oh god. Dobson covering TFC games. *shudder*Originally Posted by boban
If this does go through I'm guessing we get to see TFC games on Sportsnet and a minimum on GoalTV
oh god. Dobson covering TFC games. *shudder*If this does go through I'm guessing we get to see TFC games on Sportsnet and a minimum on GoalTV
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Here...
I think ultimately though that is the future, all of the relevant Toronto sports teams under one umbrella and create one channel to showcase those teams. Leaving the curling, junior hockey, World Juniors, amateur sports, to be split between TSN and Sportsnet. Those channels would be free, but if you want the new Toronto sports channel, you'll have to pay.Under this reported deal .... the biggest result of all of this could be the formation of a new entity, some kind of new sports broadcast network for southern Ontario. Or not. Maybe this deal blocks that from ever happening.
I think the new network (like we needed more) is the only way to get Bell and Rogers to work together.
Otherwise they are both setting themselves up for hell as Larry is still sitting on 20% which is enough to tip the scales either way. Sounds like a complete nightmare if they can't get along.
I'd think what we would see is the creation of more regional networks a-la sportsnet ontario/tsn winnipeg etc. A Toronto Sports Station just isn't practical, especially in March/April/May/Oct/Nov when theoretically all 4 teams are playing at once. It'd make more sense to have, say, sportsnet as the home of the jays and tsn ontario as the home of the leafs and some other new channel for the raps/tfc. I think this could be great for our exposure. Sportsnet and TSN owning TFC can only mean more people being able to see the games, more advertising during other sports coverage and better and longer coverage on sportscentre.
As for the OTPP, I found my chart, but sadly I didn't find the complete one. I tried to open the OTPP investments PDF from their website, but in the interum since I was using it they made it private http://www.otpp.com/ar/pdfs/ar_Investments.pdf
What I do have written down:
Deutsche Telekom
T-mobile (t-home, t-online, t-systems)
Scout 24 (a german craigslist)
Hellenic Telecom
Network Solutions
Strato AG
Maple Leaf Foods
Schneiders
Mitchells Gourmet Foods
Olympic fine meats
new york bagels
french croissant co
avance bakery
harvesttime bakery
la fornaia
bernand matthews bakery
OGX Petroleo e Gas participacoes Sa (supposedly the largest offshore drilling company in brazil, which would most likely make the company the largest offshore drilling company in the americas)
Cadillac Fairview (Eatons centre, TD Centre, Pacific Centre, Fairview mall, maple leaf square (It was originally 50/50 between MLSE and Cadillac Fairview, but MLSE sold their share to CF. As soon as I saw this I knew they'd sell as soon as possible after the project was complete, that's the only way it makes sense. That way they get to sell the risky and expensive part of the business but keep the cash cow they built)
Aquilex Holdings (owner/oporator of I maany nuclear plants worldwide)
Aquilex Nuclear services (manufacter and repair nuclear reactors)
Aquilex fossil fuels/petro chemicals/refining/waste to energy/industrial cleaning
GCT Global Container Terminals TSI Terminal, Vancouver/Delta BC (the ports in BC)
New York Container terminal, staten island (the ports in NYC)
Global Terminal (the ports in NJ)
Intergen NV (2 power plants in Australia, 1 in the philipines, 2 in the netherlands, 3 in England, 4 in mexico)
Scotia Gas networks
Samsonite
American Tourister
Lark
Lacoste (bags and small leather goods only)
Timberland (bags only)
Parmalat Canada
A and P
Dominion
Loeb
Pharmacy 1
Rexall
Real Canadian Superstore
They don't outright own all of these, all I could find is that they either were or had invested to some degree in them. Large enough to mention on the financial reports of either OTPP or the companies themselves that I could find. It was freaking tough compiling that list. Too bad OTPP made the investments pdf private. They're a pension fund, they should have some accountability towards the stuff they own. I assume lots of teachers wouldn't be happy they produce nuclear reactors or drill for oil offshore in South America. And the fact that when MLSE sold their part of Maple Leaf Square, that they sold it to Cadillac Fairview would seem to raise a few eyebrows (esp from the Ontario Securities Commission). They used the assets of one company to leverage a huge investment that they sold for a massive profit.... to another company that they own. which allowed them to sell the first company, for a major profit. And still keep the most valuable asset (ML Square long term is more valuable then owning the Leafs/Raptors. That land and those buildings are worth a LOT)
Edit 2: It was T-Mobile who made me suspicious, they're a MAJOR partner of the NBA. Of course OTPP own(ed) an NBA team. That seemed like a conflict. T-Mobile was recently sold, but there's problems with the sale with either the FCC or the SEC in the states, I don't really know that story or what ended up happening, if ownership eventually changed, or if it was quashed, or why. I still feel like there was another fishy thing with either Pit or Philly, but I don't have it so who knows.
Last edited by Waggy; 12-09-2011 at 02:35 AM.
If enterprise value is $2.1 billion, Teachers/Larry ripped their faces off. One of the reasons this may have leaked everywhere overnight is to test the market reaction, I am always suspicious of that when merger deals leak in the middle of the night, as opposed to midday. If it isn't announced this morning, and BCE/Rogers stock prices are hit hard today, all bets are off. Even if they don't trade down today, I wouldn't go putting these stocks in my RRSP, personally. This is a very bad day for shareholders of BCE and Rogers imho.
The open discussion of a super channel, putting the Xbox thing out now, these turn out to be smart moves. Bell/Rogers are obviously seriously worried that, in the long run, they can't stop these things. It's bigger than sports.
