My position on the CCL is well known. I wont dwell on it here. If not literally for an act of God and the good fortune of a team imploding, we wouldn't be getting a whiff of the knockout rounds. I prefer not to have to count on luck.
And it's a good attempt at setting up a strawman argument. We've already proven the math that moving DeRo was not integral to acquiring the new DPs.
yet you stated tfc's position while conveniently leaving out their CCL performanceOriginally Posted by Roogsy
Sure I didnt elaborate on the full season because that is not what this thread is about.Is there anything inaccurate in my post? Unless there is I dont see how things change regarding DeRo. Given that he did help us win the NCC twice the only queston is whether we would have beat an imploding Dallas to get into the knockout stages, since pretty much everyone was beating Dallas in the last two months of the season. I think most people wouldnt doubt it very much. Rendering the CCL point moot with regards to TFC getting value for DeRo.
the same imploding dallas team that the mls experts at mlssoccer.com said would beat TFC
you pointed out just the negatives, thats all i was getting at.
i'm gonna follow this all up with a massive pm in a few...
DeRo's happy with DP money minus the status? Good for him. Hope this happiness means he can continue his contribution to Canada. D.C.'s success isn't a big priority for me anymore than RSL and Will Johnson.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Talking about Eastern division teams that aren't a priority, the Limpact have cut their captain:
MONTREAL — After 17 seasons as a face of the franchise, Nevio Pizzolitto won’t be suiting up with the Montreal Impact for Major League Soccer.
The 35-year-old defender, team captain the past two seasons, was released along with defender Simon Gatti by the club Monday.Pizzolitto has been with the organization since 1994 and made his debut with the club in 1995 at age 17.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Impact+cuts+captain+Pizzolitto/6181771/story.html
Considering how important he's been to the team over the years it's a bit of a shock, and reminds one of Jimmy B's retirement.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 02-21-2012 at 09:21 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
^ That's cutthroat.
wow, for someone who loves to pick apart other people's posts for any minor indiscretion which you believe renders their argument moot, and apparently loves to deal with just bare facts, that's a hell of a statement to be coming out with.
you're assuming that with de ro, we'd have won the CCL, and got to the point where a dallas victory would get us through to the quarters, and would have beaten dallas.
then you say that your assumptions (which is all they are, nothing more) are good enough to render other arguments moot.
that is outrageously hypocritical.
So DeRo didn't help us win two NCCs?
Dallas was not imploding at the time we faced them?
What material information do we have now that would change the assumption that the results for the CCL would have been the same or different had DeRo been with the club?
Unless there is something out there that points to a different probable result, I am not sure why bringing up the CCL results as evidence of why DeRo's departure was necessary is a relevant point or that my assuming of similar results with him is hypocritical? If you could explain it to me, I'd love to hear it.
Are my assumptions good enough? Within the context of how TFC made it this far, was there something that would have changed with DeRo that would change my assumptions? That's the only thing I can imagine would change the argument as it pertains to the CCL. The question here is what were the biggest influences on TFC making it to the knockout rounds? Was it our play? In both rounds, both in the NCC and the CCL round robin, we were on the verge of being elminated and if not for a couple of instances of great luck (like I said before) we'd be on the outside looking in. Would DeRo have changed that luck? Would having DeRo stopped the downpour of rain at the initial Whitecaps game? Would it have stopped Dallas' implosion? The only other factor I can imagine would influence this argument is that having DeRo would have made us a poorer team where even with a 2nd kick at the can vs Vancouver and taking on a team falling apart, we would have still been so poor as to not win the games we actually did. If that is your argument, you'd have to make a new DeRo thread to discuss it.
Last edited by Roogsy; 02-21-2012 at 09:59 AM.
The assumption that we were on the verge of being eliminated by Vancouver is not valid. We were a goal down with 60 minutes played. That is hardly on the verge of being eliminated. On the replay, we went down a goal at nearly the same time as well.
