2.5 Million Canadians Watched Whitecaps vs. Impact

[Hitcho]

WOAH!

Wonder what the numbers will be like next month when TFC plays in Montreal?

Yeah - that's the big one, Toronto vs. Montreal. Biggest population counts (I think) in terms of cities and provinces, closer geographic rivals...

Always makes me sit up and take notice even in sports I don't really follow.

Oh wait, the Trillium Cup means Clown Bust are our biggest rivals...

[greatwhitenorf]

Mulder, the Whitcaps exceeded the Lions commercially BEFORE their first season began. Not after one year, before.

The CFL is toast because it has absolutely no impact on those who will form tomorrow's audiences in Canada's biggest markets. But soccer does and it commands an ever-growing audience. I've lived in Toronto all my life. I enjoyed the Argos when I was young, went to games, listened to radio broadcasts doing my homework. Hated Russ Jackson.

Me and my neighbours have teenage kids who put me in conversational contact with a fair few high school students every week as they pass in and out of our houses and yards. Over the years, I have never once heard any of them mention the CFL.

My sons and their pals couldn't name a single CFL player if the prize was free beer for a year, served by naked cheerleaders.

Same goes for the Raptors, but not necessarily the NBA. They frequently talk NHL and NFL and European soccer is on the front burner all the time. We see them wearing souvenir soccer shirts regularly.

And TFC? It's no shock to see some clad in merchandise and hear them debate about players, formations and tactics as ardently as they debate the game abroad. The girls are into it almost as much as the guys.

If we're watching a soccer game on TV - any game - and they happen to come in the door, it prompts them to gather 'round, watch and chat about the game. Maybe not for long, but they chip in their two cents worth. They wouldn't do it if they weren't interested, if soccer wasn't relevant. They tell me what their dads are watching or who they support.

Over 20 years on this inner-city street and not once has a neighbour ever asked me what I think of the Argos QB situation. Don't think one ever will, either.

I can see the CFL becoming a western-based, three-down league with franchises in Des Moines, Fargo, Boise and Coeur D'Alene. Innovatively cross-marketing itself with discount tickets for regional, tobacco-sponsored, tier-two rodeo circuits. You just know the commissioner someday will be Darren Dutchyshyn.

[Mulder]

Mulder, the Whitcaps exceeded the Lions commercially BEFORE their first season began. Not after one year, before.

Do you have proof of this? I have tons of friends in Vancouver who are fans leagues of both and say the Lions are more talked about than the Whitecaps. By what do you mean Commercially success before? prior to the announcement of joining the MLS? Or After? That Sir, is called 'hype'. I've seen complaints here of people 'upset' about the hype the CFL gets, yet there is a double standard when it happens towards MLS and it's ok?

The CFL is toast because it has absolutely no impact on those who will form tomorrow's audiences in Canada's biggest markets. But soccer does and it commands an ever-growing audience. I've lived in Toronto all my life. I enjoyed the Argos when I was young, went to games, listened to radio broadcasts doing my homework. Hated Russ Jackson.

Obviously you've never of how much CFL teams do for their communities, But when the leafs do their annually visit to sick kids, It's plastered all over the media. The CFL has shown no signs of being 'toast' in recent years with the exception of Toronto, but I suspect many season of boring defensive football may be the cause here.

Me and my neighbours have teenage kids who put me in conversational contact with a fair few high school students every week as they pass in and out of our houses and yards. Over the years, I have never once heard any of them mention the CFL.

This doesn't mean anything.

My sons and their pals couldn't name a single CFL player if the prize was free beer for a year, served by naked cheerleaders.

Name 3 players on Real Salt Lake, or Portland Timbers in 5 seconds, Go.
Even better, Try it with NFL teams. Any non-qb or running back. Most who are even hardcore fans can't do it.

Infact, I asked this question about the St Louis Blues to a co-worker, and there only able to name one of the goalies. Yet, they are first in the NHL. And he watches 5-6 NHL games a week, compared to me, I would be lucky to have watched that many this season. This issue is not unique to the CFL.

Same goes for the Raptors, but not necessarily the NBA. They frequently talk NHL and NFL and European soccer is on the front burner all the time. We see them wearing souvenir soccer shirts regularly.

Teenage Neighbours is not a very big demographic, infact I don't have any teenage neighbours.

