Club or Country?

[tfcleeds]

To reiterate my earlier post near the beginning of this thread, I don't care if Canada were to do nothing in 2014, or even 2018 (of course, scoring a few goals, or maybe getting a couple of points would be nice). Just to BE there after 28 years, to be on the world stage (and let's face it, the World Cup is way bigger business now than it was in 1986) after so long - I would value that more over TFC winning a MLS Cup between now and then.

But the longer it takes for Canada to make a World Cup appearance, the more the trade off in putting up with a lack of TFC success. So at a certain point, the latter would become more important.

[Whoop]

Though on the club side, I will admit, you need the stability of the domestic clubs in order to help the CMNT.

But to touch on what tfcleeds says

But the longer it takes for Canada to make a World Cup appearance, the more the trade off in putting up with a lack of TFC success. So at a certain point, the latter would become more important.

This is true. Though the hope is that it doesn't take TFC that long to achieve MLS success.

[tfcleeds]

^Again, bearing in mind the issue brought forth by the poll. Which would you rather (assuming you can only choose one). I believe there can be both, and soon at that.

[TOBOR !]

of the 40 people (so far) who have selected club over country, I wonder if the options were changed to either a TFC championship or a WC appearance or success of some other country, which would they choose ?

[Oldtimer]

^ But the US has had some success once they are in the WC. I'd agree that Canadian success in the World Cup would be the biggest boost, but that has never come yet.

As I've said, if just getting into the WC is a big boost (which is what the poll is asking about), then why didn't 1986 do it? Why did it take TFC?

[Whoop]

Because there was nothing domestically to capitalize on. When the World Cup was over in '86 there was no NASL to go back to.

Canada failing to get to the 1994 WC also hurt.

I agree it goes hand in hand.

My only point is that Canada in the World Cup > than a Canadian team winning the MLS Cup.

Now if you're talking about winning the CCL I would say you have a case there.

[Whoop]

For me the order would be...

1) Canada success in the World Cup
2) TFC winning the CCL
3) Canada making the World Cup
4) TFC winning the MLS Cup
5) TFC making the playoffs

And if by some fluke in my lifetime it happens...

Canada winning the World Cup > TFC winning the World Club Cup

[TOBOR !]

If the US had hosted the 1986 WC it would have no doubt saved the NASL, and then you would've seen the impact you're looking for.

We'd be in the same boat (I think) whether Canada qualified for 1994 or not. There was still no domestic league. Maybe some thought would've been given to awarding a founding MLS franchise to a Canadian city. Perhaps Toronto.

[tfcleeds]

^Canada winning the World Cup? If I thought that were even remotely possible, I'd take that over seeing ANY of my clubs in any sport winning another championship again.

[Chris Wren]

^ But the US has had some success once they are in the WC. I'd agree that Canadian success in the World Cup would be the biggest boost, but that has never come yet.

As I've said, if just getting into the WC is a big boost (which is what the poll is asking about), then why didn't 1986 do it? Why did it take TFC?

I disagree with your opinion of what this poll is about. The poll is not about exposure or marketing of the game and what the consequences on the youth will be. The question asked is what would you rather see.

This is why I made the point earlier about it being about passion. Forget about the bottom line for a second. What do you want to see? What would make you, just you as a soccer fan, feel more amazing inside? TFC winning the MLS Cup or Canada Qualifying for the World Cup?

Two great options, I went for the World Cup because I've been waiting for Canada to get back since 86' and it only happens every 4 years.

On another note, I don't understand the English sentiment. I find their supporters to be the loudest singers and usually they are one of the largest contingents at any international game anywhere in the world.

[Oldtimer]

^Canada winning the World Cup? If I thought that were even remotely possible, I'd take that over seeing ANY of my clubs in any sport winning another championship again.

+1

If the US had hosted the 1986 WC it would have no doubt saved the NASL, and then you would've seen the impact you're looking for.

We'd be in the same boat (I think) whether Canada qualified for 1994 or not. There was still no domestic league. Maybe some thought would've been given to awarding a founding MLS franchise to a Canadian city. Perhaps Toronto.

If you read the history of MLS, you would see that any Canadian franchise in early MLS would have been impossible. In fact, if MLS hadn't had had it's earlier problems, it would be like the NFL, with no Canadian team in it at all. Desperation drove the league to ML$E's chequebook, and TFC's great off-the-field success drove MLS to accept Vancouver and Montreal.