That's not to say that we would have won the initial fixture, but it is not a fair call to say that were were saved by luck on that night.
Last edited by brad; 02-21-2012 at 10:20 AM.
Anyway - on topic - glad DeRo got his contract. He deserves it, and hopefully it's a distraction out of the way when it comes to WC qualifiers.
Toronto needed a draw to take the game into extra time or a win vs Vancouver to move on outright. Failing to score in those remaining 30 minutes would have meant elimination, meaning we needed 2 goals in that game to advance and kept Vancouver to their single goal. A game we were not dominating and a game where we did not have our two DPs. Again, context. Remember that this was a team that in the league was on their way to a -46 goal diff (on a prorated basis) for the season. If you tell me you believe that particular team was going to score 2 against Teitur Tot's Whitecaps, so be it, it could have happened. But it certainly didn't look like it. I remember how we were playing that day, I don't particularly remember feeling we had a chance.
And if I remember correctly, the game in Toronto was the return leg, not the initial leg of the championship.
Football is such a wonderful game. Momentum switches often, the game is very unpredictable.
My advice would be enjoy it for what it is. Who would have thought 6-1 would have happened?
Again - I reiterate - nothing between the rained out match and replay materially changed. We were not dominating the rained out match, but neither were Vancouver.
Well, we did not have the DP's or the revamped squad when we beat Vancouver in the replay, and we did it with the same team that had the -46 goal difference that you mention, so yes, I do beleive that we could have won the first leg. Context indeed...A game we were not dominating and a game where we did not have our two DPs. Again, context. Remember that this was a team that in the league was on their way to a -46 goal diff (on a prorated basis) for the season. If you tell me you believe that particular team was going to score 2 against Teitur Tot's Whitecaps, so be it, it could have happened. But it certainly didn't look like it. I remember how we were playing that day, I don't particularly remember feeling we had a chance.
The return was at home - by initial fixture I meant the rained out one, not the first leg in Vancouver.And if I remember correctly, the game in Toronto was the return leg, not the initial leg of the championship.
Last edited by brad; 02-21-2012 at 11:32 AM.
Given that we had not one but two CCL games abandoned due to freakish weather, my assumption is we were/are destined to win.
I beg to differ. Vancouver had several chances to widen their lead. That was not a game we were going to win. And I disagree even more with the "nothing materially changed" opinion on Vancouver. If you don't call the change from Teitur Tots to Soehn a "material change" I don't know what would qualify as such. Under TT, the Whitecaps were drawing a heckuvalot of games. Under Soehn, they started dropping more points. Their team and results changed significantly when the coaching changed happened including their results. The fact that we played them within such a short time of the coaching change is also very material in my eyes.
In my opinion, we played a significantly different team from one game to the other. It was that opportunity to play a team in disarray instead of a team building that made a big difference. A similar stroke of good luck that was repeated against Dallas. Now, TFC took care of business and put both opportunities away. I cannot discredit that. But to not acknowledge the remarkable good luck (which we were due given some of the bad luck in previous years) is to ignore a significant detail in how the events played out.
since every one is off topic on this thread...
montreal april 7th... go to the match boys
now back to your regular programming
"I cannot discredit that. But to not acknowledge the remarkable good luck (which we were due given some of the bad luck in previous years) is to ignore a significant detail in how the events played out."
Destiny, not good luck.
Not in disagreement with your post. Just the sentence bolded. You are purely assuming here. You cannot back that up with any facts no matter how hard you try. You make your own luck my friend.....mementum in a match is just that momentum. Until a final whistle is blown IMHO you can have all the momentum and still lose.
Anyway......regardless of how the NCC or CCL was won.....it doesn't really matter. Saying freakish thunder showers or Dallas stinking makes absolutely no difference in my opinion.
Anything can happen on any given day. Even you know that Roogsy. I am sure you have seen an Irish Micky Ward fight or two in your day....Momentum can shift at any given time....
