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Another couple losses and I think it might be time to let Winter go. Let's bear in mind he has no experience as a manager at the senior team level and it's showing. I'd give it to Rafael Carjabal. I think he could do a lot with the team and find some descent squad players.
I think he will get fired if he loses the next two. If were gonna get a new coach he should be dutch because we cant just throw away the dutch 4-3-3 they're trying to bring in.Originally Posted by UltraSuperMegaMo
^ Well, 4-3-3 isn't exactly working so I think it would be safe to cast a wider net. That said, I'm pretty sure Carjabal played 4-3-3 at Milltown. I'd be happy with the MLS's answer to big Sam, someone who can get a team to grind out results.
I can't see Winter's position being tenable if loses the next two home games. I assume they'd put Mariner or De Clerk, assuming they don't get fired too, in his place.
I agree that it's important to keep some derivative of the system we're working towards even if the guy on the top changes. I think what we're trying to achieve is doable but we need to be flexible about our vision. I think there is precisely one team in the world that can "play their game" and not worry about the other teams tactics. Otherwise, everyone else is using some mixture of how they want to play and how they have to play to get results.
It' a tough one. Is the advantage in continuity of management greater than the disadvantage of changing manager every year? I wouldn't be surprised if they kick Winter upstairs and hand the team over to someone else. We've tried the English coach, we've tried the coach with MLS experience in Preki, and now we've tried the European coach in Winter. What's left? Someone local or someone South American. Rafael Carjabal ticks both boxes.
The next two games should be telling.
Carjabal who are you guys, why him, what has he done? Look it's starting to become evident Winter is in over his head, not all great coaches were great players, yes Winter was a very good player,however, might not have it as a coach at this level. I think it might be time for Mariner's buddy that Nichol fellow.
Carjabal has been very a good coach at the local level. He's got all his badges and would promote local talent. Thinking inside the box hasn't exactly worked for the team so far, time try something a little innovative. I'd say Carjabal getting TFC is no more pie-in-the-sky than a youth team coach taking over at Inter Milan.
We need to be more flexible and play towards the strengths and away from the weaknesses of the players we do have - not blindly adhere to a system for the sake of the system. I'm all for instilling such a system in the fabric of the club and developing players in that mold. Hopefully it pays dividends in a decade from now when those players we are able to mold from the critical age up towards the first team (although we are dreaming if we think a whole first team of high quality players will materialize from our academy).
But trying to play the way we are with the players we have today isn't working. We need something that works with the player we have now.
Are you guys crazy!? Winter must be allowed to coach to the end of the season.PERIOD. No more coaching changes midway through!
^ Perhaps it is you who are crazy.
Seriously, I think he's got some rope left, but he's got to start winning games. Hypothetically, if he loses another four straight, do you really think he should stay until the end of the season?
As much as I want to hang Winter right now too, I think once we all get our blood pressure under control we will see TFCREDNWHITE is 100% right on this.
IMHO 'success' is 50+pts, playoffs or not.
Still 30 games in the MLS season, let's see what he can conjure up.
Oh, can we send Emory back to 'saved by the bell'? PLEASE?????
My 7 year old picks apart his game!
Yeah, the man who got the team to the semi-finals of the Champions League is a failure.
No, really.
I have a bridge for sale for anyone interested. All reasonable offers considered.
Winter must absolutely be given the duration of the season to determine his own fate. It would be counter productive to make a drastic change at the managerial level during the season.
And the man who has started the season 0-4 is a success, we're out of the CCL enjoy the memories but it's time to concentrate on the League
Before something can be counter productive there has to be something productive. Should we ride the fact that Dallas collapsed and we had a good game against LA for the rest of this season?
Though, I agree, changing coaches during the season would only work if there's a real possibility that a new coach could get more wins out of this roster - or out of a roster with just as many (but maybe different) holes in it. This is MLS, every team has a few players on the lower end of the pay scale who will make mistakes and some teams are better at dealing with that.
We'll get some injured players back and come up against teams with their own injury problems and we'll win some games this year. We may even flirt with the playoffs (depending on injuries), but can we really say this organization is building anything that can be sustained? We're still waiting for one of their town hall promises to be kept... The CB, the "best front office in MLS" and on and on...
You have to ask yourself if he has already accomplished more than all previous managers really. It's not like this club is built on a foundation of success. Having more managerial changes than Chelsea is not a recipe for success. So you have a manager who has accomplished getting to the semis, a first for Canada, and has essentially been on par with the other managers in the league. He said this would be a two year project. Give him his two years, he's a proper class act with an outstanding personal pedigree in the sport, something none of his predecessors had.
How can you say he's been on a par with other MLS managers when we finished 16th out of 18 last season and are 0-4 this! and I'll happily take a history of coaching success over pedigree any day. A season and a half is plenty of time to turn things around if we aren't challenging (and I mean actually challenging not just mathematically still alive) for a play-off spot by the road game against Philly Union on July 8th then he should go.