[tfcleeds]

I'm not even sure that greater success in 1986 for the CMNT would have been the springboard for greater growth and popularity of the sport in this country. Never mind Canadian football, the state of football in general in this country was a lot different back then than it is now.

For one thing, it was still largely the preserve of ex-pats watching their favourite teams in social clubs or pubs via satellite TV. There was no TSN/Sportsnet showing 3 English league games a week. There was no Setanta. There was no GOLTV. There was no internet (at least for the general populace) providing a wealth of information on just about every league or club imaginable. Heck, back then, you were lucky if you found out the result of your team on the same day it happened.

It's only through the proliferation of football on TV since the early 1990s that has seen the interest in football in this country in general increase. Of course, growth in the Canadian game is what is happening/yet to happen, and is what most of us on here have a vested interest in.

[KRO]

I've lived in 5 different countries and don't consider myself nationalistic. Having said that, I've lived in Canada for 24 years, became a citizen as soon as I could and will probably never leave.

For me, international football is a sideshow. I went to the WCQ games last year and will go again this year, wearing my now out of date V pattern shirt but in general I think the quality of international football is inferior to club football.

I'm a club football supporter and voted for TFC as MLS Champions. Face it guys, Canada does not have a good team at the moment and I think it will all end in tears. I guess I'm in the minority.

[Whoop]

I'm not even sure that greater success in 1986 for the CMNT would have been the springboard for greater growth and popularity of the sport in this country. Never mind Canadian football, the state of football in general in this country was a lot different back then than it is now.

For one thing, it was still largely the preserve of ex-pats watching their favourite teams in social clubs or pubs via satellite TV. There was no TSN/Sportsnet showing 3 English league games a week. There was no Setanta. There was no GOLTV. There was no internet (at least for the general populace) providing a wealth of information on just about every league or club imaginable. Heck, back then, you were lucky if you found out the result of your team on the same day it happened.

It's only through the proliferation of football on TV since the early 1990s that has seen the interest in football in this country in general increase. Of course, growth in the Canadian game is what is happening/yet to happen, and is what most of us on here have a vested interest in.

Exactly.

I don't think it was TFC per se that made the soccer scene in Toronto. It was already, growing from more exposure to the game on TV and online.

People who don't even care about TFC or the MLS would be attracted to Canada making the World Cup. Remember there are people out there who hate TFC (or MLS in general). Or worse yet, people who don't even care the MLS or will ever care about the MLS. People who fans of other MLS teams or fans of their European/SA club teams.

But Canada going to the World Cup would encapsulate all those people. Fans of Barcelona, Liverpool, United, City, Marseille, Bayern, AC Milan, etc.

[Wull]

of the 40 people (so far) who have selected club over country, I wonder if the options were changed to either a TFC championship or a WC appearance or success of some other country, which would they choose ?

I'd pick Scotland if that was the question.

[Belfast_Boy]

of the 40 people (so far) who have selected club over country, I wonder if the options were changed to either a TFC championship or a WC appearance or success of some other country, which would they choose ?

that does make it make things more interesting.
let me start by saying that LFC are my first team and I'd want them to win above any national success. whether it's Ireland or Canada.
throw TFC into the picture I'm really torn I did pick TFC as my shoice when it comes to Canada. I haven't really got behind the team yet.

[Canary10]

Ha! Club or country? This is the exact question Harry Redknapp is asking himself right now!

[ensco]

I'm not even sure that greater success in 1986 for the CMNT would have been the springboard for greater growth and popularity of the sport in this country. Never mind Canadian football, the state of football in general in this country was a lot different back then than it is now.

For one thing, it was still largely the preserve of ex-pats watching their favourite teams in social clubs or pubs via satellite TV. There was no TSN/Sportsnet showing 3 English league games a week. There was no Setanta. There was no GOLTV. There was no internet (at least for the general populace) providing a wealth of information on just about every league or club imaginable. Heck, back then, you were lucky if you found out the result of your team on the same day it happened.

It's only through the proliferation of football on TV since the early 1990s that has seen the interest in football in this country in general increase. Of course, growth in the Canadian game is what is happening/yet to happen, and is what most of us on here have a vested interest in.

True. It was awful in those days. Even worse in the US. I was living in the US in 1986 and the only place you could watch those WC games was on Univision, and even then only at 11pm.

