MLS MVP discussion thread

[Roogsy]

According to one journalist, DeRo has a pretty good shot at it.

He also wrote this on the supposed "issue" of playing for 3 teams.

Some will make a big deal out of the fact that De Rosario played for three teams this season, but most voters will understand that Toronto FC traded him because of a contract dispute, not poor on-field performance. And New York voters know that he was dealt to D.C. United to make cap room for Designated Player keeper Frank Rost. In fact some NY votes might be influenced by how New York slumped after the Scarborough native left the club.

I have been saying it since it happened. I know it falls on deaf ears so those same deaf ears can pretend not to hear me say "I told you so."

Despite a faction of TFC fans who have chosen the revisionist-history route and have sidled the club’s all-time leading scorer with the “MeRo” tag, the fact is most Canadian voters will likely have gone with their guy.

Oh so very true.

[jabbronies]

hmmm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLS_MVP

Past MVP winners have won based on team performance, not just stats
An example is last year - Wando had more goals, but FCD player won

With that being said - I think Davis might win this one.

[Yohan]

IMO - MeRo for MVP based on stats.

Anyone have a list of past MVP's? Would be nice to see if they were solely based on stats or if other factors played a role. I have a feeling this is a stats heavy award.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_L...ccer_MVP_Award

[Cashcleaner]

It may also suggest that he's not particularly valuable.

Possibly. But for all we know, Soler and Backe could be regretting the price they had to pay for McCarty and Rost.

[Roogsy]

I know many NY fans that certainly do.

[Brooker]

According to one journalist, DeRo has a pretty good shot at it.

He also wrote this on the supposed "issue" of playing for 3 teams.

I have been saying it since it happened. I know it falls on deaf ears so those same deaf ears can pretend not to hear me say "I told you so."

Oh so very true.

Now I know why you didn't cite your source. Steve fucking Sander. Lmfao.

[Pookie]

IMO - MeRo for MVP based on stats.

Anyone have a list of past MVP's? Would be nice to see if they were solely based on stats or if other factors played a role. I have a feeling this is a stats heavy award.

A quick look at the last 3 seasons highlights that the MVP winner has not been the golden boot winner.

And not once in the last decade has the MVP come from a non-playoff team. 8 times it came from the team that finished First overall.

Odds are not in his favour.

[Shakes McQueen]

De Ro deserves it simply for being able to make positive contributions no matter what team he's on. The fact that the guy has gone through three different clubs in such a relatively short amount of time doesn't detract from his performance, if anything, it should give more weight to the argument in his favour. He's been able to succeed almost anywhere he goes.

Objectively, if you base your MVP vote purely on statistics, I think DeRo should get it. MVP voting is always pretty nebulous though - for an example, read some of the convoluted pap MLB writers have to say about how they decide who to vote for.

Now I know why you didn't cite your source. Steve fucking Sander. Lmfao.

Who is Steve Sander, and why is it funny?

- Scott

[Fort York Redcoat]

hmmm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLS_MVP

Past MVP winners have won based on team performance, not just stats
An example is last year - Wando had more goals, but FCD player won

With that being said - I think Davis might win this one.

Wow. Interesting to see Preki '03 and Guevara '04 right after.



I put more into the Supporter's Shield than playoffs and MLS cup so by that definition I'd have to vote for someone on LA if I could bring myself to. Which I can't and is why I don't vote for these things.

DeRo is no MVP of the regular season because players play for a team.

DeRo has the golden boot award and I'll throw him a "Most Valuable Asset to be Traded" award.

These awards will hopefully be accompanied by the all-time leading scorer for Canada award by end of next Tuesday.

[jabbronies]

A quick look at the last 3 seasons highlights that the MVP winner has not been the golden boot winner.

And not once in the last decade has the MVP come from a non-playoff team. 8 times it came from the team that finished First overall.

Odds are not in his favour.

The playoffs weigh heavily in this choice. Not surprised seeing that the MLS Cup is considered more of a celebration and spectacle than Supporters Shield by the league.

2/3 teams MeRo played for this year have not made the playoffs. Doesn't look promising for him.

