Hey __wowza why is this thread so early?Originally Posted by __wowza
5 star
4 star
3 star
2 star
1 star
Hey __wowza why is this thread so early?
Columbus game doesn't matter for me because of CCL. I want him to commit max resources to CCL.
I voted 3, with the majority. Arms folded, but a smile on my face because of the CCL run.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
^^^ ... and I just read an article yesterday that a rebuild in any sport that involves changing the culture of a team should be given a minimum of 5 years, lol.
I don't mind you posting this _wowza. Somehow we need to find a happy medium between deciding too quickly and giving a Mo a "5 year plan" to mess things up.
Kreis took 3 years to fully rebuild RSL, and the team played like crap for almost 2 years, before just sneaking into the playoffs. Their supporters considered him an idiot for the longest time, and their board on BS looked very much like ours. I think giving Winter at least a year and a half before we judge is wise, if not longer.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 03-30-2012 at 09:06 AM.
^ You're stretching the Kreis story's timeline OT. Don't start that old fight again.
Changing the culture is a good idea - and it may very well take 5 years - but it's going to be tough for Winter to do it from the position of middle management on a three year contract. A real change in culture may need to start at the top, which it did for RSL - Kriess gets the credit, but he had an owner who supported him and knew what he wanted to do.
One could say there is a difference between the results and the coaches decisions.
Even though they did well in CCL, they still shit the bed in MLS and they did it pretty well. 2 ties and 1 win (5 goals for; 4 goals against) could be perceived as not good enough compared to 0-2 (1 goal for; 6 against). In total we have scored 6 and let in 10. We missed out on a W in the 89th minute of a CCL match, shut out of 1 mls game and had no chance in the other.
At the end of the day the CCl results were good, but the negatives of MLS and CCL far outweigh them
oh you can go eat rotten fruit from a shitty tree!!Hey __wowza why is this thread so early?
i knew someone was gonna do that!
^ You're stretching the Kreis story's timeline OT. Don't start that old fight again.
I think we're all in agreement that Winter will be judged by us this year. I wasn't saying that we should give him 5, or even 3 years. My own view is that 1-1/2 is enough of an indication to see if he's on the right track, with results by mid-year being the biggest part of judging him. I gave Mo 3 years before I called for his head, I'm not going to wait that long this time.
i definitely see the logic behind that however I have a prob with firing a coach and not having a decent and/or immediate back up.
I think we're all in agreement that Winter will be judged by us this year. I wasn't saying that we should give him 5, or even 3 years. My own view is that 1-1/2 is enough of an indication to see if he's on the right track, with results by mid-year being the biggest part of judging him. I gave Mo 3 years before I called for his head, I'm not going to wait that long this time.
Id be pissed if we fired him then bumbled along the rest of the season.
Of all the coaches we had he is definitely the best, but it doesn't mean hes good. He needs to work on tactics and teaching the team more off the ball movement. I hope he brings in more dutch players next transfer window.
New here and all, but gotta say this reeks of Toronto fans for everything.
Should we judge him this year? Yes.
Should we fire h
Grr... iPhone.
IMHO We shouldn't fire him until end of next season if we don't make the playoffs.
He has now mostly built a team, he has to coach them and finish building, we need to give him time to see his vision through.
A lot of the things people are commenting on are player faults not coaching faults.
Just my $.02...
I am not sure what "reeks" of anything. Almost 90% of the poll participants voted for 3 or higher and I am not sure anyone has mentioned firing him.
I would just hate to see TFC run like the Leafs where we change coaches every time things don't go great.
Seems to me when things "don't go great" is precisely a reason to fire a coach. I am not sure what other reason there would be. Nor how it's in the best interest of any sports club to keep a coach around that isn't producing successful results.
I'd also disagree with the portrayal of the Leafs being run that way. Considering the Ron Wilson saga, I would say it seems to be the opposite where much like with Mo, the Leafs took too long to get rid of someone they should have earlier, much less give him an extension like they did with Wilson.
There seems to be some sort of commonly accepted theory that changing coaches is a "bad" thing. From where I stand, it's hiring poor choices for coaches that should be frowned upon in the first place. And I have yet to see any evidence to prove that keeping a coach around longer after he's proven not to have the right stuff is good for the team, the fans or the club.
Last edited by Roogsy; 03-31-2012 at 01:12 AM.
2 Stars, the same rating i consistently gave him last year.
No brain???????
The TEAM has performed well, in my opinion, over the course of the month. Yes, they've had some problems on the counter-attack, and with scoring in the three league games, but overall they have impressed me.
Winter, on the other hand, continues to make mind-boggling decisions, and I always leave myself questioning his thought process. The players he starts, the subs he makes, his unwillingness to change tactics when they clearly aren't working. I don't know, it works against CCL competition, but it doesn't work in league play. It's odd.
If we were going by CCL, I'd give him a 4. By MLS, a 1. I'll give him a 2 in general.
I must be a really grumpy guy, but they haven's impressed me. The only way they've impressed me is that they are able to rise to the occassion in the big games. But this team is going to be judged on getting results that they NEED to get - winning the bread and butter league games, especially at home.
The next league game is against Montreal - they haven't won a game yet - and they are going to be super hungry to win this game. If we lose that one, and go 4 games with zero league points, I will be severely dissapointed!
One thing that has bothered me lately about Winter is his curious substitutions at times, a few times taking off Soolsma in games where he is playing well and where he was being a threat offensively and substituting him with a player who has no hope of providing anything in the offense. The game in Torreon verses Santo Laguna where he took off Plata when Plata was having a great game and put on the Bermudan player, we where down and needed to score,however, he takes off one of our main threats in that game, just puzzling moves he makes at times.