Also Larry must have come to his senses. OTTP's bluff got called by him, but neither had winning cards, and you have to move forward. At some point soon here, a shotgun was going to get triggered, or it was going to wind up in court. OTTP had to be marshalling for war, the situation was untenable, and Larry had to know it. Larry was going to lose his right to block everything someday. So Larry blinked, in return for staying on the NHL Board of Governors - that's obviously an interesting gambit by the acquirers, a major concession. We need to understand that better - what are the terms of that? for how long? If it's for a year, that's one thing. If it's for 20 years, that's another.
It's an annoyingly socialist corporatist Canadian solution though. We'll have to wait for details about governance, but my initial reaction is that this outcome seriously sucks. We are guaranteed the higher possible prices to watch our teams down the line. And the governance and decision-making, I'll bet, may turn out to be even more dysfunctional and corporate then it already is, as hard as that is to achieve. Leaving Tanenbaum in place is how it starts - the owners don't exercise their natural control over the hiring of the people making operating decisions. Sound familiar?
Last edited by ensco; 12-09-2011 at 07:35 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Headquarters to Ensco. Calling Ensco. Come in Ensco. We need the intel. Come in. Over.
Edit: There he is.
"Failure simply isn't an option at this stage. TFC pushed its chips to the middle of the table when it splurged on Bradley and Defoe and reinforced its bet by making savvy acquisitions elsewhere. This collection of players is capable of delivering on the promises made during the close season. There are no more excuses available for TFC. Only success will continue the process of atoning for the past and establishing a higher standard for the future." FOX Sports
MLSE has presser scheduled for 9:30am today. As per @CP24 tweet.
Hi Dom. I'll be back with more. Stay tuned.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Oh Yeah. Whatever, that guy talks out of his ass. He's a sports writer, not a business one. lo
They already have Leafs TV and Rators and they have failed. Nobody is paying to watch TFC on GoalTV either. I don't see that happening. You get more advertising dollars with more viewers. Pay channels like this would cut the viewership drastically and as a result ad revenues.
Last edited by boban; 12-09-2011 at 07:49 AM.
It's all true.
The deal is being announced at 9.30am today (press release at 9am). The Globe has the numbers 100% right.
The logjam broke because Tanenbaum was imminently going to be removed by Teachers as Chairman and Board of Governors Representative. It was time for Larry to do the deal, or go to war with Teachers. At 21x EBITDA (amazing), the deal made a lot more sense.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
didn't bell just sell its shares in the last year?
Things just got a bit more interesting.
My own conspiracy theory: The reason why the Leafs and TFC have had a lot more money invested in them, and a lot more effort than usual to improve them, and the Leafs are doing way better than usual is that ML$E realized that they needed to have winning teams in order to make the "property" valuable to media companies like Rogers and Bell.
It's all about content. More games = more TV dates = more advertising revenue. When it's just Teachers' milking their cash cow, there's only a moderate interest in winning. Add in the need to make it attractive to media companies, and all of a sudden a lot more effort is put in. In TFC's case, no more simply hiring a "Mo," spend the money and have a consultant recommend the ideal coaching structure. In the Leaf's case, hire a proven winner as coach.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
it just got a lot closer to actually happening. we WERE supposed to hear an announcement sometime this week no? maybe this is why it was being held off.
They're streaming the press conference at 9.30am
http://www.mlse.com/mlselive_120911.aspx
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
According to TSN 1.3 billion
i really hope we dont end up yearning for the days of the teachers pention as owners
That's a fair bet yes. CCL roll out got bumped. Actually good that it got bumped. It would have been buried, say if it got announced yesterday then this MLSE thing happened today.
Does TFC now get employee pricing on the Dome rental?
It will be interesting for sure.
On one hand, teachers always hold that mantle of not caring about the product, only the results for their bottom line.
Now its arguable that the bottom line is directly affected by the results because of the TV deal. If the poduct is crap, viewership goes down.
In pricipal it does help eliminate that long time complaint but we will have to wait and see how it really pans out.
Bell 37.5%
Rogers 37.5%
A guy named Larry 25% (up from 20% I believe).
Prices will probably triple again in a year or two at the most.
http://www.onesecondleft.com/ Please visit the one second left blog that I contribute to.
My MLS now includes Montreal... we needed someone to hate.
It'll be better in that these owners have to be better at finding and managing talent than Teachers were. It's a low bar.
But imho, putting the Hatfields and McCoys into a joint venture like this, how long will it take before their problems in dealing with each other spill over into team operations. Add Tanenbaum into that mix, oh boy....
I am pretty worried. I wanted a Russian grillionaire.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
That gives Larry T huge leverage.
That is a pretty big downside. We are all aware of the battles between Larry and Richard. Now take that to a corperate level and things could get messy fast.
Why is it I think Richard is just waiting for the other to blink then swoop in and take their share? Doubtful but you never know.
Seeing Mohammed and Cope up there, their body language, man, this just isn't going to be easy.
BCE is getting about a quarter of the cash from its pension fund. BCE almost certainly cannot just vote the pension fund shares.
We've gone from 1 corporate owners back to 3 corporate owners. Only this time it's two bitter enemies in a mutual death grip, another pension fund, and the holdover we kept was a huge part of the historical problem re meddling in operations..
This is just peachy.
Last edited by ensco; 12-09-2011 at 10:01 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Just got our corp email announcing the deal.
On a day when markets are up, both BCE and Rogers are trading down, but only a bit. The market doesn't love the deal, but isn't puking all over it.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Classic. Tanenbaum is asked what it means to the Toronto sports fan. He says we're even better positioned to go after the Stanley Cup, the NBA Championship and.......double clutches and can't remember the name of what TFC is competing for. Winter has to tell him it's the MLS Cup.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
They don't give a shit about TFC.
Well, we've really gone from 2 to 3, and in all honesty, can it be much worse than under the Teachers? Sure it won't be perfect, but I'd rather have 2 giant telecommunications companies owning the team than a teachers' pension plan.
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