But it's almost 10% of our games!!@!@!@!!Originally Posted by Oldtimer
But 2 were at home!@!!@!#!#@!!
But we'll have to never lose again at home to make it now!!!@!@:!@!@! (apparently we can't win on the road, but somehow we goto the CCL semi's?)
I want a result in our next MLS match, not for the points, but for the nonsense to slow down around here.
Success in two competitions simultaneously is near impossible with the roster restrictions in MLS. And when you are close to the title in one you go for it. We are 3 games into a 34 game schedule in a competition that runs for another 8 months. You don't crown champions in the first month of a season in any league.
(not saying this last part about you leeds just in general)
I find it funny that the pre-Columbus thread had everyone saying to play all the reserves + Koevermans because they didn't care about the match and would rather rest players for Wednesday. Then the post match thread ripping the team for not getting a result.
For the most part I would agree here. We aren't as efficient in the final third as we were the 2nd half of last season. I don't think we are playing to Koevermans strengths right now. There are a lot of long, high balls being played to him right now and I don't think his strength is up in the air. Which is why we are seeing Ryan Johnson have so much success right now. Koevermans needs more balls at his feet.
ensco, thanks for helping me with that link. I'll concede that JFJ was asked to submit budgets, which doesn't seem too odd to me. He was a GM with no experience. I don't see where his actual decisions were challenged. Unless one is an owner/GM there is going to be someone to answer to. It was his team complete with several strange no trade clauses. That article doesn't do anything to convince me that Winter doesn't have full authority over TFC.
Anyone who thinks 0-3 is not a big deal is sleeping at the wheel. The upcoming game in Montreal is critical. 0-4 means we have to go 4-0 just to start over. It can't happen.
i'd like to point out that when RSL were in the champions league they took 12 points in their first 5 games of the season.
i'd also like to clarify that i agree with you wholeheartedly on that last part, i just didn't want to withhold that information because it didn't suit my argument.
Can you provide an article that says he does?
Spark, I don't want toplay that game. I don't have a link to tell you water is wet, I guess we can't confirm it. My point is that in roughly 15 years I have never read that Peddie or Anselmi are some sort of puppet GM. Guys like Pat Quinn never said that, or a coach who was pissed he was fired like Sam Mitchell, no ex player who could profit off such information. JFJ is saying he had to present things to present things to a board, but he doesn't say they ever told him 'no' on anything. No TFC player, past or present, has ever said that in a public forum, which is the only place that counts. I'll give Winter credit when we turn it around too, I don't think we're done yet. Enough said.
For some it's about results. For others it's about how much they drink and how fun it is at the games. To each their own I guess.
Quinn, Dryden and the MLSE board of directors were a soap opera for years with different factions fighting for control. Do you think the Leafs have the same management structure as the Red Wings? Why did Burke insist on being president as well as GM and not have to answer to anyone but the board? A very different role than JFJ had.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter because it is what it is and Winter needs to win under the circumstances he's got.
You mean you can't do both? How is caring about results mutually exclusive to having a few drinks and enjoying the games?
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
The statement is not meant to be mutually exclusive but to point out where people's priorities lie.
But my point is, having a one as a priority doesn't exclude the other. For example, you can put a priority on getting to bed on time every night and also put a priority on having clean shoes. They don't really depend on one another. Enjoying yourself at the game with friends and having a few drinks doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not you demand results from your team. There is always that moment of hope when the game is on, where you are arm in arm with your friends, singing and chanting for them to win. That is enjoyable. If they don't get the results, then you can, of course, pressure them, boo them or what have you.
Anyway, not a big deal, it just seemed like you're forcing a relationship between two points that aren't truly related. One doesn't preclude the other, though there are those who place less emphasis on one or the other of your points. Just like me, for example. I go to bed late and my shoes are dirty
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
You know what's the one thing that unifies the various points being debated in this thread? Being a team that players want to play for. I believe those are the teams that have players that play both attractive and winning football.
Are we a team that players who have a choice want to play for?
