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    Quote Originally Posted by moralis View Post
    Does anyone know Dero's contact status for next season? Terminate De Guzman's contract and give De Ro DP money. I doubt this will happen, but I wish it could.

    What do you guys think?
    i would do this in a heart beat!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachuco View Post
    DId he not lead the team in asists both years he was here? Pretty sure he did. Not sure what else you could do. Pretty hard to lead the league in assists when the players around you don't know how to take two steps with the ball.
    Last year Labrocca led with assists followed by Gargan, White then DeRo. Year before Guevera and DeRo were tied for first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
    is this thread still happening?

    side note: I saw Ecks, Plata and some unknown small guy in the park today. They looked happy and peppy, like young men in love with the city they find themselves in. Let's hope it stays that way.
    That's funny. I wonder what language they were speaking? Perhaps the unknown small guy was translating. I mean, I can barely understand Ecks sometimes...

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    Weill I finally got to see the game. Can't saying anything else that has not been said about Iro. That was appalling play at any professional level.

    DeRo was DeRo. Took every chance giving to him.

    As disappointing as it was to drop two points in that game the team is getting better. Nowhere near as quick as we would like; but it is better.

  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Actually, he didn't assist that often. I believe he only had three last year, despite playing in the midfield most games.
    Which is why I specifically mentioned that he either scored himself, assisted, or had some hand in the attack. Not that he necessarily had a lot of assists.

    And he had already been given a $100,000 contract raise when he first moved here, plus a bump in year two.
    No argument here. The real debate is whether or not he deserved more or less.

    And It's not hard at all to argue against him picking our team apart. The first goal was from 25 yards, so that was the defense not closing down a shot. The second was a definitely "pick apart", if you mean the gap between Andy Iro's legs. The third was a penalty.

    Saying he picked us apart implies a game long domination, and statiscally we dominated them; their goals came off bad defending, not DeRo's creativity.

    Great goal scorer, though, for sure.
    Great points, but a mistake on the part of a defender doesn't mean much if it isn't exploited by an opposing player. That's sorta what I was getting at. It's not right just to chalk things up exclusively to bad moves on the part of the defence. You gotta give credit to the person who spots the weakness and takes advantage.
    Last edited by Cashcleaner; 08-08-2011 at 08:56 PM.
    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashcleaner View Post
    Which is why I specifically mentioned that he either scored himself, assisted, or had some hand in the attack. Not that he necessarily had a lot of assists.

    No argument here. The real debate is whether or not he deserved more or less.

    Great points, but a mistake on the part of a defender doesn't mean much if it isn't exploited by an opposing player. That's sorta what I was getting at. It's not right just to chalk things up exclusively to bad moves on the part of the defence. You gotta give credit to the person who spots the weakness and takes advantage.
    Eh, good points. I dunno if the Iro squib/rounding frey and the penalty were monumental stress occurences but he does it pretty consistently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashcleaner View Post
    Great points, but a mistake on the part of a defender doesn't mean much if it isn't exploited by an opposing player. That's sorta what I was getting at. It's not right just to chalk things up exclusively to bad moves on the part of the defence. You gotta give credit to the person who spots the weakness and takes advantage.
    In fairness, it wasn't really a case of a DC player spotting a weakness and taking advantage. It was a case of a player kicking a ball directly in the path of Andy Iro, and Iro letting it go directly through his legs.

    If the DC player spotted any weakness, my guess is it went something like this:

    "Hey, is that Andy Iro on the field for Toronto?"

    WEAKNESS SPOTTED.

    I kid, of course. And I hope the guy can have a good bounce-back game. He's had a rough go for Toronto so far.

    - Scott
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashcleaner View Post

    Actually, he only wanted traded after months of trying to negotiate with the club to get some more money from them.

    A goal is a goal. I agree that a penalty kick is almost guaranteed to reach the back of the net, but it's kinda of hard to argue that DeRo didn't have a great game on Saturday and totally picked our defence apart.



    Sorry, didn't want to go off on a DeRo tangent, but your first two remarks needed clarified.
    It did come down to him wanting to be traded regardless of the reason. I thought if anyone in the league deserved to get the DP tag, it was him, but the club decided not to give it to him, they had every right to decline his request.

