View Poll Results: How do you feel Winter has performed as a coach in October

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  • 5 star

    30 23.62%
  • 4 star

    69 54.33%
  • 3 star

    22 17.32%
  • 2 star

    4 3.15%
  • 1 star

    2 1.57%
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  1. #241
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    ^ while heads are coming out of asses, see if you can look up a copy of the league's constitution in order to understand that the decision to pay him or not doesn't rest with the team. Single entity jazz and all that.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke_Jones View Post
    Why didn't vvinter just pay the man?

    There is a big shit eating grin on De Rosario's face knowing 2 teams didnt think he was worth enough and he proved them wrong in the same year.

    Fucking lame ass supporters of vvinter get your heads out of your asses.

    If we dont have a winning record after the 10th game next season you know vvinter will be fired or quit and then what?

    Praise the next jackass in line.
    I think there was pressure from above in the organization not to pay him.

  3. #243
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    I laugh at people voting 4 star.

    Kinnear took a worst team and are in the Finals this year, thats 4-5 star.

    Wow people, setting the bar low.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigby View Post
    Why do I get the feeling that Winter could walk on water, and SOME people would complain that he's getting the floor all wet...

    Because he should be busy taking our team to the playoffs.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by J . View Post
    I laugh at people voting 4 star.

    Kinnear took a worst team and are in the Finals this year, thats 4-5 star.

    Wow people, setting the bar low.
    I don't blame people at all. It's been absolutely miserable and we're finally starting to play a more attractive brand and actually score goals... we finally thumped Columbus in their own stadium no less and we're in the quarter finals of the CL.

    Is giving Winter a 4 over the top? Yup... but like I said, I can't blame anybody for being a bit generous.
    Last edited by Brooker; 11-19-2011 at 06:50 AM.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by J . View Post
    I laugh at people voting 4 star.

    Kinnear took a worst team and are in the Finals this year, thats 4-5 star.

    Wow people, setting the bar low.
    This poll is regarding his performance in October, not the entire season. Assuming some people weight certain wins as more important than others depending on circumstance, then it isn't completely preposterous to give him a four star rating for October.

    Instead of sarcastically laughing at people, and accusing them of setting the bar low, how about laying out your own argument for why you think otherwise, and seeing if it wins anyone over.

    This kind of approach does nothing but cause people to double down on their "side" of the discussion, potentially resulting in more DeRo-style bullshit.

    - Scott
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen View Post
    This poll is regarding his performance in October, not the entire season. Assuming some people weight certain wins as more important than others depending on circumstance, then it isn't completely preposterous to give him a four star rating for October.

    Instead of sarcastically laughing at people, and accusing them of setting the bar low, how about laying out your own argument for why you think otherwise, and seeing if it wins anyone over.

    This kind of approach does nothing but cause people to double down on their "side" of the discussion, potentially resulting in more DeRo-style bullshit.

    - Scott

    Well Ive been pretty consistent all year, but Ill reiterate what Ive said.

    My premise is that the only successful season is one whereby you make the playoffs a five star year is making the finals.

    Every year people pretend the team is getting better when the fact is when you watch other MLS teams, they are better than us. Even in our very few wins, there were very few dominating efforts. Maybe 2-3 games all year where TFC truly was without question the better team, vs Columbus and vs Dallas and that was in the final two months.

    In October, one win and three daw does not make for a truly successful month despite the win in Dallas.

    MLS is a league were parity is the sought after norm, for most of last season our team was midtable and collapsed due to poor management, egos and money. It is a fallacy of thought and an acceptence of failure to view MLS otherwise.

    You can look at teams like DCU, Houston etc as sides that understand the league, made the right changes and improved. Houston so much they are in the finals. Houston was horrible last year, they got the coach we should have had and now are were we wont be next season.

    Why not look compare vs the NYs, LAs, the Houstons, Seattle sides that instead of rebuilding and saying at the end "next year". Very little has improved, the defending is worse than ever and we are not scoring these goals playing this attacking football that people who vote any sort of passing grade preach about. They are not backed by the stats, wins or the play on the field. For all this talk of improving quality, of playing the right way of all this and that the truth is TFC was a horrible side this year.

    Before and after the transfer window simply put the team was not good enough on too many nights and those very few where the team looked good, the reality is that all bad teams have nights where they put out a good show.

    This is a side that gave more more and scored less than any TFC team previous and for most of the season arguably if it wasnt for the ineptitude of Vancouver, was the worst team in the league, hapless at home and toothless on the road.