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
The truth is not just what is on the record. However, if you choose to ignore other valid sources, then so be it. Just don't expect people in the know to agree with you.
I think we're becoming one if we aren't already. This team has great support for such poor results, with great results it would be even better. The management is trying to make us as professional as they can be, I think that's very attractive to players...especially in a league still trying to find it's footing. Our system is geared towards skill, creativity and attractive football. I think players would prefer that than the physical direct play usually employed by clubs so far. I think that physical direct play has been a deterrent to players considering MLS as an option, and I think players who have decided to come and left within a 1-2 year span have decided to because of that as well.
I do believe that eventually MLS will transition into a more skill based league, especially if they continue to recruit their players from the South. I think in the end, should TFC continue on it's path, we will get our wins eventually and become a very strong club in the future. I think the teams that stick with the physical play will eventually begin to suffer as teams like TFC grow with a skill based system starting from the academy up. Our club will become more cohesive and in sync as the games, months, seasons continue. I think we're seeing now that you can't turn a physical direct side into a skill possession team in a short period of time, there are growing pains, but we're going to be ahead of the curve and look back at this and be glad we went through it now like RSL had to do.
So to give a more direct answer to your question and sum up what I believe is happening, yes I think Toronto is a choice destination for players. Fans, city, system are all seemingly an attractive package from what I see. We also have a pretty nice pitch and that's important to players as well. No fake shit.
This isn't about doing two things at once Jack. I can pat my head and chew gum at the same time as well and neither has a priority. My statement was more a reference to the tendency of some to dismiss the facts and reality of the team because it gets in the way of the good time. I almost feel like I am being spoken to by Stephen Colbert's character on TV and his disdain for truth and his preference for "truthiness". The truth is I don't come on this board to discuss whether I had a great time at the game. To me that comes from the results, not whether I've had overly expensive drinks at the stadium.But my point is, having a one as a priority doesn't exclude the other. For example, you can put a priority on getting to bed on time every night and also put a priority on having clean shoes. They don't really depend on one another. Enjoying yourself at the game with friends and having a few drinks doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not you demand results from your team. There is always that moment of hope when the game is on, where you are arm in arm with your friends, singing and chanting for them to win. That is enjoyable. If they don't get the results, then you can, of course, pressure them, boo them or what have you.
Anyway, not a big deal, it just seemed like you're forcing a relationship between two points that aren't truly related. One doesn't preclude the other, though there are those who place less emphasis on one or the other of your points. Just like me, for example. I go to bed late and my shoes are dirty
As for your examples about prioritizing, sorry bro but I don't see the logic there at all. You may not realize it but you do prioritize one action over another, depending on the circumstance. If you're going to bed, putting on clean shoes takes a backseat if it is at all considered. And if you're going out, putting on clean shoes takes a priority over going to bed which gets left until later. It is the immediate demands of circumstance that helps you prioritize and make one activity more important than another, but you do make one a priority over the other, make no mistake.
Much the same here, the cirucmstance depends on what the purpose of being a TFC fan is for us. For some of us, it's about pride in our city and having a winning team. For others, it's about having another venue to drink and be merry. I don't begrudge a person choosing one over the other, but don't shit in my mouth and call it a chocolate bar. It's deluded to believe that you can make both a priority at the same time. Much like in your example about enjoying good times at a game despite a poor result, by default that makes the result secondary to the good time. A person may choose to do that for whatever reason (to not ruin the experience, to avoid becoming depressed over a poor result or poor team) but the shift, while conscious or not is there, in order to enjoy the experience, you've decided to make it about the good time with friends. Fair enough. But the conclusion is that the result therefore takes 2nd place.
But some of us aren't built that way that's all. A different psychological profile perhaps but sports to me is about results and I derive the enjoyment from seeing success and failure annoys me, especially if I am paying for it. Drinking and merriment...well, I enjoy it at games but it's a far 2nd place and will always remain so.
I think we agree, I was just nit-picking your post for fun.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
My friends do that.
They make wild, incredible, provocative statements and when I angrily disagree they say:
PROVE IT.
