Winter Approval Rating - October 2011

[__wowza]

PLEASE READ BEFORE RATING!
(it'll make everything a hell of a lot easier)

Instead of a simple yes or no, you're going to be rating different aspects of Winter as a coach. Each category gets a specific rating, from 5 (being the highest) to 1 (being the lowest). To calculate the average rating, just add your total up and divide by 5, if it's got a decimal point at the end of it, you can round either up or down based on the simple question "did Winter perform up to your expectations for the month". Afterward, you post your total rating on the poll, from 5 - 1.

here's the criteria:

TACTICS
how did you feel about the tactical choices made?
what about his starters? subs? formation?

RESULTS
at the end of the day, how did we do in terms of results? did we tie games we should've lost? lost games we should've won? etc.

EFFICIENCY
how effective was the coach in utilizing the players he has?
did he play some players out of position? did he have a reason to?

COMMUNICATION
how effective was the coach in explaining his outlook and choices in the paper / on torontofc.ca / on TFCtv / in post match interviews?

TRADES & MISC
were the trades made productive or counter-productive?
did he fly off the handle at get a 4 game ban?
was he making eyes at your wife/girlfriend/same-sex partner?


A general guideline: Its how you feel at the moment, not a final assessment. Like a marathon, this is just a snapshot of our support for the month. A low approval rating does not rate him as an overall failure, just like a high approval rating does not mean he's Sir Alex Ferguson. For the sake of context, this is how he / TFC have preformed in September:




LEAGUE PLAY
3 points out of a possible 9
8TH in the East -
16TH out of 18TH overall -
GD: 0

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE PLAY
2ND in CCL Group C ↑
3 points out of a possible 3
GD: +3

*red denotes CCL game


Toronto FC v New York Redbulls
OCT 1st : TIE 1 - 1

Philadelphia Union v Toronto FC
OCT 15th : TIE 1 - 1

FC Dallas v Toronto FC
OCT 18th : WIN 3 - 0

Toronto FC v New England
OCT 22nd : TIE 2 - 2

OLD THREADS:
*3.76 / Rating: B SEPTEMBER THREAD > http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=29748
*3.21 / Rating: C AUGUST THREAD > http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/sh...ad.php?t=29422
83.44% JULY THREAD > http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=29100
63.55% JUNE THREAD > http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/sh...ad.php?t=28658
46.60% MAY THREAD > http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=28251
77.61% APRIL THREAD > http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27878


NOTE: if you'd like to see an update to the criteria you think i may have overlooked, PM me.

[__wowza]

winter approval rating for the year coming up shortly.

[Dkolish3]

I guess I'll be the first one to ask this but considering that FC Dallas lost 8 of their last ten games are they any good? And if not was it really a momentous occasion that we beat them?

[Oldtimer]

I guess I'll be the first one to ask this but considering that FC Dallas lost 8 of their last ten games are they any good? And if not was it really a momentous occasion that we beat them?

Considering how much higher Dallas are up the table and that most of those losses were to top teams, that TFC had never beaten them in 5 years, that it was an away game, and that TFC won by 3, yes it was momentous.

In fact, did you see the game? TFC played their best football in 5 years.

[Dkolish3]

Considering how much higher Dallas are up the table and that most of those losses were to top teams, that TFC had never beaten them in 5 years, that it was an away game, and that TFC won by 3, yes it was momentous.

In fact, did you see the game? TFC played their best football in 5 years.

I did see the game and thought TFC played a great game, but the fact remains that TFC beat a collapsing FC Dallas, just because they were good for most of the season does not mean that TFC faced a good team. Also FC Dallas was the second worst team through the second half of the season, hardly world beaters

[ManUtd4ever]

I guess I'll be the first one to ask this but considering that FC Dallas lost 8 of their last ten games are they any good? And if not was it really a momentous occasion that we beat them?

TFC was generally considered to be an underdog to advance in Group C going into the final match against Dallas.

Nonetheless, based on your logic, TFC thoroughly dominated a club that was struggling, in their own barn, and they still deserve full credit for advancing to their inaugral CCL quarter final in a must win situation.

