Yes
No
If the stadium were somewhere else, you'd have a different SSH mix. But it's hard to argue that there would be a larger number of SSHs if BMO were somewhere else.
If BMO were in Mississauga or Richmond Hill or something, all we'd talk about would be how the team is dying because of the suburban location.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
To me there is absolutely no question that the low point in the attractiveness and quality of the football was last year. A lot of season ticket holders I know who follow the team pretty closely but not as much as people on this board say the same thing.
I think this is part of the problem: the average Toronto fan doesn't understand (or probably want) possession football. At a game a month or so ago someone behind me yelled "enough of this passing shit." I think that about sums it up. Even Barcelona can be boring at times when it's just knocking the ball around playground keep away style. People who grew up with hockey which is always direct don't understand this approach. That's Winter's main problem I think. Maybe we should start an "ole" every time we complete a string of passes....
In terms of the game experience, etc, most people I know still think a TFC game is the most fun of any sporting event in the city, including casual fans and hockey fans. Mostly because of the supporters sections, and a good amount of beer. I remember when beer was the only thing that made the football on the pitch tolerable...
^ i agree with the football attractiveness bit, but the thing most people need to remember is that sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward.
the problem last year (even the first game against vancouver when we were just passing back and forth between frei and the backline) was that we didnt fucking move forward.
Really? Hockey is "always direct?" I think those of us who grew up with hockey have seen plenty of different styles from the most boring (but effective) traps to the wide-open 80's Oilers. We know the difference between losing 1-0 in a boring game and losing 5-4 in a wide-open game.Originally Posted by Canary10
And we've seen plenty of lousy hockey teams build into good teams but it's always been done by defence first.
I hope TFC turn into a great team, but sometimes it sounds like an ECHL team telling their fans they're going to be 80's Oilers or the 70's Canadiens - if only they can get players of that ability.
Styles are different for sure, but none are based on passing the puck around behind your own blueline , back to your goalie, etc and waiting for openings. There isn't a hockey equivalent to how we're trying to play. Hockey in comparison is all about going forward.
Actually, the population of downtown Toronto has also been exploding, with all the condos that have been built. All within an easy distance of BMO Field, and a demographic that in terms of disposable income, time constraints, and potential interest, could be good for TFC. However, they likely want to be entertained, have plenty of options of things to do, and little long-term loyalty to any specific sports team.
Central location might not be the best for folks from the suburbs, but it's more or less equal for most suburbs. Put the stadium way in a Western suburb, an people from the Eastern ones are going to have a harder time than today getting to the stadium, and vice versa.
As it stands now, it sits on a major roadway and is easily accessible by the transit systems that serve city dwellers and suburban ones. I can't think of a better location than where it is.
Also, stadiums in the burbs have commonly had poor arts fences in the MLS and the few in the cities have been much better.
Last year was horrible, but I haven't found most of this year much better to be honest. We've tried playing possession football for the most part and failed. I've found the majority of games this year to be dull. (and yes, I do understand what to look for - I've been watching the game for over two decades)
Maybe not passing all the way back to the goalie, but there's a big difference between a posession-based hockey team and a dump and chase team.
Maybe there isn't a hockey team using the equivalent of what TFC is trying right now, but some have in the past. It's just not an easy style to be successful with.
How can you compare any hockey team with TFC, in hockey there is an offensive blue line that forces possession of the puck in the offensive end, noone will purposely pass the puck out of the zone unless it is the defence.
I don't think a hockey influence has anything to do with it.
It's all about people's general impatience, which I've seen that for every coach we ever had. Watch the teams in year one and two lump the ball up field had people around me tearing their hair out. In the end all the losing catches up and the message people are really communicating is "just fucking win already".
As for the complaints about the "possession style", well i think a lot of that has yet to come to fruition and the backline outside of Eckersley lacks the ability to pass decisively. Keeping possession is one thing, but when you have a simple pass to move the ball up the field or one that moves the ball backwards, move the ball forwards FFS.
Geez Pook - I think you must be on some other planet...
The equation goes like this:
4 years of team being totally screwed by Mo + years of relentless price increases + no appreciable fan appreciation ;-) + this rebuilding year + NO WAITING LIST WHAT-SO-EVER + Terrible economy + only reasonably priced tickets are Southend or the nosebleeds + no aftermarket for tickets + stupid fucking white scarves + clueless FO = 10,000 STH TOPS!!
Mark my words - announced attendance next year will be 12 Thousand:
10,000 STH (6,000 show up) + 2,000 one-time Travel Zoo customers. I actually think I am an optimist - they will probably be lucky to hit this mark... most people in the overpriced blues, greys and reds are just regular folk - most of them have figured it out this year that they are getting hosed - they just need to read their travelzoo emails - they won't be back - only the $20 per seat folk have a reason to renew...
Would you pay $50 or $110 per seat, per game, every game - I thought not...
That being said, I don't think anyone is going to try to tie the can to Winter for this year's upcoming STH debacle - next year definitely, but even Anselmi won't try this year... everyone is aware of the equation listed above... Anselmi would not get away with it and it would probably destroy the team for good.
