TFC in-season player movement thread

[Pookie]

I could be wrong about this, and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but Plata was still owned by Quito. So playing for TFC was actually his decision in the first place as, I would expect, having half his ownership dealt to Toronto. He could always have just stuck with Quito if he didn't want to be here (or if he was drafted by Columbus or some other long-ball playing team).

I think that the situation is pretty straightforward. The player wants to develop, as any aspiring 19-20 yr would. He isn't getting playing time here. The technical "guru" that was Aron Winter is no longer with the organization so he may have concluded that what he sees in training isn't really going to help him. Subjectively speaking, not to get any pro-Mariner folks' panties in a bunch. He was likely offered an opportunity to return home, with playing time, and jumped at it.

Sounds like Cochrane is suggesting that the paperwork...again with the paperwork... what is it with EC and paperwork.... is a hurdle given that he is being "loaned" back to the same team that sold him. Probably has a lot to do with the idea of a transfer fee being paid and then the player returning to the same team.

Plata isn't a turncoat. He isn't snubbing Toronto. He's simply looking out for his own development as each and every player on that team would do. They might reach different conclusions but not all of them are earning just $50k a year.

[T-boy]

I think that the situation is pretty straightforward. The player wants to develop, as any aspiring 19-20 yr would. He isn't getting playing time here. The technical "guru" that was Aron Winter is no longer with the organization so he may have concluded that what he sees in training isn't really going to help him. Subjectively speaking, not to get any pro-Mariner folks' panties in a bunch. He was likely offered an opportunity to return home, with playing time, and jumped at it.

Sounds like Cochrane is suggesting that the paperwork...again with the paperwork... what is it with EC and paperwork.... is a hurdle given that he is being "loaned" back to the same team that sold him. Probably has a lot to do with the idea of a transfer fee being paid and then the player returning to the same team.

Plata isn't a turncoat. He isn't snubbing Toronto. He's simply looking out for his own development as each and every player on that team would do. They might reach different conclusions but not all of them are earning just $50k a year.

So we think that this has ONLY all come about since Winter's departure? It sounds more like that this has been in the works BEFORE Winter left. Plata was dropped from the first team by Winter before Mariner took over. That's why I suspect something was going on while Winter was still here. So, I don't think there is much connection between Plata leaving now and Winter going, IMO.

[Pookie]

^ It sounds like he signed the contract about 4 months ago and sometime between now and then it soured. He signed knowing Winter's direction and his place on the roster.

As for being dropped from the starting 11, that's a disingenuous position. While true under Mariner, Plata's 638 minutes earned under Winter is still more than Silva, Hall and Soolsma. Further, under the 10 games in which he played for Winter, he started in 7 of them.

Not sure where that classifies as "in the works"

(Look, I want Mariner to do well too. Just be a little objective and we'll all get along fine)

[Pookie]

As for the Sportsnet article, anyone else see this as strange and hard to consider "plausible"?

"This isn't a sudden thing," (Earl Cochrane) said. "We've been having exploratory discussions regarding this and a potential loan for several months."

Taken at face value, we are to believe they entered

- months of renegotiations with his loaner club (2 months at least) to secure his buyout and release.
- reached a successful conclusion in Jan of 2012

.. And then started shopping him on Loan "for several months"

To recap, on January 10th, 2012 they stated:

"Re-signing Plata was a high priority for our club during the offseason. I have to compliment everyone involved for making this a reality. Plata wanted to remain in Toronto and we wanted to keep him. We know our fans will be happy with this announcement.”

Unless I need to repeat grade school math, I count six months at best between the time the ink is dry on his 2 year contract and now. In between, they were actively exploring loan options for him for several months???

How does that make any sense?

[ArmenJBX]

Why the freak out? I don't understand this.

It's a 6-month loan. Which means he comes back after 6 months. Which means we're loaning him out to grow.

This is not a big deal.

[Canary10]

Why the freak out? I don't understand this.

It's a 6-month loan. Which means he comes back after 6 months. Which means we're loaning him out to grow.

This is not a big deal.

We haven't gotten confirmation on that yet - from Cochrane's imitation of crisis media relations we heard that he could be traded, remember. A loan makes it more palatable for sure.

To a lot of less hard core fans, Plata leaving is a pretty big deal.

[Canary10]

So we think that this has ONLY all come about since Winter's departure? It sounds more like that this has been in the works BEFORE Winter left. Plata was dropped from the first team by Winter before Mariner took over. That's why I suspect something was going on while Winter was still here. So, I don't think there is much connection between Plata leaving now and Winter going, IMO.