    He did have a great game, he was given 3 gifts on a silver platter ( the first much less so than the last two) and he finished them, that's what good goal scorers do. I wouldn't necessarily say he picked our defense apart.

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    If Dero did that and he played with us under no controversy we'd have called him Jesus by now.

    The only reason why Dero isn't getting applauded is because he's not with us and left the club on bad terms.

    Move on, he's really good, better than most of our players, but it's over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jvanpeebles View Post
    i would do this in a heart beat!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by moralis View Post
    Does anyone know Dero's contact status for next season? Terminate De Guzman's contract and give De Ro DP money. I doubt this will happen, but I wish it could.

    What do you guys think?
    That would be a shocking turn. To imagine DeGuzman leaving his contract before the end of the year would be a surprise. To see the present management eat humble pie after a full meal of crow and re-sign DeRo would see me eat my hat.

    I wouldn't want this only because I doubt that the parties involved could put the recent past behind them.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen View Post
    In fairness, it wasn't really a case of a DC player spotting a weakness and taking advantage. It was a case of a player kicking a ball directly in the path of Andy Iro, and Iro letting it go directly through his legs.

    If the DC player spotted any weakness, my guess is it went something like this:

    "Hey, is that Andy Iro on the field for Toronto?"

    WEAKNESS SPOTTED.

    I kid, of course. And I hope the guy can have a good bounce-back game. He's had a rough go for Toronto so far.

    - Scott
    True enough on Iro.

    Unfortunately.
    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by habstfc View Post
    It did come down to him wanting to be traded regardless of the reason. I thought if anyone in the league deserved to get the DP tag, it was him, but the club decided not to give it to him, they had every right to decline his request.

    He did have a great game, he was given 3 gifts on a silver platter ( the first much less so than the last two) and he finished them, that's what good goal scorers do. I wouldn't necessarily say he picked our defense apart.
    Oh man, here you go again. You didn't watch the game. How the heck would you know if he picked the defense apart? Sorry but stuff like this drives me nuts. You are obviously very biased in your opinion to the point that you think you can make one having watched some highlights. The question isn't how he scored the goals, it's how he picked apart our defense the entire game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC USA View Post
    If Dero did that and he played with us under no controversy we'd have called him Jesus by now.

    The only reason why Dero isn't getting applauded is because he's not with us and left the club on bad terms.

    Move on, he's really good, better than most of our players, but it's over.

    This.

    And it is is most certaily happening. Marosevic might have potential but we're applauding 2 goals in 2 games that were both the very definition of "flukey". And yet we're already lauding him as a starter.

    When it's our player, it's skill. When it's the other team's player (and most definitely when it's DeRo) it's a fluke or a gift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    This.

    And it is is most certaily happening. Marosevic might have potential but we're applauding 2 goals in 2 games that were both the very definition of "flukey". And yet we're already lauding him as a starter.

    When it's our player, it's skill. When it's the other team's player (and most definitely when it's DeRo) it's a fluke or a gift.
    And when it's our coach leading the team to its worst season since inception, he's "making progress." But when it's another team's coach, who's winless in 5 but still firmly in the playoffs, he's "sucking."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachuco View Post
    Oh man, here you go again. You didn't watch the game. How the heck would you know if he picked the defense apart? Sorry but stuff like this drives me nuts. You are obviously very biased in your opinion to the point that you think you can make one having watched some highlights. The question isn't how he scored the goals, it's how he picked apart our defense the entire game.
    Well I watched it. Twice actually...and to suggest that dero picked apart the def is just as out there as commenting on a game you didn't watch.

    He scored on the chances given to him. He didn't give anyone fits. On several occasions he lost the ball trying to do too much and he also unleashed a couple of his "I can score from anywhere" 40 yard attempts on goal.

    He was far from mediocre but far from dominating too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    This.

    And it is is most certaily happening. Marosevic might have potential but we're applauding 2 goals in 2 games that were both the very definition of "flukey". And yet we're already lauding him as a starter.

