... but would you be happy if Canada merely participated in the Olympics, but didn't win anything? I wouldn't.Originally Posted by Whoop
... but would you be happy if Canada merely participated in the Olympics, but didn't win anything? I wouldn't.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
i feel the same
I'd be happy if there was a 'both' option...
I want them both to be successful...
Country over club. Particullalry when it comes to the MLS. Love TFC do not give a shit about the MLS. Now TFC winning the CLUB WC or the CONCAF CL that would mean something to me.
That's the thing. If we are talking 2014, or heck, even 2018 or even 2022, I'd rather see Canada in in the World Cup (if you had to choose - that's the point of the poll, not being able to choose both). However, what if Canada wasn't able to make it to the World Cup until say, 2034 or 2038? Just to have them there, and then shit the bed? Sorry, but I'd much rather see TFC win a championship between now and then.
That's a good point but I've never experienced that.
Having said that Canada is a small country in terms of soccer, unlike hockey.
If you're looking at bigger impact, success at the international (making it to the World Cup consistently) is the only way the game will grow so that one day when Canada does make it to the World Cup they don't get stomped. Looked at the States.
Again, as the question was phrased, which would I rather see, I'd rather see would be Canada go to the World Cup.
I mean if I live for another 60 years, that's about 16 World Cups.
16 MLS seasons takes us only to 2028. Odds are TFC could win 3-4 titles by 2028. By 2028, that's only 4 World Cups.
Not the same. TFC aren't playing to some sort of nationalistic pride - and I'd argue that the international nature of the squad reflects the city's demographics much more than a pretty strictly paper-based notion of citizenship that binds the CMNT.
And I'd also agree with the others. Having Canada just make the WC without winning anything doesn't turn my crank.
I think that at the present pace, we are on the pace to win exaclty 0 MLS cups by 2028.
But isn't the team playing for some sort of regional pride?
TFC winning MLS isn't going to make waves outside of the GTA, people in Vancouver, Montreal, for the most part aren't going to give a shit and likely just make snide comments about it.
I'm not sure where it all started (I think it's political? probably because I now despise the west for helping usher in this god forsaken government I have to be subjected to), but it is what it is. Our major cities don't want the others to succeed in any way shape or form.
So if TFC succeeds, it doesn't really reach outside of the GTA.
If Canada succeeds, and we're talking about international soccer not midrate at best MLS, then the whole country will catch on and ride the hype train to Brazil.
I would imagine the viewing audience for Canada's RR 2014 matches would be at least 10x TFC (or any Canadian club) in the MLS Cup.
This.
I voted TFC.
WC in and WC out, almost every time 2-3 weaker teams qualify from countries who rarely qualify to WC-s... which teams are kind of exotic spots there... Just to have a "meh" performance (expected?) in the groups.
What does that bring in the eyes of the international football loving community about that country's football? Not much really.
How much will increase the popularity of the sport in Canada if the team will qualify for the WC and will fizzle out in the group stage? I'm afraid not much.
I would've voted Canada if the choice would've been "Canada gets out from the group stages at the next WC".
World cup hands down
That's where I stand.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
WC
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"Just like JDG. It wasn't a post-and-in shot, but JDG is smart & experienced" - Carts
Absolutely. And they're committed to their team much more than the CMNT. They practice together, day in, day out, and they play together week after week after week (except of course when they're cut, traded, sold).
The point is that my connection to TFC for that reason will always be deeper than to that of the CMNT squad, which gets together from time to time while they're not working their day jobs in other leagues.
And lastly, as far as results go, I'd dare say that Canada will not win a World Cup in our lifetime. I'm all for encouraging the idea of giving it the good ol' college try, but at least TFC has a chance in hell of one day winning the MLS Cup (you can also look at the odds of Canada ever making the WC knockout rounds vs the odds of TFC making the playoffs if you like
Anyway, I'm not trying to argue with you - enjoy whatever gets you excited. Just trying to tell you how I'm looking at the whole thing. At least we can agree we're both passionate about football!
MLS Cup is nice, but like trane says, and I agree, the goal really should be the CCL.
Now TFC winning the CCL... that's huge.
MLS Cup... it's nice and all but what does it really amount to?
Canada didn't "bomb out" in 1986. They didn't score but played tough in two of the three games. The high water mark was when they lost only 1-0 to France, on a late goal, and put a hell of a scare into the French (those of us old enough to remember Bruce Wilson hitting the post early in that game, raise your hand).
Fwiw....I would say that these are very different propositions. The odds against Canada qualifying for WC2014 are probably around 6:1. TFC is probably 50 to 1 against to win the MLS Cup.
Last edited by ensco; 02-06-2012 at 12:03 PM.
What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.
I remember that game.
But the general public just remembers the fact that Canada failed to score a goal.
^Does the general public remember anything about WC1986 at all?
For me, that Canada-France game was the greatest game in Canadian soccer history. That French team, with Platini, knocked the favoured Brazil team out two weeks later in the quarters
What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.