They had ads as a picture within a picture! and ran the same stupid "Budweiser es para usted!" ad 5 times a half.

[Whoop]

LOL

They used to do that on TSN too.

TV people figured that it was a death knell to show 50 minutes of straight action without a commercial.

[TOBOR !]

If you read the history of MLS, you would see that any Canadian franchise in early MLS would have been impossible. In fact, if MLS hadn't had had it's earlier problems, it would be like the NFL, with no Canadian team in it at all. Desperation drove the league to ML$E's chequebook, and TFC's great off-the-field success drove MLS to accept Vancouver and Montreal.

(that's a bit condescending)

I haven't read it - it's on my list of things to do.

Does it address what might have happened if Canada had qualified for the 1994 World Cup ?

[Pinkie]

For me the order would be...

1) Canada success in the World Cup
2) TFC winning the CCL
3) Canada making the World Cup
4) TFC winning the MLS Cup
5) TFC making the playoffs

And if by some fluke in my lifetime it happens...

Canada winning the World Cup > TFC winning the World Club Cup

i second that order.

[ensco]

Canada winning the World Cup

Hey, it's better than I thought!

Odds are only 250,000 to 1.

https://sportsbook.gamingsystem.net/...categoryId=553

[Oldtimer]

(that's a bit condescending)

Sorry, didn't mean it as a put down. I'm just saying that it's really worthwhile to look at a book on MLS history. It's really interesting (especially when you get into what alternate proposals there were to MLS).

The book I read mostly ignored Canada.

[Greatest Ripoff]

For me, international football is a sideshow. I went to the WCQ games last year and will go again this year, wearing my now out of date V pattern shirt but in general I think the quality of international football is inferior to club football.

Generally this is true, but TFC are far worse as a football team than the canadian national team.

[SilverSamurai]

I've lived in 5 different countries and don't consider myself nationalistic. Having said that, I've lived in Canada for 24 years, became a citizen as soon as I could and will probably never leave.

For me, international football is a sideshow. I went to the WCQ games last year and will go again this year, wearing my now out of date V pattern shirt but in general I think the quality of international football is inferior to club football.

I'm a club football supporter and voted for TFC as MLS Champions. Face it guys, Canada does not have a good team at the moment and I think it will all end in tears. I guess I'm in the minority.

But there's always hope.
Does that stop a lot of these minnow teams from hoping?

Ex. does Mexico think they'll actually win it?
What about Scotland, N. Ireland or Ireland? Egpyt? N. Korea?

Actually the CMNT in a friendly vs. either Irelands or Scotland could be entertaining...
But I'd rather a friendly like that for the next round as a prep for the CONCACAF finals...

In any case we need more friendlies...

[TOBOR !]

Here's what they should do - treat national squads like club teams.

If you're good enough to play for England, then you are selected and you get paid to play for England. That is your team.

If you get dropped from England you can be selected by a club team and go play for them, but you don't play for both.

To keep all these national sides busy, there are regional leagues that teams compete to be the champions of. The winners of each league compete in a end-of-season tournament to crown a champion.

No need for Euros, no need for a World Cup. This is it. Every single year.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I went to the WCQ games last year and will go again this year, wearing my now out of date V pattern shirt but in general I think the quality of international football is inferior to club football.

Sidenote: The new centenary jerseys are supposed to be a year long celebration and not intended as a replacement. They will wear them this year and then will consider whether to adopt it and continue using it (most likely). What is for sure is the V is supposed to be available as the present jersey AS WELL.

so in summary KRO? You are NOT out of date!!

[TOBOR !]

... or use the Euros (et al) as qualifiers for the next WC. ie - top 8 teams qualify for the next World Cup. Do away with a lot of international dates.

[trane]

I've lived in 5 different countries and don't consider myself nationalistic. Having said that, I've lived in Canada for 24 years, became a citizen as soon as I could and will probably never leave.

For me, international football is a sideshow. I went to the WCQ games last year and will go again this year, wearing my now out of date V pattern shirt but in general I think the quality of international football is inferior to club football.

I'm a club football supporter and voted for TFC as MLS Champions. Face it guys, Canada does not have a good team at the moment and I think it will all end in tears. I guess I'm in the minority.

That is something that is often said, but honestly, I think that if you look at the countries that are perennial competitors in International football, such as Holland, Spain, Italy, Germany, Brazil, and Argentina, those teams when put together would challenge any Club.