[JonO]

Yeah - the counterpoint to DeRo is the one Chevy is making... if he has been at 3 different clubs in one year, can he really be the MVP? I guess it depends on what you are looking for in an MVP...

Edit: oops - missed this entire third page when I posted, but regardless of the reasons - two trades in one season will affect the vote.

[rocker]

Yeah - the counterpoint to DeRo is the one Chevy is making... if he has been at 3 different clubs in one year, can he really be the MVP? I guess it depends on what you are looking for in an MVP...

Edit: oops - missed this entire third page when I posted, but regardless of the reasons - two trades in one season will affect the vote.

Another way to look at it: if something is valuable, you hold on to it, right? Two teams in the same season decided not to hold on to De Ro, questioning just how valuable he is, particularly in the marketplace of Major League Soccer.

That's not to say he isn't one of the better players in the league, depending on circumstances. But "most valuable" is a pretty high test and two teams basically implied he wasn't the most valuable on their teams. That says a lot to me.

The raw stats on De Ro are strong, but if we only regarded stats in the equation, most defenders and keepers probably wouldn't win.

[Pookie]

USA Today reports that:

"Houston Dynamo's Brad Davis, D.C. United's Dwayne De Rosario and FC Dallas' Brek Shea are the finalists for MLS MVP"

Considering Houston is in the Final and the history of the award, gotta give the inside edge to Davis.

[Roogsy]

Yeah - the counterpoint to DeRo is the one Chevy is making... if he has been at 3 different clubs in one year, can he really be the MVP? I guess it depends on what you are looking for in an MVP...

Edit: oops - missed this entire third page when I posted, but regardless of the reasons - two trades in one season will affect the vote.

What matters is the impact he has on a team, whether it be all season or part of the season.

We have guys voting in the RPB members forum on the MVP for TFC. A chunk of those guys barely played 13 games for us and yet earned significant votes. So a player can earn MVP votes for playing 13 games but a player who plays 18 games probably shouldn't because he played for other teams? How so?

DeRo scored 13 goals in 18 games for DC United keeping them in the playoff hunt. The DC boards are lit up about how DeRo was the only thing worth watching about that team all year long and how awful the season would have been without him (kind of like my point about our DPs). That kind of talk should be expected of a potential MVP no? Does it matter that what sent him out of TFC was a contract dispute not his play? Or that TFC tanked right after they got rid of him? Does it matter that NY needed to stop leaking goals and DeRo was their only tradeable asset? And tanked right after getting rid of him?

People talk as if being traded is an automatic sign of loss of value. I don't know where that came from but I certainly don't agree with it, regardless if it's DeRo or not.

[Pookie]

^ Let's be factual. "Significant votes" in the RPB Man of the Year amounts to half the votes that the winner received. Highlighting that the majority of folks believe that MVP is not a part time job.

DeRo will earn significant votes but whether he has enough to carry him over the top is the question.

Davis had a league leading 16 assists on a team that reached the Cup Final. Some might consider that total picture to have more value.

[Roogsy]

^ Let's be factual. "Significant votes" in the RPB Man of the Year amounts to half the votes that the winner received. Highlighting that the majority of folks believe that MVP is not a part time job.

DeRo will earn significant votes but whether he has enough to carry him over the top is the question.

Davis had a league leading 16 assists on a team that reached the Cup Final. Some might consider that total picture to have more value.

I don't disagree. If Davis wins, I think it's deserved. But certainly not a judgement of DeRo's accomplishments. But I also think if DeRo wins, there is good reason for it. The fact that he is down to the last 3 choices says something on it's own doesn't it? There are 400+ other players in the league to choose from, including TFC players and yet this is the 3 that have earned the top votes regardless of who won the award. In essence, DeRo has already succeeded. It's only a matter of how much he succeeded.

[Pookie]

Hey, 2 for 2 in near agreements lately.