    When it's our player, it's skill. When it's the other team's player (and most definitely when it's DeRo) it's a fluke or a gift.
    And if De Ro scores those two goals Marosevic scored, but against TFC, De Ro is a God and we should have kept him

    But all De Ro's goals are his effort alone.

    And when TFC gets a win in the NCC or Champions League, it's because the other team is not as good, not because of coaching or formation or whatever.
    Last edited by rocker; 08-09-2011 at 11:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
    Well I watched it. Twice actually...and to suggest that dero picked apart the def is just as out there as commenting on a game you didn't watch.

    He scored on the chances given to him. He didn't give anyone fits. On several occasions he lost the ball trying to do too much and he also unleashed a couple of his "I can score from anywhere" 40 yard attempts on goal.

    He was far from mediocre but far from dominating too.
    Well I couldn't disagree more. He was playing as a lone man up front with barely any support while his team had 10 man on the field. He took 9 shots and 5 of those were on net. Beat defenders quite easily and even made Frings look silly a couple of times.

    In my opinion, he dismantled our defense all by himself. If that was Plata everyone would be talking about how he destroys defenses

    It's not a coincidence that the outspoken one's against Dero leaving are the same one's trying to put down his performance. That's fine, I get it. I'm not terribly excited about JDG's goal from 65 yards out where the goalie dove with his hands behind his back. Other's call it the greatest goal they have ever seen.

    But what bothers me is when someone who didn't watch the game is actually trying to contradict someone's opinion of how they saw a player perform throughout the entire game. Because they watched the highlights? give me a break.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachuco View Post
    You are obviously very biased in your opinion.
    Just because someone doesn't agree with you on one issue does not make them "obviously biased."

    I have no opinion about DeRosario as a person one way or the other, and know we would be better as a team with him than without him, but I agree with his stance on his performance in this game. I also have sympathy for the team in having to deal with him.

    People are capable at looking at issues from more than one angle, you know. We're not all just acting on autonomic, tribal instinct, as this comment implies, and this shit is beneath you.

    This board is about debate; if you stifle it with ad hominem attacks upon those ideas, you're doing everyone around you a disservice.

    I used to come on here a lot. I post much less frequently now, becuase frankly people often aren't here to discuss football, but to ensure that everyone knows they have contempt for the intelligence of others and, in a few cases, actual contempt for the person.

    Maybe we could all just knock it off and be civil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocker View Post
    And if De Ro scores those two goals Marosevic scored, but against TFC, De Ro is a God and we should have kept him

    But all De Ro's goals are his effort alone.
    Nobody said that. Instead, what we are seeing is rationalization of DeRo's goals but no acknowledgement that Marosevic's goal came on a silver platter. You can't create a narrative out of thin air, it already exists and that is what we are pointing to.

    And when TFC gets a win in the NCC or Champions League, it's because the other team is not as good, not because of coaching or formation or whatever.
    Now you're just removing all context altogether. If you honestly believe we beat Real Esteli because of tactics and formations and not because they are basically a semi-pro team with a roster with salaries that are literally a fraction of ours, then carry on.

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    yes they were a crap team but cmon man, lets be real here, they had a coach who told them waht to do and how to do it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Nobody said that. Instead, what we are seeing is rationalization of DeRo's goals but no acknowledgement that Marosevic's goal came on a silver platter. You can't create a narrative out of thin air, it already exists and that is what we are pointing to.

    Now you're just removing all context altogether. If you honestly believe we beat Real Esteli because of tactics and formations and not because they are basically a semi-pro team with a roster with salaries that are literally a fraction of ours, then carry on.
    No acknowledgement that Marosevic's goals came on a silver platter? There's a fucking thread with people saying exactly that. I guess some people don't read the whole board......

    On the second point -- you obviously didn't get the irony of my example, so I won't explain it further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachuco View Post
    Well I couldn't disagree more. He was playing as a lone man up front with barely any support while his team had 10 man on the field. He took 9 shots and 5 of those were on net. Beat defenders quite easily and even made Frings look silly a couple of times.