Don't you remember that rainy night in Giants stadium when a momentum driven TFC played the hapless last place NYRB squad. I was there and so were you. TFC going into that match had drawn two and won its last match...and NYRB had drawn one lost its last two. How does this differ from the arguement you are making about TFC playing a Dallas squad that everyone could beat....if you go by this arguement TFC should have beaten the NYRB easily that fateful day.
Anything can happen my friend......(Please don't kill me......
)
Follow me...... https://twitter.com/#!/aGeRoO76
"Just like JDG. It wasn't a post-and-in shot, but JDG is smart & experienced" - Carts
I think I get it now. Any success with DeRo on the pitch was caused by, and ONLY caused by his outrageous, supreme god-given talent. The other ten men on the pitch? Not relevant. Playing beer-leaguers? Not important.
Conversely, any success without him is qualified as ONLY the result of luck, mother nature and the misfortune of others conspiring to provide miracles of victory. Do I have this right? What an arrogant, self-centred and narcissistic view of the world you have. How unfortunate.
Regardless, here's a newsflash for you Bud - the club is better off without him. On and off the pitch. Time to admit it and move on - make your 50+ nearly-identical negative posts per day on another board. I'm also sure you can pick up your DC kit online somewhere.
WELCOME TO THE RPB BOARDS, WE'VE GONE
0 DAYS
SINCE SOMEONE LAST ARGUED WITH ROOGSY
(i kid of course)
"I cannot discredit that. But to not acknowledge the remarkable good luck (which we were due given some of the bad luck in previous years) is to ignore a significant detail in how the events played out."
Destiny, not good luck.Could be...could be...Not in disagreement with your post. Just the sentence bolded. You are purely assuming here. You cannot back that up with any facts no matter how hard you try. You make your own luck my friend.....mementum in a match is just that momentum. Until a final whistle is blown IMHO you can have all the momentum and still lose.
Anyway......regardless of how the NCC or CCL was won.....it doesn't really matter. Saying freakish thunder showers or Dallas stinking makes absolutely no difference in my opinion.
Anything can happen on any given day. Even you know that Roogsy. I am sure you have seen an Irish Micky Ward fight or two in your day....
Don't you remember that rainy night in Giants stadium when a momentum driven TFC played the hapless last place NYRB squad. I was there and so were you. TFC going into that match had drawn two and won its last match...and NYRB had drawn one lost its last two. How does this differ from the arguement you are making about TFC playing a Dallas squad that everyone could beat....if you go by this arguement TFC should have beaten the NYRB easily that fateful day.
Anything can happen my friend......
we need a poll!
list all the DPs in the league and put yes/no to see if they can score 10 goals
Ha ha....I'll chalk that up as a win in my column. I'll take could be as a response from you my friend.Could be...could be...
Let's hope the "DESTINY" continues on March 7th.....one thing we can agree on.
Follow me...... https://twitter.com/#!/aGeRoO76
"Just like JDG. It wasn't a post-and-in shot, but JDG is smart & experienced" - Carts
LOL!
If I see "DESTINY" on a banner, I will chuckle. Get'r done Al-Mo!
I've got a C-note on JDG scoring 10.
Follow me...... https://twitter.com/#!/aGeRoO76
"Just like JDG. It wasn't a post-and-in shot, but JDG is smart & experienced" - Carts
Just don't let any of the TFCdreamjob candidates make the banner with the spelling errors and grammar I've seen in the bios.....or we might be a team of.......
DENSITY
Follow me...... https://twitter.com/#!/aGeRoO76
"Just like JDG. It wasn't a post-and-in shot, but JDG is smart & experienced" - Carts
wait.. we got samuels and gerba back? lolJust don't let any of the TFCdreamjob candidates make the banner with the spelling errors and grammar I've seen in the bios.....or we might be a team of.......
DENSITY
didn't we hit the post or have the ball cleared off the goaline just before the game was called?
We should take a poll of how many people here can name all of the DPs in the league (without consulting Wikipedia
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
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