Any way you slice it, it was a momentous occasion for the franchise at this particular juncture in the history of the organization.

[__wowza]

I guess I'll be the first one to ask this but considering that FC Dallas lost 8 of their last ten games are they any good? And if not was it really a momentous occasion that we beat them?

same could be said about the montreal miracle, but at the end of the day, a lot of people didn't expect us to win. hell, i didnt expect us to win. i thought it was going to be a let down like the NYRB game that took us out of the playoffs. everything i read had us pinned as a "surprise" victor, but here's where i find my joy:

we won 3-0, dominating a team.

it's not just that we beat a team whose form dipped, our form perked up, and we won in a fashion that i'd expect a team to win under that scenario. it's not like the NYRB game where you could say "ok, one last game and we're in the playoffs, bottom of the table team", we actually played well, played like we deserved that victory, and we did it with a whole lot of dead weight.

[__wowza]

TACTICS: 5
i would've liked to see plata on for longer in the philly game, as he'd been out for a bit, but ultimately it proved good to let him rest after an injury before the dallas game. i also dug the kocic over frei decision, kocic was solid and winter stood with the man who brought us to the dance.

RESULTS: 3
three ties in games i couldnt give a fuck about. thought we got a lot less than we deserved and that we should've overcame philly and the revs, but our tie gave the whitecaps the golden spoon, thats good i guess?

EFFICIENCY: 3
frings as sweeper is still a stroke of genius in organizing the backline and carrying around dead weight, i expect him to move back to his DM role next season. i thought he made good for replacing avila for the CCL league, but i'd love to see him back in the lineup come march.

COMMUNICATION: 5
town halls, that's it that's all. he's got a great understanding of the game. his whole team does. he was really articulate at spilling how he's feeling about the league, the refs, etc. he has a bit more restraint than the rest of his team (de klerk), and that's fantastic to see as a head coach.

TRADES & MISC: N/A
he was making eyes at your wife/girlfriend/same-sex partner.

[Oldtimer]

I gave him a 4.3, up from 3.8, rounded down to 4.


(BTW, I'm rating him as an MLS coach, where say Kreis or Schmidt would be a "5," not on a "world class" scale, where a Kreis or a Schmidt would be a "3.")

Certainly Winter's tactics in Dallas, his lineup and substitutions and game strategy were almost perfect. He gets downgraded for not being able to motivate his players for the meaningless season finale.

[Beach_Red]

I guess I'll be the first one to ask this but considering that FC Dallas lost 8 of their last ten games are they any good? And if not was it really a momentous occasion that we beat them?

If Winter and the staff treated it as a momentus occassion that would be a problem, sure, but they didn't. They prepared for it well and executed well and moved on.

So that should give us confidence that they are preparing well for next season and for the rest of the Champions League.

[Detroit_TFC]

I fretted a lot about the score last month, this month, easy 4. Top notch management of our most important game far outweighs the lackluster home closer.

Dallas was ripe for the taking, true, but that's never stopped us from failing to do so dozens of times before (speaking generally). I've never seen the squad so motivated to get a result and that reflects well on the team management. Also the strong positive vibe coming out of the players post season gives me a lot of hope and optimism.

[PopePouri]

Even if Dallas had a poor run of form, they were dominated completely.

Also given our record this year, we seem to stop losing streaks from continuing. We could probably be blamed for the SKC turnaround.

[Yeoman]

i wanted to give a 3.5 if i could
i still have faith
i know it's not his fault he's got what he's got
but for mls quality? he sure did make us look pretty damn good this year once we got sorted half way through the season

[Shakes McQueen]

I gave him a well-earned 4 stars.

- Scott

[Auzzy]

Winter didn't make eyes at my wife or my girlfriend or my same-sex partner. That's an insult to me. -2

[torontocelt]

I gave him a 3 as he only picked up 3 points out of 9 in the MLS. If 9 points in the MLS and a win in the group stages of the champions league is a 5 rating then how can he be anything other than a 3 considering his overall results?

