I'm all for giving second and third chances to new, rusty players, but he's been absolutely abysmal. Making mistakes that little children wouldn't make while costing us points.
I know we needed to score, but having Iro go one on one against DeRo was poor management. If we needed to go three at the back, why not slot Eckersley into the middle instead of keeping a very slow-footed Andy Iro on to do the job?
Eckersley has been soso the few times he played in CB, also hes best used offensively and has stated he hates playing CB.
agreed.Originally Posted by Canary10
Im not too worried as we look great everywhere else on the pitch, all it will take is two or 3 decent signings in the off season and we will have a contending team.
true, we look better than we have in a long time talent wise in midfield and up front, we've got a good rb, a plethora of okish cb's. we need 1 really good cb, and a good lb, which morgan isn't yet. people like iro and harden would suddenly look a lot more competent with good people around them.
a playmaker AM and a stud CB. assuming Eck and Plata stays
though probably better assessed after the end of the season to see what the team really needs
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
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I would say our glaring issue is the CBs as we all know. I am satisfied with Morgan at LB for the time being. I am ok with him learning on the job. He throws in some fantastic crosses and gets up in the play a lot. Yes he is tracking back a lot, but he will learn his positioning properly in due time.
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Iro was playing with Julius James in Columbus. We decided not to retain JJ in a trade and instead of offering us JJ the Crew decided it was ok to trade their Player of The Year from last season.
So what does that say about our ability to judge talent? Or put together a quality team.
To me this looks like the works of an organization that decides to hire a 14 year old professional boy scout.
Yup. Those boys scouts are great at finding talents like Plata, Johnson, Koevermans, Frings and Eckersley.
Really? You are referring to the same regime that inherited a roster with several deficiencies all over the pitch prior to the season. In the span of 20 games, they have used the transfer window wisely, and have made several transactions within the league to assemble a a far more competent starting lineup, with the exception of the central defense. In fairness, most clubs in MLS would have a difficult time recovering from the loss of their two starting centre backs for the entire season.
What about the scouting involved to steal Joao Plata in the 3rd round of the draft, or the acquisitions of Ryan Johnson, Terry Dunfield, Peri Marosevic, and Eric Avila?
If you are going to make a blanket statement, you should base it on all of Winter and Mariner's player acquisitions, not just one player that has underachieved.
I will remind folks that every manager in the world, including those at the very top of the game sign absolute dud's from time to time.
I do still think it's too early to write Iro off. He does look bad, but he also came to us without playing in months and a series of mistakes seems to have destroyed his confidence. No player plays well when short on confidence.
[quote=brad;1358549]I will remind folks that every manager in the world, including those at the very top of the game sign absolute dud's from time to time. quote]
That's true. Does the name Fernando Torres mean anything to anyone? And we didn't have to spend 50 million pounds for ours....
Alright, before we break our arms patting ourselves on the back I think it's necessary we step back and look at the complete picture. I like the players you listed, hell I'll even throw Decoy Williams on top of that because I think he's decent. But ... with the exceptions of the DP's and Eckersley I question whether these guys are as good as their opposite numbers and that's really the battle we're fighting here if we want to climb up the table.
Also outside of these guys, I want to mention the names Soolsma, Yourassowski, Martina, Iro, and Viator. All current management signings, all are crap or have performed like crap to date. The hit to miss ratio is getting sketchy.
The bottom line is that in totality this team is a function of its record, and you can start-top at any point you want with the new signings, it's still bad. The boy scouts need to identify more regular roster players that make an impact if we're going to get out of the basement.
When Fernando Torres turns it around you can start using that as a point.
And Iro has been so terrible "bad" doesn't even begin to describe it. Bad would be an improvement.
I was using him as an example of a top manager selecting a dud.....
That signing probably went a long way to costing "top manager" his job.
Assuming you want Winter to keep his, that's not acting as much of a defense.
I'm not defending anyone, just saying there are countless examples of dud signings by high level managers.
People who use the word irregardless should never be misunderestimated.
Maybe Kurt pulled a Roger Clemens and misremembered. LOL
Plata was a steal of a pick. Eckersley has been a revelation.
Have there been misses? Absolutely (Stevanovic comes to mind). But comparing our management team to a "14 year old boy scout" is ignorant and contributes less than nothing to discussion.
Do you really want to do a side by side comparison of the current vs. the last regime? I'd say the hit/miss is overwhelmingly on the side of Mariner's TFC right now.
Wow, so according to "You People" the egg comes before the chicken.
Who is the only known scout on TFC's payroll? Tim Reagan.
If we had "professional" scouts we wouldnt have to wait until someone else drafts a player and two years down the line to find if he's worth trading for in the future.
I don't think Reagan scouts for TFC anymore.
One of Winter's points in his state of the union media interviews a few weeks back was that they're putting in place a professional scouting system. Good move.
Just me or did we put out an unusually "strong" reserves side?
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/08...ves-come-short
Soolsma, Yourassowsky, Sturgis.Toronto FC: Milos Kocic; Dasan Robinson, Eddy Viator, Nathan Kelsey (Tyler Pasher 46'), Mikael Yourassowsky; Sergio Camargo (Matt Gold 46'), Nathan Sturgis, Oscar Cordon; Nick Soolsma (Demitrius Omphroy 46'), Stefan Vukovic, Javier Martina (Keith Makubuya 59')
We're so blessed with depth that we can afford to do that.
Plenty of other examples out there. Evra was so bad in his first appearance for United that he was subbed at half. Both him and Vidic both looked like complete flops in their first half season. How many appearances did it take Diego Forlan to score his first goal for United?
Point is - picking an individual out and using it as an example of shortcoming of our management tells us nothing. Every manager signs flops. Some will be unmitigated failures, others will not be.
Last edited by brad; 08-08-2011 at 01:49 PM.
I dont think Soolsma is that bad he still dances around defenders even if he looks like its being done in molasses, Yourassowsky is definitely an off the bench guy, Martina is definitely a flop
I don't think Martina is a flop at all. It's not like he's making some serious money and it's not like he's old. I see a lot of talent in him and at 24, he's like a kid who just came out of the draft. Personally, I think he can still compete for that right wing job longer term and shortern term he can be used off the bench.
Fair enough, to me i havent seen enough to keep him around, too inconsistent and when he plays his best, its only soso. How much is he making?
I dont mind keeping him around, just think we can do better. I actually think Soolsma is more effective.
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