^ the subs i get a lot of the times. we've played 5 games in two weeks and we're rationing everyone.
i think this season is a shock to winter about the actual lack of depth we have. whereas in previous seasons, we've seen people like preki field the bteam in the CCL, winter has seemed like he believed we could perform in both the CCL and MLS respectively. his substitutions seem to reflect that. take off a player like plata and soolsma so theyre not completely outt've gas for the next game, of course, this comes at the expense of which we wanted more: the league or the champions league.
Two guesses that seem logical to me: he took off Soolsma in the game before last because, even though he was being effective out wide, that wasn't what Winter wanted from him. He wanted him cutting inside as well, and Soolsma's brain was stuck on the sideline.
He took off Plata for fatigue, because he wanted to take advantage of Lambe's speed late against a tired back.
Plata was effective twice... and scored twice. Does that mean he would have popped up in the right place again, or that he would've faded and not offered a broader game? I dunno. my instinct says a guy has scored two clutch goals, you leave him on and play the magic, not the odds. Soolsma in the first game was a tactical thing, to remind him to keep his head in the game. And he was our best player against Santos.
TACTICS (4/5)
I think that tactically, TFC has looked somewhat good. He has started a team that, on paper should be doing good. He has needed to make substitutions during various thinking of the next games. Tactically, he has done very well. His player selections have been good considering the crop he has to select. The team has suffered a major blow in not having Frings in there and Winter has selected the "best" option we have besides him.
RESULTS (3/5)
In terms of results, we got results in three games that a unbiased person would say we had no right in getting. We also had a loss against SJ Earthquakes and one to the Sounders. We went -4 in Goal differential. My rating would be alot less had we not gotten the results against LA and Santos.
The team needs to work on getting better results because for the most part, they do not explain the good tactics we display.
EFFICIENCY (4/5)
Again, Had it not been the injury to Frings, he would not have had to play the JDG/Dunfield combo that cost us a few games. I liked the positioning of the players and you can definitely see the tactics he is implementing. He has had to deal with a tough stretch of games and has had to juggle the lines to keep the players as fit as possible.
COMMUNICATION (1/5)
Not impressed by the lack of info in the media. We don't get as many updates on things like injuries that I think we should get. We also don't get as much insight into how the team is progressing (ie.: Training reports). I think that TFC should push media to run these stories or if there are no takers, run it themselves.
TRADES & MISC (2/5)
I think that the biggest problem that TFC has faced this season has not been shoring up our disastrous d from last season. Aceval is not the reason and who's to say that Cann and/or Williams will come back to their pre-injury forms? Had it not been for the signings of Plata and Ecks and the drafting of Silva, I would have scored this part as a 0
OVERALL (2.8/5)
It might be alittle early so I don't believe that the 3/5 is reflective of who the team really is. The players' leader (Frings) going down to injury has really shown a drop in confidence and leadership on the field. His play really hid the way that Aceval really plays (poorly). I think that once he is ready to go, we will see TFC start picking it up again.
I do think that the summer transfer window should be spent searching for a better option at CB. I really hope that this is focused on as I see it as being one of the biggest (if not the biggest) downfalls to the team
It's either we get rid of him now or later, because at this rate we will miss the playoffs again and have another joke of a season. We imrpoved in the second half of last season because of Frings, thats it, not because of Winter. Now that he's injured, were being exposed of how poor we are. Montreal an expansion team passes the ball better then us and it's going to 6 years now and we still suck at passing the ball around. We conceded a record number of goals last season in mls history, at this rate we'll break it, and on top of that we flat out can't score nm creating chances. With the players we have we should be doing better. Our academy team can play better than this
It seems Frings is the only reason we got better, Winter just happened to be the manager when Frings arrived.
At the end of last season I was of the opposite viewpoint to this, but now it seems there is more truth to it than I had hoped.
I rated a 3 for March due to the CCL run, and a solid game at home vs. Santos
So whats Winter's excuse this season? We kept most of our players so they should be used to each other. Yet expansion teams pass the ball and attack better than us.
His refusal to change formation is already a big problem. His substitutions is even more laughable. He just makes straight swaps, on top of that, he seems to have a habit of taking out our best players (like Plata against Santos). He also has a habit of changing defenders when we need a goal. What the hell goes through this guys mind? I never see him talk or give instructions to the players as well.
I hate getting rid of managers, but seriously lets not kid ourselves, this guy has to go now in order to possibly save this season. I honestly rather have Dasovic. At least he managed to get his team to attack and score goals with somebody's else's team
Serious consideration needs to be given to replace Winter. However, who is waiting in the wings to replace. Is there a better coach out there? If so we better get that coach lined up now. The coaching staff has had more then a year to solve our defensive issues and we are worse now and you can't blame it on injuries. The players they have brought in have been terrible.
I was one who thought Winter needed more time. Now I think he's had it and he's just shit. I can't blame this on Frings' absense, there's still 2 DPs on the pitch that should provide the "leadership" that Aron keeps alluding to. He has shit tactics, his team selection is shit. So many questions like,vWhy is Johnson playing no. 10 when you have 2 on the bench? Subbing Henry on as RB is a shit decision when they've put a bunch of time grooming Stinson there for the past year. Are we playing a possession game when we're only getting 35% against a fucking expansion team? I don't think it's personnel. We have decent fullbacks, we have a good set of wingers and no. 10s. We have a DP striker. Winter is the true scapegoat here.
Last edited by PopePouri; 04-07-2012 at 03:02 PM.
Winter has been lost since he started, with his pedigree I just don't understand how he see's the game.....tactics, personnel decisions, how can he be so blind to some of the players he keeps trotting out there at the expense of others......I just don't get it......but hey this is Toronto....back to the next five year re-build.....by the way scored him a 1....
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