I think they do it ito keep my busy for a while so they can mock me later...
surely you are aware that picking on Roogsy and get him all riled up is a wholesome fun for the entire family
My friends do that.
They make wild, incredible, provocative statements and when I angrily disagree they say:
PROVE IT.
I think they do it ito keep my busy for a while so they can mock me later...
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Ah...you all laugh at my expense. Bastards.
Hey, it worked. I got a semi-wall of text from him
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
Well, we're reading the same thing and seeing it differently.
Chris, I don't know if you were around here in 2009 and 2010, but if you were, I doubt you'd be so strident about insisting that interference by MLSE in TFC's on field ops is some sort of a fantasy or conspiracy theory. It wasn't Anselmi really, it was Beirne and Cochrane who were being fingered (and yes, we know, Cochrane is in the soccer ops department, but would he be there if Anselmi didn't insist?). We're not the only club in the world with this problem, far from it, but I just wouldn't take the position that it's ridiculous to assert that it happened. I don't want to identify the members involved who posted the details, they can do that for themselves, or perhaps its searchable ... but it was multiple people here, known to others, with personal links to the team, the broadcasters, the CSA and/or the OSA.
Last edited by ensco; 04-03-2012 at 11:45 AM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
The best highlight from this game isn't even in any of the packages, but it was easily when one of the columbus players was chasing after a ball with morgan around the 20th minute and went straight over the ad boards after running out of touch... Wheres the clip? Havent laughed that hard in a while!
And I wholeheartedly agree that it's way too early to throw in the towel just three games in. But I also think that if we somehow don't manage to get points in our next two games (against an expansion team and arguably the worst team in the Western Conference), alarm bells should definitely be ringing. We were supposed to turn the corner this year (and we may still) but losing to a shitty Columbus team at home isn't the greatest way of signalling we're going to achieve that. If we get results against Montreal and Chivas we can turn this around. But if we don't, and in September we find ourselves in a battle for the playoffs, and having to depend on other results, we'll sure be rueing those missed points.
Oh I'm not happy with 0 points either. Once the CCL is over we have to kick it up a notch in the league.
Going into both the San Jose and Columbus games I felt that TFC could and should win those games. To get nothing was disappointing for me too but we have been successful in the premier club competition in this region. I agree with you that we need to come out strong and get something out of our next two MLS matches though. No points after 5 matches with 4 of them against SJ, Crew, Mtl and Chivas would be a very poor start.
roogsy, remind them that the burden of proof relies on the accuser, not the accused. my favourite example:
My friends do that.
They make wild, incredible, provocative statements and when I angrily disagree they say:
PROVE IT.
1: i have a baseball
2: do you really?
1: yes!
2: can i see it?
1: sure!
1: i have a baseball
2: do you really?
1: yes!
2: can i see it?
1: YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT I DON'T HAVE A BASEBALL!!
Oh they're smarter than that.
They make wild statements that can be disproven, but that require me to make extensive research and provide elaborate explanations. I know they do it and yet I fall in the same trap every time. I am like a drug addict.
Good point. Has anyone examined the differences in the Maple Leaf's records while under JFJ and Burke?
John Ferguson Jr. 3.5 seasons (Aug. 29, 2003 - Jan. 22, 2008)
Year Record Points Playoffs
2003-04 45-24-10-3 103 Yes
2005-06 41-33-0-8 90 No
2006-07 40-31-0-11 91 No
2007-08 36-35-0-11 83 No
Brian Burke 4 seasons (Nov. 29, 2008 - Present)
Year Record Points Playoffs
2008-09 34-35-0-13 81 No
2009-10 30-38-0-14 74 No
2010-11 37-45-0-11 85 No
2011-12 34-36-0-9 77 No
I read somebody mentioning getting the ball to koevermans feet which I also agree with, and is exactly why your winger have to be able to break down defenses(draw players) and create space.
I also read somebody ask if we are a team top players want to play for and without my biased glasses on I say no. Simply for the fact that we dont win, our only saving grace imo is our top notch city.
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