    The only reason why I voted for a two was that we got several breaks and won a singular big match vs Dallas which to be honest was won by the feet of Plata who put in the best match of his life and if I was Dallas I would have been very disappointed with the finishing and lifeless effort the Hoops put in.

    Either way, I hope the 4's are right but my expectations sadly were met all season.

  8. #248
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    Out of the cauldron of all this Winter discussion, I see a pretty clear alignment of opinion now. I'd be willing to bet something like 80-90% of people would agree with the following statement about WinterMariner:

    "While it's immensely frustrating to have our team finish at the bottom of MLS again, we played a lot better in the second half. WinterMariner signed two DPs that were immediately effective, which is something not many managements in MLS have done in the DP market historically. We had an unexpected gift in the CCL. The Dero thing, well, while it may be a shame, who knows what would have happened if he had stayed, and you can't really blame WinterMariner for what happened.

    But it was a lost season, and many moves didn't pan out. So we expect the team to make good signings in the offseason, be competitive, start strongly, and be in serious playoff contention, next year. If they don't, our support for current management will prove short-lived".
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  9. #249
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    ^ pretty fair assessment though I wouldn't dismiss the CCL achievement as simply a gift.

    As the season progressed, it became clear that success in the CCL would be the goal. And they achieved that, culminating in an impressive road win but also was marked with other memorable moments. Such as being able to adapt and win on aggregate with a "pre-transfer window" squad over a Vancouver team that beat us soundly 4-2 to start the year.

    IMO this tournament performance, which was largely conducted mid-week with plenty of travel, deserves at least equal billing with the infamous 2011 MLS record.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Out of the cauldron of all this Winter discussion, I see a pretty clear alignment of opinion now. I'd be willing to bet something like 80-90% of people would agree with the following statement about WinterMariner:

    "While it's immensely frustrating to have our team finish at the bottom of MLS again, we played a lot better in the second half. WinterMariner signed two DPs that were immediately effective, which is something not many managements in MLS have done in the DP market historically. We had an unexpected gift in the CCL. The Dero thing, well, while it may be a shame, who knows what would have happened if he had stayed, and you can't really blame WinterMariner for what happened.

    But it was a lost season, and many moves didn't pan out. So we expect the team to make good signings in the offseason, be competitive, start strongly, and be in serious playoff contention, next year. If they don't, our support for current management will prove short-lived".
    I think by now 80-90% of people would agree with your statement,myself included.
    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post

    IMO [the CCL] tournament performance, which was largely conducted mid-week with plenty of travel, deserves at least equal billing with the infamous 2011 MLS record.
    I have a different take, based on how Dallas did down the stretch, but this is a valid view too.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I have a different take, based on how Dallas did down the stretch, but this is a valid view too.
    Don't forget that it took an act of God for TFC to even make it in.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Out of the cauldron of all this Winter discussion, I see a pretty clear alignment of opinion now. I'd be willing to bet something like 80-90% of people would agree with the following statement about WinterMariner:

    "While it's immensely frustrating to have our team finish at the bottom of MLS again, we played a lot better in the second half. WinterMariner signed two DPs that were immediately effective, which is something not many managements in MLS have done in the DP market historically. We had an unexpected gift in the CCL. The Dero thing, well, while it may be a shame, who knows what would have happened if he had stayed, and you can't really blame WinterMariner for what happened.

    But it was a lost season, and many moves didn't pan out. So we expect the team to make good signings in the offseason, be competitive, start strongly, and be in serious playoff contention, next year. If they don't, our support for current management will prove short-lived".
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by menefreghista View Post
    Don't forget the act of God that it took to make it in the first place.
    True, but in the the initial NCC Final match, TFC was only down 1-0, and they were pressing for the equalizer with time to spare before the match was eventually cancelled.

    In any case, the club still deserves credit for compiling an impressive record in the CCL the rest of the way with what was essentially a new roster.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Out of the cauldron of all this Winter discussion, I see a pretty clear alignment of opinion now. I'd be willing to bet something like 80-90% of people would agree with the following statement about WinterMariner:

    "While it's immensely frustrating to have our team finish at the bottom of MLS again, we played a lot better in the second half. WinterMariner signed two DPs that were immediately effective, which is something not many managements in MLS have done in the DP market historically. We had an unexpected gift in the CCL. The Dero thing, well, while it may be a pity, who knows what would have happened if he had stayed, and you can't really blame WinterMariner for what happened.