And TFC? It's no shock to see some clad in merchandise and hear them debate about players, formations and tactics as ardently as they debate the game abroad. The girls are into it almost as much as the guys.

Your right, From my time living in Toronto I've found the city itself really doesn't have an identity of it's own, and is an extremely trendy city. When something else comes along the masses follow, I hope this doesn't happen to TFC.

If we're watching a soccer game on TV - any game - and they happen to come in the door, it prompts them to gather 'round, watch and chat about the game. Maybe not for long, but they chip in their two cents worth. They wouldn't do it if they weren't interested, if soccer wasn't relevant. They tell me what their dads are watching or who they support.

Small demographic.

Over 20 years on this inner-city street and not once has a neighbour ever asked me what I think of the Argos QB situation. Don't think one ever will, either.

Same as above, however how many people nowadays in the 'inner-city' were born in the city? Or even country? This goes back to what I said about Toronto or GTA lacking identity. While in Vancouver I was very interested to see how many different cultures came together to watch the lions, wearing the Orange jerseys, Asians, Indians, Pakistani, Australians, etc. Maybe the Argo's missed something on marketing? Blackouts of the 80's and early 90's? Lost Generation?
My wife put it like this "Im not sure what it is but, Vancouver has a way of turning immigrants into Vancouverites, and they integrate into the community and culture, while in Toronto they stay near their own culture. "

I can see the CFL becoming a western-based

Ontario Government certainly doesn't see it this way, why would they be investing in a CFL stadium in Hamilton? And other investors for Montreal and Ottawa? I've heard rumours of one behind the potential stadium in Halifax.

three-down league with franchises in Des Moines, Fargo, Boise and Coeur D'Alene. Innovatively cross-marketing itself with discount tickets for regional, tobacco-sponsored, tier-two rodeo circuits. You just know the commissioner someday will be Darren Dutchyshyn.

I'm not sure what your getting at with this comment, it's this type of anti-western non-sense quote the reason why the rest of the country hates Toronto.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Mulder, your scraping for attention for the CFL is painfully obvious and I don't care if it's on topic but I'm going to remind you you're on a footy site. Expect footy bias.

I too am somewhat curious as to the stats on MLS vs CFL when it comes to commercial viability. It's fast approaching that city by city, these initial pushes into Canadian sports markets can only take away from other areas. There's only so much sports dollar. What will be of more interest to you and your fellow fans, Mulder, is the long term that those of us go on about here. For years the CFL has survived in some areas while thrived in other markets. I think once things settle in for MLS in Canada the CFL's problem will turn into more people playing footy and more importantly the elusive couch potatoes that keep the CFL tv numbers dwarfing ours.

And if you take offense to the suggestion that MLS fans do while CFL fans watch please refer to the Canadian Golf and Curling TV numbers that dwarf both our audiences combined.

[Mulder]

Mulder, your scraping for attention for the CFL is painfully obvious and I don't care if it's on topic but I'm going to remind you you're on a footy site. Expect footy bias.

I fully expect a bias here, but I'm here to post somewhat of an outside perspective to the debate. Biased debates are no fun, they usually end up turning into a bash fest. I'm hoping opinions have the right to be questioned here. I'm by no means Anti-MLS or Anti-TFC. Infact, coming here and meeting lots of people from another supporters group has made me more of a fan. I read almost every thread. And I would probably get season tickets if driving 200km one way to Toronto 20+ times a year was feasible.

I too am somewhat curious as to the stats on MLS vs CFL when it comes to commercial viability. It's fast approaching that city by city, these initial pushes into Canadian sports markets can only take away from other areas. There's only so much sports dollar. What will be of more interest to you and your fellow fans, Mulder, is the long term that those of us go on about here. For years the CFL has survived in some areas while thrived in other markets. I think once things settle in for MLS in Canada the CFL's problem will turn into more people playing footy and more importantly the elusive couch potatoes that keep the CFL tv numbers dwarfing ours.

With the exception of Canada's NHL teams, Winning and entertaining product would have a huge affect on where the rest of the sports dollars go. Something I know for sure the Argo's have been lacking. :P

And if you take offense to the suggestion that MLS fans do while CFL fans watch please refer to the Canadian Golf and Curling TV numbers that dwarf both our audiences combined.