    In my opinion, he dismantled our defense all by himself. If that was Plata everyone would be talking about how he destroys defenses

    It's not a coincidence that the outspoken one's against Dero leaving are the same one's trying to put down his performance. That's fine, I get it. I'm not terribly excited about JDG's goal from 65 yards out where the goalie dove with his hands behind his back. Other's call it the greatest goal they have ever seen.

    But what bothers me is when someone who didn't watch the game is actually trying to contradict someone's opinion of how they saw a player perform throughout the entire game. Because they watched the highlights? give me a break.
    Well I am a DeRo supporter from way back and I agree he had a great match....but I don't agree that he picked anything apart. And I watched the entire match. He played well, yes, but pouncing on a ball that was mis-played by a defender is what he should be doing. His move on Frei to get around him wasn't textbook and took skill, but again Frei commited and he reacted and slotted it into the goal. His first goal was a good shot, but by no means was it a stellar DeRo strike....just like JDG's wasn't the be all and end all of goals....and the third was a PK, which Frei never saves anyway.

    DeRo had his moments throughout the game, no doubt and did make Frings look silly at times...but he also was defended at times well by TFC. Even Iro(go figure) had some good stops on DeRo. DeRo wasn't dancing around players the way you are making it seem....

    I have no bias against DeRo, you can take my observation as you please....but IMHO his performance was a bit overrated...amplified by our poor backline.
    Follow me...... https://twitter.com/#!/aGeRoO76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Just because someone doesn't agree with you on one issue does not make them "obviously biased."

    I have no opinion about DeRosario as a person one way or the other, and know we would be better as a team with him than without him, but I agree with his stance on his performance in this game. I also have sympathy for the team in having to deal with him.

    People are capable at looking at issues from more than one angle, you know. We're not all just acting on autonomic, tribal instinct, as this comment implies, and this shit is beneath you.

    This board is about debate; if you stifle it with ad hominem attacks upon those ideas, you're doing everyone around you a disservice.

    I used to come on here a lot. I post much less frequently now, becuase frankly people often aren't here to discuss football, but to ensure that everyone knows they have contempt for the intelligence of others and, in a few cases, actual contempt for the person.

    Maybe we could all just knock it off and be civil.
    Did you read my post and who I was replying to? You tell me how someone can come on here and challenged someone's point of view on how a player played in this particular game when they didn't watch the game? you tell me how someone can do that without having come to a biased conclusion on their previous feelings on the player? And may I add that person came in here guns blazzing insulting people who had a difference of opinion on a game he didn't even watch.

    You are trying to make this argument something that it isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachuco View Post
    You are trying to make this argument something that it isn't.
    That's a fucking hilarious reply to Jloome, considering you've -- time and again -- not even bothered to read the messages I wrote clearly, and then you argue -- time and again -- different points and then make it look like I argued those points.

    You always make arguments into something they aren't.

    I think it's time we all just called a truce on this thread and moved on.

    And I'm now moving Roogsy and Pachuco into my block list (where I moved boban a few months ago). It's not even worth the trouble. So don't even bother replying to my messages, as I won't see your replies.

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    DeRo did what a good sniper should do, and he buried his chances. I also agree that 2 of his 3 goals were gifted to him by Iro. I think that was painfully obvious to those of us that watched the match unfold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ageroo View Post
    Well I am a DeRo supporter from way back and I agree he had a great match....but I don't agree that he picked anything apart. And I watched the entire match. He played well, yes, but pouncing on a ball that was mis-played by a defender is what he should be doing. His move on Frei to get around him wasn't textbook and took skill, but again Frei commited and he reacted and slotted it into the goal. His first goal was a good shot, but by no means was it a stellar DeRo strike....just like JDG's wasn't the be all and end all of goals....and the third was a PK, which Frei never saves anyway.
    I have to disagree...

    The funny thing is, everything you mentioned, is kind of 'picking apart' a team...

    You don't need to run 1000-miles, take on 100-guys 1-v-1, and hold the ball 60% of the time to pick a team apart...

    What you need to do, and make it count when you get the chance...

    He had a clean look at goal: he hit it hard enough to beat Frei for 1...

    Frei committed on a 1-v-1: he moved to the side enough and slotted in home for 2...

    On a PK down by a goal late in the game: he was calm and scored for 3...