I don't claim to know anything about internal personal relationships at TFC, but from my view I have absolutely no question that the change in direction is behind all this.

[Ajax TFC]

It now sounds like this has all been going on for much longer than Mariner has been head coach? I don't think any of this is Mariner's doing at all.

Plata was dropped as first 11 choice by Winter in April/May, so this could have been all going on for a little while now?

Nonsense. Here's the last two starting XI's from the Winter era. Try checking your facts next time before you start running your mouth off

The move may have been in the works for a long time, but that doesn't mean it started under Winter.

I was thinking about this over lunchtime!:

It's not as if Plata was signed with the club and Plata came knowing the system and formation. Plata was picked through the draft at a VERY low position. Plata was very lucky to be drafted at all, and in other seasons he would have been so LOW that he would have been on the supplementary draft or not on the draft at all! Plata was not originally purchased by TFC - he was offered as a draft loan player to the whole MLS league from his parent club.

So, now that Plata has got some reputation, he needs to take a reality check, if he thinks that he doesn't want to be here anymore as the "system doesn't suit him". It's NOT as though he knew the system here before he was picked in the draft. Plata could have easily been picked by any other team in the MLS and been playing any other system. TFC have put Plata's name on the map, not the other way around.

If Plata thinks that he can ONLY play for type of team, his whole career, that are playing technically superior, short passing football, then he really needs to get a grip! Every player needs to play different systems, and be able to adapt. Players who cannot do that, won't have a career and will fail (good example is Iro, good at the long ball in one team, horrible in the technical game in another team).

Plata was brought to the club as a draft player, not knowing if he would be successful or not. Other teams didn't want the guy (44th on the draft, I think? clearly other teams weren't interested!). He could have equally been signed by any of the other "kick and run" teams in the MLS, just missed out of the draft completely, or picked last (is that even being picked, that's a team who has no choice HAVING to pick the last draft number!).

If Plata was specifically scouted, and then purchased by TFC, then Plata would have every justification to throw a fit if the club changes direction. But that's not the case here. A Draft pick, at 44th, is a gamble, and he needs to realise that many other clubs turned him down. TFC gave him the opportunity, and he needs to stick it out, even with a new system.

Plata stayed here because he liked our style of play. He could have just stayed with LdQ but he came back and he said that he came back because he liked the team.

Plata was originally sent to MLS on a development loan

[Oranje]

Why the freak out? I don't understand this.

It's a 6-month loan. Which means he comes back after 6 months. Which means we're loaning him out to grow.

This is not a big deal.

Exactly, and back to the potential Canadian content; My money would be on Klukowski. They had an Italian/Canadian Left Back/Left Mid trailing (haven’t heard anything about that) and that is exactly what Kluks is. He only had 26 appearances due to injury on Manisaspor who were relegated to 1. Lig so I could see his contract having a relegation-release clause rendering him contract-less.

[spark]

Nonsense. Here's the last two starting XI's from the Winter era. Try checking your facts next time before you start running your mouth off

Agreed - there is nothing worse that blatantly making $hit up when it takes all of 5 seconds to determine if it's true or not. That post should be deleted.

[Darlofletch]

As for the Sportsnet article, anyone else see this as strange and hard to consider "plausible"?

"This isn't a sudden thing," (Earl Cochrane) said. "We've been having exploratory discussions regarding this and a potential loan for several months."

Taken at face value, we are to believe they entered

- months of renegotiations with his loaner club (2 months at least) to secure his buyout and release.
- reached a successful conclusion in Jan of 2012

.. And then started shopping him on Loan "for several months"

To recap, on January 10th, 2012 they stated:

"Re-signing Plata was a high priority for our club during the offseason. I have to compliment everyone involved for making this a reality. Plata wanted to remain in Toronto and we wanted to keep him. We know our fans will be happy with this announcement.”

Unless I need to repeat grade school math, I count six months at best between the time the ink is dry on his 2 year contract and now. In between, they were actively exploring loan options for him for several months???

How does that make any sense?

and let's say that that is all true, who exactly is the "we" that's been trying to pull this together. was winter involved and on board? I bloody hope so, and "we" wasn't just paul and earl planning for when mariner took over and changed formation.

[Richard]

Plata stayed here because he liked our style of play. He could have just stayed with LdQ but he came back and he said that he came back because he liked the team.

Plata was originally sent to MLS on a development loan

Makes me wonder why LDQ think MLS is a good development league, im fine with him going on loan and maybe when he is back he will be much better to play for us.

