Why New York Red Bulls aren't as good...
Interesting article...
http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/...york-red-bulls
I do think the main reason why NYRB is sucking is that they lack grit. Without Tainio NY has been very soft esp on defence. If NY gets another hardnosed DM, they will be back on track.
Interesting part about role of Henry in NY in the article
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
good article, good insight
Their downfall has coincided with the De Rosario for McCarty trade.
HAHAHA
dunno bout that, its defense thats the prob not scoring
Or maybe their star studded line up covers up Hans Backe's weakness as a coach?Originally Posted by menefreghista
Their downfall has coincided with the De Rosario for McCarty trade.
I thought Hans Backe was a genius???????Or maybe their star studded line up covers up Hans Backe's weakness as a coach?
That's how I remember it!
Actually I don't believe Hans Backe is a genius, I think he was smart enough to do what was necessary to get results in MLS. And he did, for an entire season, and well into this season.
What we may be seeing is Backe overthinking things. You can either view it as a coincidence or you can view it as an influencing factor, but there is no denying that since DeRo left, NYRB has been terrible. What made him change his mind? I don't know. I spoke with Backe in May and he was very happy with DeRo but for some reason felt they needed to change things up in June. Looks like the change didn't work. And like Winter, tinkering with things the wrong way can produce very poor results.
But at the end of the day, he's still getting better results than Winter.
One interesting thing about the article, and a point that I think is a negative for both Backe AND Winter it's that it seems to point to a focus on defense as an important factor in NY's turnaround from it's poor record. And yet both Backe and Winter can be blamed this year for failing to do that. Backe did it last year and this year seems to have completely ignored it, doing what Winter has done and going for broke on the offense.
Although I would never want to go back to Preki's ways, there simply is no denying that the best teams in MLS have strong, competent defenses and certainly don't let in the number of goals both NY and Toronto have allowed this year. Especially Toronto. Our goal differential and our goals allowed statistics alone are reason enough to doubt Winter. It's not poor. It's embarrassing. It's historically bad.
Last edited by Roogsy; 08-09-2011 at 09:01 AM.
NYRB are tied for the 8th playoff spot with 30 points out of 24 games. It's a virtual certainty they'll make the post-season and I think they have a good shot at going fairly deep into it, too. They're simply out of form at the moment. I don't think they're "sucking."
Also, found this line amusing: "the Red Bulls' focus this season has been to play the “right” way - like an MLS version of Arsenal, Ajax or Barcelona." Sound familiar?
Interesting... I guess NY will have a chance to prove whether it can work in MLS.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
New York, and several other MLS clubs have adopted variations of the 4-3-3 recently. I don't know why TFC has been singled out in some media circles for treading unchartered waters in MLS this season.
Name a team that LOSES it's 2 starting CBs early in the season, and STILL HAS A GOOD defense??? People have very short memories...If we had Cann and Williams we'd be in MUCH better shape...
Don't think it's fair to say Winter is ignoring the back line. We've had a lot of injuries there, and he's tried quite a few combinations there. We simply won't get a top flight central defender in the middle of the season anyway. But at the end of the day, you have to start rebuilding a team somewhere, and he's largely concentrated on the midfield, which makes sense as it's the most important part.
The comments about playing the "right way" are interesting. You can argue Arsenal plays the right way, but they haven't won anything in over five years. Need a combination of playing the right way and some players with grit and leadership in the midfield. New York doesn't have that right now.
I mean no disrespect, truly....but unless you have a relationship with the coach, I think what Backe said to you is not worth much. Doesn't what any coach says about Player X to an outsider have to be taken with a gigantic grain of salt?
Backe's public statements to the press about his unhappiness re the Gold Cup are a lot more meaningful, for me anyway.
Not disputing the validity of the convo you had in any way, btw.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Not at all. He may have been merely voicing platitudes, you're right. But that was the conversation, I can't provide any more insight than what he gave me.
Not to mention, if his trading of DeRo was for Gold Cup reasons then it wasn't his play that caused the trade (as some would argue) and frankly if a coach is that upset that a player wants to play for his country, I would view that as being quite unreasonable. Especially when the game wasn't on the other side of the world but rather an hour's flight away.
Last edited by Roogsy; 08-09-2011 at 09:45 AM.
We really aren't going to accept a simple "cause" and "effect" link between NY Red Bulls 1-3-3 record since they shipped out DeRo and ignore their 2010 season which was deemed the model for rebuilding which didn't include the Dwayner at all?
I'm sure there are lots of variables at play and deep down, I know you are too.
For me Redbulls 'sucking' is still an enviable track record for sure, that being said they could be doing alot better with waht they have
You seem to be the only one dwelling on the point.
My comment was flippant.
But you are always trying to tear down De Rosario so its not surprising you can't let it go.
He was MLS Player of the Week again by the way.
I brought up Backe. Someone else brought up the Dwayner.
Yep, Player of the Week again.
Scoring 3 goals against us.
Keep grinning. It's what a supporter does... I think.
I'm just laughing at how wrong you were on the guy.
I missed it where he got his DP contract?
I believe you'll find that I said if he shuts up and plays out his current contract, I'd cheer him on.
My points were all about age over the term of a contract, the use of the DP slot and the baggage that makes him a less than ideal leader.
Anyways, I'm sure that the Board isn't up for another thread about DeRo.
we arent
I think NYRB have two major variables that have hurt their season:
1) goaltending until they signed Rost
2) fixture congestion
When I did my study of the eastern teams and how many days of rest they had between games (TFC being by far the team with the lowest days of rest) NYRB wasn't doing too well in that regard. But after doing my study, NYRB seemed to have more games in midweek and then they went to London for Emirates Cup. I think fixture congestion is underrated as a factor by MLS fans, who seem to think all teams having equality in scheduling.
I think fixture congestion can have an effect but not to the degree that we've seen with NY. I think Backe's departure from a defensive mindset has hurt them more than anything, and I had never thought of the Angel angle until the article, but maybe there is some weight to that argument?
But I haven't seen a significant degree of fixture congestion that could explain their poor form lately.
This is not MLS specific. All the best teams in any league have good defenses, even if the attack gets the attention.
You don't win in football with a crappy defense.
True, true...
What's your sample size?
I'm looking at the post-De Ro period (after June 27).
Since De Ro left, they have had about the same amount of rest between games as TFC in the early season, when I did my study a month ago, and TFC was by far the worst team in the east for rest at that point.
NYRB also travelled to another continent and played two games in two days at Emirates Cup (so essentially the whole roster played in those two days).
NYRB have had 11 games in 39 days, which is a game every 3.54 days. You don't think that's a factor in their lack of form since De Ro left?
I think losing Marquez is probably a major factor in their defensive problems too, not a lack of focus on defense. And even when they had De Ro, goaltending was a major problem, as Sutton wasn't good and neither was Condoul.
Last edited by rocker; 08-09-2011 at 10:37 AM.
It's kinda like you attributing Dero's goal production being down this year to simply his age. Cause at 33 he was supposed to turn into a pumpkin. While completely ignoring the fact he went to a whole nother team, playing a different role then the role where he wasn't expected to the be producing goals as he was with TFC.
So, I'm sure you can see that you do the same thing yourself.
I think as it goes on it does have an effect, I am not denying it. But NY lost 2 games in the immediate 4 games following his departure and their only win was against an extremely poor side.
What else changed with NYRB at the time DeRo left? Any other players in or our (with injury). Did Marquez get injured around the same time?
Also, I believe their slide around that time was due to terrible keeper errors.
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