    I'd rather have that, than a guy making 60-great moves, 15-great runs, and 10-shots at goal - only to score none... That's useless in the end if the ball never ends up in the net...

    Just like JDG. It wasn't a post-and-in shot, but JDG is smart & experienced enough to know "...this keeper has been shit today..." so he hit it hard and true, but MADE SURE to hit the target instead of going for the perfect post-and-in shot that could (most times does) go wide...

    Goals win games. If you can exploit 3-moments for 3-goals in a match - you've done a pretty decent job dominating where it counts, the scoreboard...
    "...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."


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    Quote Originally Posted by rocker View Post
    That's a fucking hilarious reply to Jloome, considering you've -- time and again -- not even bothered to read the messages I wrote clearly, and then you argue -- time and again -- different points and then make it look like I argued those points.

    You always make arguments into something they aren't.

    I think it's time we all just called a truce on this thread and moved on.

    And I'm now moving Roogsy and Pachuco into my block list (where I moved boban a few months ago). It's not even worth the trouble. So don't even bother replying to my messages, as I won't see your replies.
    Talk about generalization. I could say the exact same thing about you. I'm sorry that you have a hard time having a discussion on a forum with people who disagree with you. I'm fine with it, this board would be useless for me if all I wanted was for people to pat me on the back with every opinion I have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    That would be a shocking turn. To imagine DeGuzman leaving his contract before the end of the year would be a surprise. To see the present management eat humble pie after a full meal of crow and re-sign DeRo would see me eat my hat.

    I wouldn't want this only because I doubt that the parties involved could put the recent past behind them.
    It's for reasons like this that everyone should buy edible hats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McCartney View Post
    I have to disagree...

    The funny thing is, everything you mentioned, is kind of 'picking apart' a team...

    You don't need to run 1000-miles, take on 100-guys 1-v-1, and hold the ball 60% of the time to pick a team apart...

    What you need to do, and make it count when you get the chance...

    He had a clean look at goal: he hit it hard enough to beat Frei for 1...

    Frei committed on a 1-v-1: he moved to the side enough and slotted in home for 2...

    On a PK down by a goal late in the game: he was calm and scored for 3...

    I'd rather have that, than a guy making 60-great moves, 15-great runs, and 10-shots at goal - only to score none... That's useless in the end if the ball never ends up in the net...

    Just like JDG. It wasn't a post-and-in shot, but JDG is smart & experienced enough to know "...this keeper has been shit today..." so he hit it hard and true, but MADE SURE to hit the target instead of going for the perfect post-and-in shot that could (most times does) go wide...

    Goals win games. If you can exploit 3-moments for 3-goals in a match - you've done a pretty decent job dominating where it counts, the scoreboard...
    I'll just add that he actually drew the PK by beating like 3 players. Another time he beat a few players again, found himself 1 on 1 with Frei but missed wide. I call stuff like that picking apart the defense. I'm not sure how many times you have to beat players and how many times you have to score before someone acknowledges you picked their team apart. Especially considering he had no support with his team being a man down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    DeRo did what a good sniper should do, and he buried his chances. I also agree that 2 of his 3 goals were gifted to him by Iro. I think that was painfully obvious to those of us that watched the match unfold.
    But that is a harsh condition to make on any offensive player considering almost any goal, especially in MLS, comes on the heels of a defensive error!

    We don't have Maradona or Messi taking on 10 players, making them look silly and scoring on their own effort. This is MLS. Where poaching goals is where you get results. Where defensive errors are what lead to goals. (It is also why reducing those defensive errors is what makes better teams in MLS rather than trying to outscore the opposition, something Winter has not learned yet.)

    Our goals didn't come from "errors"? The difference in this league is a "sniper" as you call it that makes the most of his opportunities. Danny K obviously has brought that quality and I think he will do well. But so has DeRo.

    The biggest problem we all had with Barrett was despite receiving those "gifts" time and again, he flubbed them. Nobody was expecting him to be beating players one on one but at least bury the opportunities that are created for you by whatever means, including defensive lapses.

    Calling them "gifts" as somehow detracting from the value of the goals is hypocritical considering the few goals even we score come the same way for the most part.

 

 

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