This peace thing is working

[Roogsy]

By the way, 37% voted for any one of the players that didn't even play half the year for us. It's not half, but I do believe that would indicate there is also a large segment that don't place a lot of stock in the full year aspect of it. Assuming the the half that did vote for the winner truly believe that his play earned him the distinction and most probably did not consider his length of time with the team this year, I'd say there is a pretty good chance that most don't consider the "part time" aspect to be a major consideration. Not to say it isn't a consideration at all. I am sure it is.

[Whoop]

Thierry Henry weighs in.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/soccer...FvXpU38zeFs4AJ

[Yohan]

Dear Thierry Henry,

Landon Donovan is the face of the league

[Chevy]

Forgetting my personal opinions for a second, I believe that two trades will definitely work against him from a vote-getting perspective.

The GM's from Dallas, Houston, TFC and NYRB will almost certainly not vote for him - either they have one of their own in the race or traded DeRo away during the season. Logic here being you're not going to cast an MVP vote for a guy you discarded.

You could also make the case for players from those same four teams not voting for him, but that could go either way depending if they played with DeRo Jekyll or Dero Hyde. Admittedly this is weak speculation on my part.

Regardless of the stats or any other comparisons you may put out there, he's at a disadvantage having four clubs "against" him rather than only two for the other candidates.

[Roogsy]

TFC fans know better than Thierry fucking Henry.

[Shakes McQueen]

Dear Thierry Henry,

Landon Donovan is the face of the league

He doesn't say DeRo is the face of the league. He says he should be.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

TFC fans know better than Thierry fucking Henry.

Being Thierry Henry doesn't give him any special clairvoyance into who the face of the league is. If anything, being a Johnny-Come-Lately to the league diminishes his "expertise" on the subject (if there is such a thing).

Though as I mentioned before, it's moot. He never asserted DeRo was the face of the league.

- Scott

[ochos]

Thierry Henry weighs in.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/soccer...FvXpU38zeFs4AJ

Great article - to me it points out the short-comings of the league, not necessarily any coaches or players. Let's hope the next CBA allows this league to flourish even more

[Roogsy]

Being Thierry Henry doesn't give him any special clairvoyance into who the face of the league is. If anything, being a Johnny-Come-Lately to the league diminishes his "expertise" on the subject (if there is such a thing).

Though as I mentioned before, it's moot. He never asserted DeRo was the face of the league.

- Scott

Not talking about that, personally I do think Donovan can be considered the "face of the league". I think that has to do with his work on the national squad on top of MLS. If DeRo were American and playing on the national squad, I think he'd have a shot at it, but that's neither here nor there. I am talking about the recognition he gets everywhere but here. What's the expression? "A prophet hath no honour in his own country."

I've been defending DeRo for 6 months now. I should have just waited for him to show his abilities himself and let people stew in their own prejudice.

[Cashcleaner]

Objectively, if you base your MVP vote purely on statistics, I think DeRo should get it. MVP voting is always pretty nebulous though - for an example, read some of the convoluted pap MLS writers have to say about how they decide who to vote for.

Oh for sure. Everyone has their own measuring stick to work with, and stats are not likely to be the only consideration - though I suspect for many it does have more weight.

[Keegan]

No player in this league can single handedly be valuable enough to lift their team into the playoffs.. so it's unfair to place more weight on that than stats. I think DeRo deserves it this season.

[ArmenJBX]

The very logic of De Rosario winning MVP is ridiculous.

Most Valuable Player. That means, he is, by far, the most valuable player. Thus, in his year, there is no player more valuable than him.

De Rosario was traded for Toni Tchani + Danleigh Borman + Draft Pick. That means that this combination is more valuable than De Rosario.

He was then traded for Dax McCarty. If someone is the most valuable player, then a man for man swap means Dax McCarty is more valuable than De Rosario is.

An MVP shouldn't be playing for three clubs in one season. Yes, he may have performed like a superstar but being traded twice reduces it's value tremendously.

[Alonso]

Dear Thierry Henry,

Landon Donovan is the face of the league

I love the fact that Thierry is gushing about Dwayne and post match in Toronto about Stinson.

Two Canadian talents that are being praised by someone like Henry is a good thing imo.