (can I buy a comma ?).

[Fort York Redcoat]

yes. sort of... I think... (can I buy a comma ?).

Yeah. I'll start that from scratch. BRB

[jazzy]

You are right - my opinion means little... but it was not an opinion I was expressing. Been to about 20 or so away games and every one of them was GA. Thus, GA is what away games are. One guy complaining on a website is not likely going to change that.

let me get this straight; Pekduck does ALL the work negotiating for tickets, getting the amazing prices, dealing with stubborn administrations who don't really want or need to see us....and after selling individually and accounting for all the $,....for US, he specifically states theses tickets are not GA!,......but one fan, who contributes , what ?......decides what is best for him....priceless

[pekduck]

there seems to be a lot of people who are quiet familiar with the Portland setup.

Can someone explain how they are allowed to use Pyro in the stands without reprimand from the league/team?

in short: licensed pyro who are members of the sg, designated spots, safety apparatus present, previously agreed timing (i.e. goals), sanctioned by FO; still have frictions since sometimes the pyro is trigger happy, but it's all in good nature over the west, after all, they gotta keep portland weird =)

however, they own their section, we don't. they have portland fire codes, not toronto's. unless you move to portland and join TA and abid laws and regulations there, what's kosher in one city, is not in toronto or elsewhere

nothing wrong with want to be portland, but you gotta be in portland...

[tfcleeds]

Well no clue who lit the flare/smoke or whatever and decided to throw it...but my buddy's brand new white CMNT jersey signed by Kara Lang was burnt all up because of the nonsense. Seems like others had issues as well.....I understand what those who are PRO flares/smoke feel that it brings....but when you hear people getting burnt clothing ruined is it worth it?

The fact that the jersey got burned was bad enough. The fact it was signed by Kara Lang makes this offense especially grievous. Off with their heads (whoever threw the flare) I say.

[denime]

ultra support is on the rise, there is no denying that, MLS's big clubs all have ultra style of support and they are the talk of the league,portland is considered the best in MLs and they are always using flares and smoke, they chant for 120 strong and are visual at any opportunity.

If i had a choice between ultra style and what toronto has, id take portlands set up any day

No it's not,your passion and support for TFC is to be admired and one can only wish we have more supporters like that,however just because you do flares and smoke bombs you guys are not even U from Ultras.

To be Ultras is way of life,life that none of you have experienced here in N.America.You have to be ready to get "behind the bars" if it's needed physically hurt others,steal,smuggle stuff across the border and all other illegal things that will get you $$$ to finance banners,flares,trips,I doubt it any of you does that for the living,or to finance any TFC Support project.


If you want to do flares than you have to be ready to hold on them,like we do in Belgrade:




and once you do that and many other Ultra things you have to be ready to get 2-5 years behind the bars,guy in red jacket is Bogdanov the one who stopped the game in Genova between Serbia and Italy.




or like the leader of the Star's fan group "Ultra Boys", Marko Vuckovic Mare who was convicted in the First Instance Court to eight months in prison for inflicting serious bodily injury.




there you go 3 out of 4 in jail,that's what is called Ultra in "old Country"

You guys might look Ultras for Canadian/USA fan landscape,but in real life you are just passionate TFC supporters who go to work pay the bills and have no social problems or criminal records.

You all know that all 3 TFC major SG's do not support flares and smoke bombs and that's why some of you were kicked out from those SG's,some of you left on your own.
By doing what you guys did in Montreal will never unite all supporters and get us to the next level,it will only get worst.You guys need us more than we need you,you can't do nothing without RPB,U-sector and NEE,supporters are only strong when they have numbers,size matters when it comes to support,and you don't have it.

So how about we all chill out a bit with this Ultra nonsense and find the way to work together to get the best TFC support we can have it.

[London]

^^^ how about you learn something about me before you call me out on all this stuff.

do you know me, do you know what i do outside of TFC.

NO you do not, so dont' even start to tell me what i do or do not do.

Just because you say that I or my friends light smoke or flares saturday doesnt make it the truth.

[jaahuuu]

I was at my ticketed seat for the game, but I was there early enough that nobody else was there. I was standing with a few other people, one whose ticket was for the seat next to mine, one for a seat in the row infront of us and another somewhere in another section. Some people showed up later and wanted to sit in their tickets seats so the rest of us moved over/up/down so they could. It wasn't a big deal. That being said I've been to a few road games and have never before been at my ticketed seat, including the game at the Skydome. I was not at all shocked when this turned into GA, dispite being told that we would be required to stay at our ticketed seats, anybody that's been to an away game shouldn't have been shocked either.

It absolutely blows my mind that TFC supporters were showing up late to the O. This was the main reason that they traveled to another province (or country for some of us), what the hell was so important that they were late for the game?


I'm pissed that my jersey got ruined too, there was an incident with a Whopper at a Burger King on the 401 on the way home.

[Phil]

in short: licensed pyro who are members of the sg, designated spots, safety apparatus present, previously agreed timing (i.e. goals), sanctioned by FO; still have frictions since sometimes the pyro is trigger happy, but it's all in good nature over the west, after all, they gotta keep portland weird =)

however, they own their section, we don't. they have portland fire codes, not toronto's. unless you move to portland and join TA and abid laws and regulations there, what's kosher in one city, is not in toronto or elsewhere

nothing wrong with want to be portland, but you gotta be in portland...

Wow, we have to stop making sense here. People have to start looking at the situation here instead of wishing that they had someone else's benifits. We have a ton to be happy with and continue to improve upon but it seems a lot of people are caught up in envy and emulation instead of creativity and growth within our own rules.

It really comes off to me that some people will take issue with something no matter what. Can't have flares? we want them! Can't have GA? We want it!

[Furtado91]

Instead of flares could we just have like really bright neon sticks or something? sorry if it sounds stupid, but if we had a bunch of like red neon sticks during an evening game, I think it would look cool, and its a safer alternative. my point is if we really want to put on a show, there are always alternatives to showcasing our support for this team. Just my 2 cents im sure we could come up with some idea.

[TOBOR !]

^^^ how about you learn something about me before you call me out on all this stuff.

do you know me, do you know what i do outside of TFC.

NO you do not, so dont' even start to tell me what i do or do not do.

Just because you say that I or my friends light smoke or flares saturday doesnt make it the truth.

I don't think he's saying you lit the smoke bombs. I think he's saying you're not an Ultra as the term is typically understood around the world.

Can I coin 'Fauxltra' (pron. foal-tra) for such use ?