That was a typo, I meant OUR mangers. Obviously not all managers in the league hahahaha.
Nigel Reed threw out a statistic in his article today that I had not seen before.
6 wins in 38 MLS games.
I don't care if you did have to rebuild last year, that statistic is disgusting.
If he does not have a better month in April, my rating will most definitely drop.
A few things on here
1: all our other managers have been crap. Simply being better than past crap is not acceptable.
2: Winter keeps changing the target. At the start of last season, he was adamant that playoffs were the target last year. Then it was next year as a target. The three year plan from him wasn't to make the playoffs - its to win the whole thing.
3. In the supporters town hall last fall - I asked Winter directly if they would start the season as a competitive team or if we would still be in rebuild mode. His answer was we would be be ready and competitive at the first game. We are now 0-0-4 in the league, 1-2-5 overall. That is poor.
4. I do rate the CCL highly and give him credit there, but not at the expense of being crap in the league. We are setting the same pace as year one where we lost our first four and won the fifth - with less road game than year one. That is terrible.
That article is good and as it says, there aren't many options for roster changes. Certainly the team will be better when Frings comes back, and Cann, but it's almost strange that there haven't been any rumours about trouble in the front office. Is Paul Mariner still with TFC?Nigel Reed threw out a statistic in his article today that I had not seen before.
6 wins in 38 MLS games.
I don't care if you did have to rebuild last year, that statistic is disgusting.
If he does not have a better month in April, my rating will most definitely drop.
Really?? Holy shit that is bad.Nigel Reed threw out a statistic in his article today that I had not seen before.
6 wins in 38 MLS games.
I don't care if you did have to rebuild last year, that statistic is disgusting.
If he does not have a better month in April, my rating will most definitely drop.
Nigel Reed threw out a statistic in his article today that I had not seen before.
6 wins in 38 MLS games.
I don't care if you did have to rebuild last year, that statistic is disgusting.
If he does not have a better month in April, my rating will most definitely drop.
Coaches style, coaches players,coaches fault
since you put it like that.... Yikes! that's alarming. someone has lost the plot.Nigel Reed threw out a statistic in his article today that I had not seen before.
6 wins in 38 MLS games.
I don't care if you did have to rebuild last year, that statistic is disgusting.
If he does not have a better month in April, my rating will most definitely drop.
if we do worse in april i will add a 0* section just for youNigel Reed threw out a statistic in his article today that I had not seen before.
6 wins in 38 MLS games.
I don't care if you did have to rebuild last year, that statistic is disgusting.
If he does not have a better month in April, my rating will most definitely drop.
Sooo... Who would have thought a year ago that Cann would be the light at the end of the tunnel???
Wowza that is bad.
I did not vote, because I am caught between two and three. Clearly the results are lacking. Clearly we keep on making some key mistakes, on the defensive side of the ball particularly. But I honestly think that we have improved and keep on improving. Having said that Montreal is better then us, and this is year one for them. Why? Every year it seems that a team joins a league and becomes as competitive as we are seemingly right of the bat. That is frustrating. The back line is not good enough, and I am starting to think that under this management it may never be. We either cannot scout a good CB, or are looking for the wrong qualities in our CBs. However, I am not sure that this is all on Winter.
I was so hoping for continuity and stability. A long term management team to build and lead the team into the future...
But lets be honest, in North American sports the answer starting the season winless over a good chunk of games is usually the coach gets fired...
We need a run of positive results, and fast!
The night at the Dome and win over LA, plus Frings injury might buy Winter some time but we need results and fast!
"...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."
I think if we lose the Chivas and Fire games he will likely get the boot.
Would likely mean another losing season, and I think either way they SHOULD keep him until the end, even if it is a 0 win season.
Changing players is not so hard, changing coaches is very difficult on morale. It would be easier for him to change his style and start doing a 5-3-2 or 5-4-1 than it would be to change him.
He isn't stupid, he can change the way he plays the team if he wishes.
As for starting lineups, there are things we don't know about.
Eck has a tender hamstring. So he was subbed off (even I was going WTF??? at the game) maybe Emory had been really great the past few practices and he choked against MTL.
Not making excuses for him, he should be held accountable but he shouldn't be fired.
Interesting in Winter's post game he says "In the coming weeks, I will change some things..." :
http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2012/0...r-april-7-2012
He is confident things need to change and they will soon. Says trade deadline is too late to do it. Needs to happen now.
At the end of the dayI'm still ok with giving him a 3 start rating.
Last game was lost by Harden and Dunfields giveaways as well as the rest of the defense lack of urgency to fix the problem. Can't blame Winter for that IMO.
CCL was lost by our CB's and Deguzman. Again, I don't blame Winter for that.
Last edited by jabbronies; 04-09-2012 at 03:22 PM.
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