^Indeed, we were in a very tough group that year. The Soviets were no slouches either.
No, we didn't score a goal, but overall, you'd have to say our results weren't that bad, all things considered.
I also remember that match France-Brazil as it took place on a Sunday, Platini's birthday, and for his PK in the penalty kicks.
He was Roberto Baggio, before Robert Baggio. I mean Baggio Platini'd his PK in 1994.
Luckily Luis Fernandez saved him.
i was two years old in 1986 and obviously don't remember that at all. Canada making the world cup would literally be a highlight of my life and further push me to go to the wc.
+1.
Gives me an excuse to finally go to Brazil too!
Country over club.
TFC is local, CMNT (and CWNT) are not.
Besides if Canada got an easy group, theres a chance to make to the round of 16. Although with Canada's luck, they'd get a group of death with Brazil, Germany and Spain...
I'm surprised at the comparison. You're all entitled to your opinion but the Olympic Ice Hockey competition has , what, a tenth of the nations involved in the competition as the WC? I'd expect experienced supporters to take this into consideration when rating qualifying to the world cup.
Winning MLS cup will bring more NA media attention for NA eyeballs that don't watch the sport.
Qualifying for the World Cup may have less lines in media columns in local papers but it will add up across the land.
I realize how elitist this attitude may sound(read) but winning MLS cup will mean more to people who know less about the sport and are less likely to grow it.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
It's the whole regional vs. country debate when it comes to Canada.
TFC wins the MLS Cup, people in BC or Quebec won't care. Much less people from the Prairies or the Maritimes.
Canada makes the WC, people from across the country, including those whose feelings are hurt in Vancouver about the lack of WCQ matches there, from Halifax to Winnipeg to Calgary will be following.
The best coorelation is the women's team. Look at the excitement when the women do well. For the longest time one of the most watched events in Canadian sporting history outside of hockey or CFL, was the U19 final between Canada-US back in 2002.
That's women's soccer. Junior event.
Imagine the number if CMNT made it to the World Cup? Made into the 2nd round?
Last edited by Whoop; 02-06-2012 at 01:16 PM.
We have passionate soccer fans in this country. I long for the day that fans put away their parent's country's jerseys and put on Canada red and be united. If just for 90 mins, three days out of the summer.
Until 2007, i didn't even know there was such a thing as the Concacaf Champion's League.
The greatest country in the world being involved in the biggest sporting event in the world means more, hands down.
You've missed my point. Wull mentioned that he would answer the question differently if the country in question was Scotland, otherwise he puts TFC ahead of Canada.
So, it's country before club, but not if we're talking about Canada. I thought 'what the fuck is that ?'
Also, it hasn't been mentioned that TFC competes for the MLS Cup annually, and without having to navigate a series of qualifications for the privilege.
Furthermore, once a new season is underway we quickly forget who the past champions are and focus on the next one. In no time an MLS Cup winner is lost in the annals of time.
A qualification for a World Cup is an accomplishment in itself. National pride in outsider nations hit record peaks. Plus, each World Cup is four years apart. That's 4 years of glory, or pain... or yearning. There are moments within World Cups that live on forever, performed by footballing minnows. Upsets happen on the grandest stage of them all.
Just pick a World Cup year and see if there wasn't a major upset, or an inspirational moment from a rank outsider.
What would be so bad if Canada was one of these teams ? Even if they were to bow out after the group stage ?
FFS, an MLS Cup for a team with 5 years under it's belt is more preferable to a World Cup appearance for a nation ? For your nation ?
I don't think some of you have thought this through properly.
a ha ha heh he hoo.. ha
I agree with those who say it's all about what you care about the most.
For five seasons I have tried to be a passionate TFC supporter but over that timespan the club has given a lot more disapointment than joy. Meanwhile I have been a proud Canadian my entire life (almost 40 years), as have my parents, grandparent, great-grand-parents, and so on. It's a no-brainer really.
In a sense I get where the die-hard proponents of club before country come from. It would be a lot different if my club had been around for a hundred years and I was a lifelong supporter who was continuously immersed in the club's culture, and if my country was a regular participant in the WC. That is not the case here, so I will pick Canada over TFC.
These quotes don't match. It looks to be about how well the National team will do and how likely they are to win.
And lastly, as far as results go, I'd dare say that Canada will not win a World Cup in our lifetime. I'm all for encouraging the idea of giving it the good ol' college try, but at least TFC has a chance in hell of one day winning the MLS Cup (you can also look at the odds of Canada ever making the WC knockout rounds vs the odds of TFC making the playoffs if you like
I'd hazard that you could apply your "how Canadian is the national team, really" with just as much validity to how Torontonian is the make-up of TFC.
The picture you paint makes it sound hard to support Canada. It is hard sometimes but I didn't get into this cause it was easy.
Let me restate that you are entitled to your opinion and I'll second you saying the most important thing is football first.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I'm also miffed by the 'I support the team most likely to win' logic.
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