    But it was a lost season, and many moves didn't pan out. So we expect the team to make good signings in the offseason, be competitive, start strongly, and be in serious playoff contention, next year. If they don't, our support for current management will prove short-lived".
    fixed.

    also don't forget the loss of two CB to injury and Nana we now know had some personal issues he couldn't shake from the diplomatic elements that have been mentioned. So that is three CBs gone and the Major goal scoring threat. That is what people seem to forget, we loss both our offense and defense early, while learning a new system. heck while learning what a system was.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    fixed.

    also don't forget the loss of two CB to injury and Nana we now know had some personal issues he couldn't shake from the diplomatic elements that have been mentioned. So that is three CBs gone and the Major goal scoring threat. That is what people seem to forget, we loss both our offense and defense early, while learning a new system. heck while learning what a system was.
    It is what it is. Frankly even with Cann in the lineup i don't think anyone is going to fool themselves into saying "he's the CB" we've been looking for to stabilize the back.

    As far as "learning the system" goes ... well the only reason you do something like that in the short term is if you're better off in the long run. So it only serves to underscore what ensco has said about expectations for next year.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    It is what it is. Frankly even with Cann in the lineup i don't think anyone is going to fool themselves into saying "he's the CB" we've been looking for to stabilize the back.

    As far as "learning the system" goes ... well the only reason you do something like that in the short term is if you're better off in the long run. So it only serves to underscore what ensco has said about expectations for next year.

    True, but but when you lose two of your CB to injury, and only have your back ups and playing people out of position, it's going to have an effect. And yes there are going be goals that Cann or Nana (in form) would have stopped over Harden.

    There would have been points we picked up that we lost out on.

    It wasn't going make us amazing but it would have made us less bad during the low point of the season.

    But yes next season needs to have results and all signs point that we will be good to go. Might not the best team in the league but we are on the right track.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by denime View Post
    I think by now 80-90% of people would agree with your statement,myself included.
    +1, well said, ensco.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by menefreghista View Post
    Don't forget that it took an act of God for TFC to even make it in.
    We don't know that. We know we were one goal down with a lot of football to play when the game got called. We have no idea how the game would have played out if not called off.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    True, but but when you lose two of your CB to injury, and only have your back ups and playing people out of position, it's going to have an effect. And yes there are going be goals that Cann or Nana (in form) would have stopped over Harden.

    There would have been points we picked up that we lost out on.

    It wasn't going make us amazing but it would have made us less bad during the low point of the season.

    But yes next season needs to have results and all signs point that we will be good to go. Might not the best team in the league but we are on the right track.
    100% agree. Also worth noting that if Cann and Williams were fit it also means Iro probably wouldn't have been out there much (if we even would have signed him) and we probably would have been able to use Frings more in the midfield more than as a stop gap CB.

  20. #260
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    An interesting note on stats - Cochrane mentioned in the town hall that most of they key statistical indicators that are tied to succes on the pitch were way up after the transfer window. Things like possession in the attacking third (he mentioned others but I foget what they were).

    Obviously those are only indicators and need to get turned into results - but IMHO stats based purely on results only tell a limited story when trying to gauge if the team actually did improve.

  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post

    IMO this tournament performance, which was largely conducted mid-week with plenty of travel, deserves at least equal billing with the infamous 2011 MLS record.

    A handful of games vs an entire schedule is not a balance.

    Look at it like this, in October they won 1 out of 4 games. Pretty mediocre at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    An interesting note on stats - Cochrane mentioned in the town hall that most of they key statistical indicators that are tied to succes on the pitch were way up after the transfer window. Things like possession in the attacking third (he mentioned others but I foget what they were).

    Obviously those are only indicators and need to get turned into results - but IMHO stats based purely on results only tell a limited story when trying to gauge if the team actually did improve.

    Going from embarrassing to mediocre is not good enough.

  22. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Out of the cauldron of all this Winter discussion, I see a pretty clear alignment of opinion now. I'd be willing to bet something like 80-90% of people would agree with the following statement about WinterMariner:

    "While it's immensely frustrating to have our team finish at the bottom of MLS again, we played a lot better in the second half. WinterMariner signed two DPs that were immediately effective, which is something not many managements in MLS have done in the DP market historically. We had an unexpected gift in the CCL. The Dero thing, well, while it may be a shame, who knows what would have happened if he had stayed, and you can't really blame WinterMariner for what happened.

    But it was a lost season, and many moves didn't pan out. So we expect the team to make good signings in the offseason, be competitive, start strongly, and be in serious playoff contention, next year. If they don't, our support for current management will prove short-lived".
    This is a good summation of how I look at this season, though I think it was a bit harsh to characterize the CCL win as a gift.

    - Scott
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

 

 

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