[cochrdoc]

I can`t believe all this whining about Plata.
He scored 3 goals in the league last year and has not produced much this season.He was not a starter with his team back home.The team is getting much better results with Mariner then Winter.Winter never changed his system and continually got clobbered.How many goals against did we give up under him and how many wins.Plata is not in Mariners plans.Time to move on.

[Pookie]

Why the freak out? I don't understand this.

It's a 6-month loan. Which means he comes back after 6 months. Which means we're loaning him out to grow.

This is not a big deal.

A loan is not a big deal.

HOWEVER:

- drafting a player and determining he is a key part of your future and then,

- negotiating with a team for his contract and then,

- signing him to a multi-year deal and then,

- paying a transfer fee equivalent to 20% of your salary cap for him (which is huge considering Henry and Marquez came for $0) and then,

- him taking an international roster spot and then,

- starting him in 7 of 10 games and then,

- apparently (someone or a group of someones) deciding several months after going through all of this, that you wish to loan him out (which I call bullshit on btw) and then,

- if that really did happen (he'd have to go to a nordic country or Japan given transfer windows) you'd have no international replacement available until July and then,

- deny he is leaving the club when everyone and their uncle knows he is leaving, and then

- bring up the idea of league discipline, which in itself is strange if everything is on the up and up, and then,

- try to say that it is just a regular deal but a complex one given the team involved was his former one and then,

.... we are just expected to sit back and think that it is a well oiled machine and we are making a big deal over nothing?

[jazzy]

Scouring the wiki pages, the only possible one I found is Ledgerwood. he looked as good as Johnson and can play multiple positions on the right side. Would be a good signing IMO. 27 years old bouncing around lower division Germany last few years.






On 12 July 2010, Ledgerwood signed a two-year contract with SV Wehen Wiesbaden.






From this June 18th article http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1589/...lett-linked-to

Nik Ledgerwood: The 27-year-old midfielder will be a free agent next month when his contract with German third division side SV Wehen Wiesbaden expires. He's said to be looking for a move back into the 2. Bundesliga.

and he basically played the whole game while Jackson sat because why?..third division????? we aim high don't we

[Fort York Redcoat]

Nonsense. Here's the last two starting XI's from the Winter era. Try checking your facts next time before you start running your mouth off

The move may have been in the works for a long time, but that doesn't mean it started under Winter.




Plata stayed here because he liked our style of play. He could have just stayed with LdQ but he came back and he said that he came back because he liked the team.

Plata was originally sent to MLS on a development loan

That's a touch harsh. I assume he's alluding to the fact that Plata was getting less time even with Winter. Regardless of why, Plata was not as successful in league play this season as he was last season. I can see his personality wanting more playing time. It may have been why his club offered him up to MLS for a price, It's even more probable that that is why he's going back.

Pook I see the the smoke and like yourself think there's fire. The reported timing of committing to, and shopping around, Plata is suspect.

In the end, I would have him back but I don't see Mariner wanting him back. Especially if the same amount of money is involved.

[David_Oliveira]

I personally am a fan of ledgerwood. I think he has a fantastic workrate and i think playing with frings would help him quite a bit

[T-boy]

Nonsense. Here's the last two starting XI's from the Winter era. Try checking your facts next time before you start running your mouth off

Next time I'll give a load of swear words and be violent and give personal attacks on various other posters, instead of trying to write an informed intellegent bit of writing about my argument, then.

[T-boy]

I can`t believe all this whining about Plata.
He scored 3 goals in the league last year and has not produced much this season.He was not a starter with his team back home.The team is getting much better results with Mariner then Winter.Winter never changed his system and continually got clobbered.How many goals against did we give up under him and how many wins.Plata is not in Mariners plans.Time to move on.

totally agreed. We certainly haven't needed the guy over the last few games! I would be picking Avila over Plata right now anyways. I would probably be picking Dunfield over him too, due to his workrate!

[__wowza]

Nonsense. Here's the last two starting XI's from the Winter era. Try checking your facts next time before you start running your mouth off

Next time I'll give a load of swear words and be violent and give personal attacks on various other posters, instead of trying to write an informed intellegent bit of writing about my argument, then.

oi, both of you relax. it's a transfer thread.
if you wanna go on the attack, then attack the post, not the poster.

[Ajax TFC]

Next time I'll give a load of swear words and be violent and give personal attacks on various other posters, instead of trying to write an informed intellegent bit of writing about my argument, then.