Last edited by tiberius; 08-05-2011 at 09:43 PM.
Wow Tiberius, you're a real bundle of joy!
Speaking of joy - I think that the team is improving and I am sure that they will do just fine next year! It is the ticket sales that are going to be grim - TFC FO blew right throught their whole humongous waiting list last year - there is absolutely nothing left for them to fall back on this year to bail them out.
My main point is - Winter is not to blame for this, nor will he be held accoutable for it this year - this is part of the overall sport ticket collapse that Whoop posted about in another thread...
http://www.slate.com/id/2300802
Do you have proof that they have blown through their waiting list? If not, then it's just exaggeration. Attendance may marginally go down next year of 5 years of failure, but there will still a large attendance for home games.
The proof is first hand accounts of posters on this site who joined the red waiting list this past off season that got calls about season tickets.
Moderator
Did they get calls about season tickets, or those stupid packs? I'm on the Red list, and I got called about the packs last year. Haven't gotten a call about season tickets though.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
My friend was on the red and got called for seasons. Don't worry, something tells me that between team performance, pricing of tickets and the economy more broadly, you'll have your choice of seating next year.
Those were undoubtedly for the expensive seats dark greys or higher. The waiting list is real, mayby not as it was but there is a waiting list despite what some people think. Shakes is your proof.
Last edited by habstfc; 08-08-2011 at 06:29 PM.
Umm...my boss registered last year on the red list and got a call in the offseason to buy season tickets. He declined.
If there's a waiting list, it's one of those where the night club leaves people lined up outside to make it seem like there is demand.
If there is one thing that couldn't be more obvious is that demand for this team had dropped quite a bit last year. What's even more obvious is that this year will be much rougher on the renewals. I predict Shakes gets a call this year
EDIT: By the way Shakes, have you put yourself on the waiting list for supporter's seats only or something?
Last edited by Pachuco; 08-08-2011 at 07:35 PM.
Moderator
Now you've got me wondering if maybe my memory is just failing me. I have no recollection of ever being offered season tickets - I do recall having a lengthy conversation with a rep last year, who kept trying to sell me three of those ticket packs (that would have amounted to every TFC home game).Umm...my boss registered last year on the red list and got a call in the offseason to buy season tickets. He declined.
If there's a waiting list, it's one of those where the night club leaves people lined up outside to make it seem like there is demand.
If there is one thing that couldn't be more obvious is that demand for this team had dropped quite a bit last year. What's even more obvious is that this year will be much rougher on the renewals. I predict Shakes gets a call this year
EDIT: By the way Shakes, have you put yourself on the waiting list for supporter's seats only or something?
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
I'm on the red list but I don't recall getting offered season ticket either... MLSE don't like me! lol!
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Presumably they have a way of targeting their cold calls. In your account manager, which sections have you said you are interested in getting seasons tickets for?
I'm not speaking for shakes but why wasn't he called? What seats was your boss offered? I can tell you that when I went to pick mine last year with about a week left there weren't many seats left. I relize every day more become available with people switching to other seats but I can tell you the pickings were very slim, I would guess less than 500 or so mostly in dark greys and reds. Some people are hamstringed by cost of course and aren't willing to pay for reds or dark greys or med greys etc. but just because some on the list only want cheap seats doesn't make the list less valid.Umm...my boss registered last year on the red list and got a call in the offseason to buy season tickets. He declined.
If there's a waiting list, it's one of those where the night club leaves people lined up outside to make it seem like there is demand.
If there is one thing that couldn't be more obvious is that demand for this team had dropped quite a bit last year. What's even more obvious is that this year will be much rougher on the renewals. I predict Shakes gets a call this year
EDIT: By the way Shakes, have you put yourself on the waiting list for supporter's seats only or something?
This is why Ive been saying all year, only results will impress me and they have failed to deliver, again. That should be the minimum expectation, being competitive and in the the playoff hunt, maybe making it too.
What they have put on the field this year far too often has been disgraceful.
83% in favour, 17% not. 156 votes. Clearly, the board has spoken and approves of Winter at the time of the July results.
Both the majority and minority positions have been stated. I eagerly await next month's Winter poll
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! lol
Both the majority and minority positions have been stated. I eagerly await next month's Winter poll
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
83% in favour, 17% not. 156 votes. Clearly, the board has spoken and approves of Winter at the time of the July results.
Both the majority and minority positions have been stated. I eagerly await next month's Winter poll
A majority also voted in the Republicans in the last election.
Just sayin...
I put myself on the waiting list around the end of 2009. I got a call for partial season packages in March 2010 I believe and bought some. In fall 2010 I got a call for a full season package. I bought 2 a couple of weeks before the MLS final (got 2 tickets for the final with my packages). When I went to get my tickets, there was barely anything left, nothing in any of the cheaper areas. I ended up getting dark greys. Only the north end really had any seats.
Wait list has to be down given that absence of Marlies' packs.
That said, I think there will be a real effort to increase the number of season tickets sold. Money in the bank is better than none at all. A removal of the season ticket "cap" would help explain why there were rumoured calls to purchase tickets after the lists have been exhausted.
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