[Roogsy]

I don't reward people for things they have not delivered yet. Although I am no longer going to argue what people should be satisfied with, I maintain consistent to my standards. I gave him a 3. The team is more potent offensively but we still suck defensively, and after an entire season with him in charge the best thing I can say about Winter is that we don't suck. That's hardly a "5" for me.

[Juanito]

For me he's a 3.5, but since I can't give that, I will give him a 3.

There were some positives, one BIG POSITIVE, but there have been some ho-hum performances.

I still believe we are moving in the right direction, it's just not a 4 or 5 in my opinion.

[Gallade]

a 4 - I'm not going to 'average' the CCL results with the eliminated-from-playoff-race MLS ones. we got 3 out of 3 meaningful points and 3 out of 9 in friendlies. (i was very happy to dodge the Spoon but i've seen nothing to indicate that the team cared about that.)

the team's record in the Quality DPs era is a satisfying one. we're not SS contenders next year, but top 3 seed in the East won't require too much tinkering.

[jloome]

I'd give him a 3.5. Solid first season based on our pre-existing expectations that he was rebuilding with a system basically alien to mls.

[__wowza]

just a snapshot after 76 votes:

winter currently sits at 78.15%
which is a 3.90 star average rating
and that translates to a B+

up: .14 stars and a half grade from september
up: .69 stars and a grade from august

[Oldtimer]

Here's where we were a little over a year ago:

coach

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/con...atid=8&id=2329

GM

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/con...atid=8&id=2127 (talking about bringing in new players , look at how he never looks you in the eye).

[Detroit_TFC]

Here's where we were a little over a year ago:

coach

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/con...atid=8&id=2329

GM

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/con...atid=8&id=2127 (talking about bringing in new players , look at how he never looks you in the eye).

Oy vey. It's like Preki is giving a deposition, or giving testimony at a Congressional committee.

Quite a counterpoint indeed.

[Shakes McQueen]

Keep in mind this is rating his performance in October, guys - not an end of season rating.

- Scott

[__wowza]

Keep in mind this is rating his performance in October, guys - not an end of season rating.

- Scott

^ what he said. i thought that went without saying, a "whole season thread" is coming later on during the break.

[Roogsy]

I get the happiness over the CCL win but 3 points out of 9? How does that earn a 4 or 5 rating?

I get the feeling that one win will influence the whole year's rating overall.

[menefreghista]

I get the happiness over the CCL win but 3 points out of 9? How does that earn a 4 or 5 rating?

I get the feeling that one win will influence the whole year's rating overall.

The optimism for that is really only here.

The rest of the fanbase barely noticed. But they did notice another shitty season in MLS.

[brad]

I get the happiness over the CCL win but 3 points out of 9? How does that earn a 4 or 5 rating?

I get the feeling that one win will influence the whole year's rating overall.

Simple, context.

NYRB game. Loses a mark for me for dropping two points at home.

Philly away - a draw away against one of the better teams in one of the more hostile environments in the league while resting starters for the CL game is a good result in my books.

Dallas - the only game in Oct that mattered and we came up big, dominating them from start to finish, away, with one of the best performances the club has ever put in. That gets huge marks from me.

New England - loses a mark for dropping the points at home.

So - one fantastic result, one very good result, and two average results.

I also apply context to the matches I watch and the circumstances. The CCL result far outweighs the others because it was the only game that mattered and the performance was comprehensive. The Philly point was good because of the circumstances. The points in the NY game was lost when one of the greatest players of his generation rolled back the years and produced a piece of magic that would not have looked out of place at Highbury 8-10 years ago. The NE result came a few days after a mid-week CL game and we don't have the squad depth to to play a mid-week game and and then a weekend one.

Had we actually been in the hunt for a playoff spot and any of those dropped points mattered in that regard, I would have rated him lower.

[brad]

There is one other thing I give Winter big credit for - we lost 4 of our last 20 matches. He is breaking the losing mentality of this team. There are still too many draws in there, but instilling belief in the lads that they aren't going to get blown out every game is a big step in improving the results IMHO.

This has a been a problem since day one at this club.

[Roogsy]

Again, short memories. Some of the worst losses in the teams history came under Winter. We stopped losing as much when the DPs arrived so was it the coaching or the DPs? To me that's a key question.