Or better yet, next time you could not make up facts to support your argument, and instead use actual facts. I'm sorry that I wasn't aware that writing facts that aren't real fell into the category of informed writing.
There were five matches in the month of April. Plata started the first four and was a sub in the fifth.
There were seven matches in the month of May. The first game, he sat on the bench. The next game, he came on at half time. He then started the next five games straight. I'd hardly call that being dropped from the starting XI as you claimed. If you want to make an argument around those three matches that he didn't start, then go ahead.
http://www.torontofc.ca/schedule <you can click "recap" to see the starting XI and subs

[Chinatownchef]

Ok, this is hypothetical, we all know that TFC did not have enough cap space to sign Nesta, by moving out Plata's salary for the short term perhaps trying to fit in a short-term space to fit the defender. Montreal apparently, seeing Toronto's jam, approaches Nesta for a deal. Wednesday July 4, we see Nesta in the Saputo stadium press box and the TSN announcer saying it is a as good as a "done deal". TFC is no doubt trying right now to maybe "recover" their asset in the use of Plata by maybe not allowing the loan to go through.

[T-boy]

Or better yet, next time you could not make up facts to support your argument, and instead use actual facts. I'm sorry that I wasn't aware that writing facts that aren't real fell into the category of informed writing.
There were five matches in the month of April. Plata started the first four and was a sub in the fifth.
There were seven matches in the month of May. The first game, he sat on the bench. The next game, he came on at half time. He then started the next five games straight. I'd hardly call that being dropped from the starting XI as you claimed. If you want to make an argument around those three matches that he didn't start, then go ahead.
http://www.torontofc.ca/schedule <you can click "recap" to see the starting XI and subs

Ok I'm sorry, I made up a load of crap and posted it. I'm very sorry if I caused offense to anybody. I'm clearly stupid and didn't realise that Plata didn't play every game in April. I have no right in being a footballer supporter or posting on this form, clearly.

[MartinUtd]

T-boy, give it a rest. So you were called out harshly for making things up, big deal. Take the lumps, learn from it, and keep the bullshit to a minimum next time.

[Yohan]

Ledgerwood will get tarred and feathered as Dunfield 2.0

I personally am a fan of ledgerwood. I think he has a fantastic workrate and i think playing with frings would help him quite a bit

[David_Oliveira]

Ledgerwood will get tarred and feathered as Dunfield 2.0

I agree with you and don't understand the heat dunfield gets. I mean its not his fault he is our best option right now. Its Fo people's fault we have no one better to play there

[ryan]

Ledgerwood will get tarred and feathered as Dunfield 2.0

I've been doing it to him via the CMNT for a couple years now, no need to stop if he comes here.

[maninb]

Ledgerwood will get tarred and feathered as Dunfield 2.0

Seriously...If anyone thinks that a mediocre German 3rd divison player will help us (or the CNMT for that matter) then they are beyond hope...imo..LOL!

[T-boy]

T-boy, give it a rest. So you were called out harshly for making things up, big deal. Take the lumps, learn from it, and keep the bullshit to a minimum next time.

The point I was making about Plata was that Winter WAS using him LESS so far at the start of this season compared to last season. When Plata was starting, he was being subbed early apart from two games where he stayed on the field. I looked up the games and stats, and the ones where Plata started, he was being subbed either around the 60 minute mark, or during one game subbed at half I think it was. Then Plata WAS dropped for a couple of games (he didn't start at home to DC, he didn't start away at RSL). So, he was hardly first on the team sheet and playing all game. He was being used less than last season, where he would start and finish most games.

But you can only get information from stats to a certain degree. Stats don't EVER tell the whole story. If you looked at every football game from an OPTA point of view only, then your view of the game would be horribly misjudged. We ALL agree Plata's form this season has been extremely patchy at BEST. None of us were surprised when Plata was dropped by Winter for a couple of games. So, doesn't this point to the direction that something MIGHT have been going on behind the scenes?: Plata's poor form - dropped a couple of times, subbed early in games, not scoring goals or looking anywhere near as dangerous as last season.

Stats only tell half the story of this. I'm not completely "making things up" or talking BS. I'm telling it how it has been and how quite a few of the people on this forum see it. I'm not the only one who has said that "plata wasn't being played as much as last season". And Plata WAS dropped from the starting 11 by Winter himself for a couple of games. If all was good and roses, why has Plata's form dropped and his uncle Winter dropped him and started subbing him after being ineffective in games?

[Greatest Ripoff]

I agree with you and don't understand the heat dunfield gets. I mean its not his fault he is our best option right now. Its Fo people's fault we have no one better to play there

Dunfield is a better option than De Guzman?