I'm sure if people wanted to be lawyers they could find examples of all kinds of players throwing each other "under the bus". Example: Javier Martina quotes in espn.Originally Posted by maninb
I've said it before, I'll say it again: we're not running a country club here and collecting the nicest, most pleasant collection of individuals. The team is supposed to win and function, I don't care if they are nice people or like each other.
Every team needs a skill player who can change a game with some creativity whatever their supposed system is. I'd say it's currently one of the things TFC has been missing most but these types hardly grow on trees.
let me put it this way: DC has 5 goals in 2 league games (1 home, 1 road). Who scored those five goals: one guy -- De Rosario.
TFC has 5 goals in 2 league games (2 road games). Who scored those five goals: 3 guys -- Marosevic, Koevermans (Iro, if you think he tapped that ball in), De Guzman.
Which is more sustainable? A system that gets players involved so that you don't depend on one guy, or depending on one great player to take charge and put you on his back?
True, but now TFC has more scoring from more players -- that was missing before, when we depended on De Ro for everything. As long as we have a salary cap, we'll probably always have tradeoffs like this. The key is over time to keep the players that work and better spread out the quality of the team across all positions, rather than depending on one guy. That's why I always harp on the "yeah De Ro scored but they didn't win" point.
I actually quite like most of the starting 11 on this team now. Most of them are average or better MLS players, which is something we couldn't always say. And in most games there are now long stretches (usually whole halves) of pretty play that is constructive and useful.
There's one black hole right now, in Iro, and we could use someone in the AM position, but beyond that, I'm not sure we need a revolving door at any other positions now. Needing to improve on 2 of 11 players isn't bad.
Last edited by rocker; 08-07-2011 at 10:07 AM.
Until this team produces some offense against a non-doormat team that actually has 11 players on the field and doesn't leak goals at the back I have questions about the sustainability about our suddenly much vaunted offense.
In the end offense-defense has to be a balance. If we are committing too many players forward or playing too many guys who don't track back to help, conceding will be a problem regardless of the quality of our backline.
I'm with you Rocker.
I liked DeRo, and still believe he is a great player.
But you can't expect a team to have long-term success with one great player.
As i said already in this thread:
The team that suits up for Toronto right now is better than the one DeRo was traded from.
Pretty disappointed we didn't get the win. Honestly, TFC is pretty much 2 CB's away from being pretty competitive. I've seen teams be completely transformed when they actually do get new CB's who are capable of defending. Any time you score 2-3 goals in soccer (especially away) you should be looking at getting 3 points. I don't think we are as far away from being a good team than our results show. With a good CB pairing, these losses will become draws and these draws will become wins.
I see the point you're trying to make but DCs situation and ours are totally different. You're looking at one element, who scored the goals, without considering other factors, that DC were a man down so changed their formation, they don't have a DP as opposed to our 3 etc
At least they're entertaining. Last year, Preki would have gone into a shell for a 0-0 draw after DC had a man sent off.
Iro needs a hug and to be taken out for ice cream.
I guess we'll find out next Saturday against RSL exactly how much progress has been made
It will be a great test.
Here's hoping Frei doesn't put us behind the 8 ball and Iro doesn't gift them two goals.
Yep that is the true test. I have a feeling Winter will start Iro for the same reason he started Kocic in the CCL 2nd leg. Kid had a horrid game, he needs to prove he can bounce back.
So... was the substitute DC goalie the worst keeper you've ever seen? Holy shit he was bad.
..and the fact that he really has no other choice
Regardless of the CCL commitments I firmly believe this is one game where Winter should put out the strongest team possible.
I agree because I'd like to see how our best will do against one of the best in the league
dero wow!
Well he can use combinations of Viator, Robinson and Henry if he wanted.
Fair enough, but let's not trivialize TFC's recent results. The league "doormat" Portland crushed the LA Galaxy a few nights after our impressive comeback against them in their own barn.
If individual players didn't fit into a system Ronaldo would be playing in a pub league. It's not one or the other, every good team needs a player who can grab the game by horns and elevate his team. That doesn't mean the rest of the team can't contribute with a player like that on the field.
Dichio scored most of our goals season 1 and we pretty much depended on him for everything going forward. Does that mean he didn't fit well in any system? Of course not.
DC's isn't intentionally building a team around Dero. He's a piece of the puzzle as he should've been with TFC and as he was with Houston. With Najar and Charlie Davis out who the heck did you expect would be scoring for them?
EDIT: Oh and stop suggesting we got rid of Dero because he didn't fit in our system. We all know that's a bunch of crap. Pretty sure it's well documented the reasons Dero left, and not one single reason has to do with Winter thinking he didn't fit into our system.
Last edited by Pachuco; 08-07-2011 at 11:11 AM.
That was Borman, not JDG.
^^ Borman didn't play last night.
Yup. It was Borman. He looked disinterested.
Eck was sitting next to him and he didn't look too thrilled about the goal either. (he had just been subbed off so that might have something to do with the pout)
i am not sure i see much improvement.
i cannot recall more than one or two instances where we broke down their defence last night. i understand that after going a man down they were content to pack the defence and that made it a bit more difficult, however, with an extra man and all the possession we had, it just seemed that we lacked the creativity and talent to create many really good chances. two goals came from crosses (and a decent goalie with have dealt with both comfortably) and one on a 30 yard strike.
Do you mean sustainable in MLS? The entire DP rule is based on the idea that a couple of guys making ten times as much money as the rest of the players on the team can carry it.
So, TFC signed Kouvermans and Frings - even after all these trades what would the team look like without those two? DC didn't spend the money on a Klinsmann and then on a couple of DPs so they get DeRo.
It's good to see MLSE spending the money on TFC, but is there really much of a different philosophy at work? But really, who cares as long as it works.
From Twitter:
DCUmatchday D.C. United Matchday
Final. #DCU Reserves 2 - #TFC Reserves 1 (Davies 58', Burch 80'; Vukovic 77')
Who's Vukovic? Academy player?
Same thing. A point is a point.
They do have a DP, Branko Boscovic, he's just out for the season with an injury.
I thought we bossed the game. We were a man up so its to be expected and Ryan gave some game stats that I think support the fact that we bossed the game:
20-12 attempts on goal; 32-9 attempted crosses; 89-73% passing accuracy; 66-33% possesion..
To me, they did what was expected, and Dero and Iro ruined the party.
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