Yeah man! You know what gets me is Blue Jays ratings, over the past 4-5 years they've jumped 200+%. Now have better weekly numbers than the Red Sox and sometimes Yankee's. But I don't hear as much 'I watched the Jays game the other day' than I do other sports.

[dupont]

Your right, From my time living in Toronto I've found the city itself really doesn't have an identity of it's own, and is an extremely trendy city. When something else comes along the masses follow, I hope this doesn't happen to TFC.

So we have to listen to you talk trash about the city that I love and have lived in my entire life as having no culture or identity but you take offence to someone badmouthing the west? I don't think his anti-west stuff was good but to have you calling him out after trashing where we live seems off to me.

[Mulder]

So we have to listen to you talk trash about the city that I love and have lived in my entire life as having no culture or identity but you take offence to someone badmouthing the west? I don't think his anti-west stuff was good but to have you calling him out after trashing where we live seems off to me.

I wouldn't call it 'trashing' so much as an observation. I never said Toronto doesn't have 'culture' either, So I would respect that you don't put words in my mouth.

I am just speaking as to what some people have told me with regards to the 'trendy' comment, and my 'identity' comment was in reference as to how either immigrants or new Torontonians adapt to Toronto's Culture, and the fact that the City of Toronto and developers have recently and consistently destroyed Toronto's heritage buildings. I'm a Infrastructure and building nut, and the pathetic lack of respect for those buildings and how quick some come down or ignored is downright criminal. We only complain once their gone. Maybe that is Toronto's identity? Consisting removing/ignoring the old and replacing with new. But if a person did that we'd say he/she's having an identity crisis :P

[Carts]

Toronto has trends that people follow & stop following when not trendy... (Occupy movement)
Toronto also has deep rooted institutions that people will always follow... (there's a bunch)
Toronto loves a winner - Toronto rarely has a winner - therefor people jump all over a winner... (in sports)

Trends come and go... Winners come and go... Institutions last forever...

In sports, the only true, proven sports institution in Toronto is the Maple Leafs...
30-years of losing, extremely high ticket prices and merch, Leaf Nation is strong - sure there are cracks, but it is still massive and strong...

Jays are the best team in baseball = this is a baseball town during that time...
They stink - and attendance drops DRAMATICALLY and so does the trend factor...

Argos become a contender and champion - attendance rises - people get on the bandwagon...
Suddenly wearing an Argo item is a little trendy...
They suck - people stay away in droves...

Toronto - like anywhere - LOVES A WINNER, and to quote Jerry Seinfeld; "not that there's anything wrong with that"...

Other than the Maple Leafs, all of the sports teams will have their core (some large, some small), and when they're winners, a whole bunch will jump on the bandwagon and trendy thing to do by saying "...I always liked the 'insert team here' ya know..."

[dupont]

I wouldn't call it 'trashing' so much as an observation. I never said Toronto doesn't have 'culture' either, So I would respect that you don't put words in my mouth.

Fine, you can remove that one word from my post and my point was still the same. I only used it because I thought of the two things as being complimentary.

and the fact that the City of Toronto and developers have recently and consistently destroyed Toronto's heritage buildings. I'm a Infrastructure and building nut, and the pathetic lack of respect for those buildings and how quick some come down or ignored is downright criminal.

I'm also a building and infrastructure obsessed nut. Toronto has a huge problem with maintaining heritage structures but way more damage was done in the 60s than is happening today. However, there is still MUCH more work to be done improving this.
Toronto is far from the only city with this problem though. Did you ever see the building that was destroyed to build Madison Square Garden in New York? I don't think anything that has happened in Toronto can touch that total lack of respect for architecture or history.

Anyways, I don't really want to argue with you because you seem like a very intelligent guy. I'm just super passionate about my city.

[Blizzard]

Fine, you can remove that one word from my post and my point was still the same. I only used it because I thought of the two things as being complimentary.




I'm also a building and infrastructure obsessed nut. Toronto has a huge problem with maintaining heritage structures but way more damage was done in the 60s than is happening today. However, there is still MUCH more work to be done improving this.
Toronto is far from the only city with this problem though. Did you ever see the building that was destroyed to build Madison Square Garden in New York? I don't think anything that has happened in Toronto can touch that total lack of respect for architecture or history.

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